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View Full Version : Is it possible to design a "cool" dating simulator?



BlackShipsFillt
07-12-2011, 09:05 PM
Dating simulators are inherently icky.

At best they are a way to simulate the approval of a member of the opposite sex without him/her (read "her") having the inconvenience of free will (or much character/intelligence to get in the way).

At worst they present members of the opposite sex (read "women") as a series of minor challenges to overcome in order to guarantee her sexual consent. As in: women are puzzles to be completed, whether it be slaying monsters in The Witcher or rubbing oil on her back in Sex Beach Resort 5.

And then there is the slippery slope into rape simulators, which aren't theoretically all that different (since unlocking sex through a trivial series of tasks is not all that different to taking sex through a series of rape-related tasks. In either case the character actually had no choice. Although one is more rapey and obviously far far far more icky).

That said, how could a dating simulator be cool?

Obviously removing the hard-core sex helps. Otherwise you're just marketing it to 13 year old boys and in which case you may as well make a straight up dating simulator.

What about replacing the humans with dinosaurs? Dino-Dating sounds kind of awesome and not at all sexy. Plus the bonus is that the 13 year old boys still love it (because the smart ones also love dinos).

What about building in a battle system? Of course this can't come off like domestic abuse, or like rape (again). Could it be a non-violent battle system? Like using poetry as a weapon?

Would it be cooler if it were gender swapped? Most women gamers aren't as interested in earning male approval... not in the simplistic way most man gamers do anyway. So there wouldn't really be a market for a game about a woman convincing a bunch of really easily manipulated men to pay for her dinners.

I'm sure there is a "cool" game there somewhere. I hope I'm not getting this all wrong and unwittingly writing down a bunch of chauvinistic sentiments (I mean the point here obviously is to parody sexist games).

Fengol
08-12-2011, 10:17 AM
I think dating simulators fail because they either fall into the edutainment category of games or the creepy rape-sim. They're either trying to "teach" you how to interact with a member of the opposite sex with a hidden progress bar and there's no real fun or longevity in these games. The other kind you don't care what you do cause you're em... playing to watch the cutscenes.

I'm a little confused BlackShipsFillt about where you want to go. It sounds like you're talking about the dating sim purely as a mechanic but you're prepared to go crazy with everything else.

I think the problem with dating sims is that they boil the experience down to only between the player and a single "opponent". If the experience was widened so there was a wider audience of people to interact and other activities you had to complete even the normal mechanics would become a lot more interesting. The Sims shows this off beautifully where you have to juggle relationships with lots of people, some of whom don't like each other or are openly hostile to you.

What I think would be fun would be to play a Leisure Suit Larry type game where you have to try date multiple "opponents" and either pick just 1 or struggle to balance while being "a playa". What would also be a factor would be having to keep appearances with non-dating friends i.e. the boys, the gym, etc. "Opponents" can reject you if you spend too much time with a certain social circle ("What!? You're going to Marc's house to play D&D again!?") and social circles can reject you if you spend too much effort on your "opponent" ("Dude, you totally gotta lose your chick. She's a drag").

I think dating sims can become a lot more interesting and complicated if it includes the player's wider social commitments.

BlackShipsFillt
08-12-2011, 11:35 AM
:) I stated quite clearly about what I wanted to do in the last line and in the title. "Coolness" is the goal. And I think an ironic dating sim that parodies the genre would be cool (because dating sims are so very disgusting).

On the other hand, if its a question of fun, I think you've suggested some good ideas. I like the idea of it being a broader social simulation that dating is only one part of. That there be subtle strategies to not ****ing people off while getting others to like you (much like in the Sims). That there is a cost to dating certain people or ignoring others. That the repercussions of your actions actually require some understanding of the (simplified) social system in the game.

And I like the idea that going over to a bud and playing D&D could be a social choice (but maybe one that recharges some other stat like awesomeness, or magical ability?).

But my concern with dating sims is not as much the gameplay as the flavor. Leisure Suit Larry is massively, and famously, sexist. Sexism is basically its selling point. And it is not nearly ironic enough to get away with it, especially the later games.

Basically Leisure Suit Larry is really uncool. Not nearly as bad as an actual dating sim, but it's not straddling a line either: It is properly sexist, and my stated goal here was to avoid that (or at least to be "cool" which implies it should not **** intelligent people off, as sexism does or should)

Another thing that might be fun to do is simulate the awkwardness of inexperienced dating. It might actually be kind of charming, maybe. If kind of Cactus Squid-style (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X22GkSwm6F4&feature=player_embedded) you were presented with mini-games of things like holding hands or trying to give a compliment, and Meshof-style (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RN7QTIyydLQ) these tasks were made difficult and disorientating. And if there were a bit of a Sims social simulation going on on top of this, that it wasn't just about dating it was also about making friends and learning to navigate social challenges, it could be interesting perhaps? Certainly weird and arty anyway.

The other thing I would be interested to try is theme some of the dating conflict as JRPG turn based battles, kind of like how Serious Sam Random Encounter was a creatively westernized JRPG, it might be interesting to do a westernized dating sim, but with a battle system that includes buying your opponent presents and making them mix tapes and paying them compliments etc... (I know I mentioned this before, but I still think it is kind of cool, or could be if done right)

And you should probably be able to play the game as both a man and woman? A woman's experience in any kind of dating sim would be the more interesting, and less rapey, experience.

Fengol
08-12-2011, 04:57 PM
The way I think you could avoid sexism is to have the people in the game stay the same from game to game but allow the player to try different genders, likes and dislikes which will cause people to re-act differently.

Actually, the main way you avoid sexism is to create NPCs who are deep and who'll react according to their depth to different actions by the player. If a female character's only responses to player actions are as a sex object, she'll be treated like a sex object. An NPC might want affection, ask to go on dates and require gifts but can find the player too clingy or obsessive if they're constantly interacted with and turn frigid or even break up with the player.

I think an interesting game dynamic would be to have the NPC of the player's desire interact with other NPCs who would allow take them on dates or get them the occasional gift. The idea being to allow a sense of jealously to develop in the player and then give him options of dealing with it. What if the player could dump the NPC as supposed to the typical failing the game when the NPC dumps you?

01DT!m3r
09-12-2011, 04:07 AM
I thought a fun way for a game like this would be resource management.such as managing time and money.for insttance players might need to split their time between work,hygeine time,and date time.work to get money,hygeine to stay healthy and attractive and dating enough time during the week .dates could cost money that you get from working.so the player has the constant balancing act of managingg the resources.of course to be fun other mechanics will be needed to add depth.

Flangenimblick
19-12-2011, 08:02 AM
http://www.gamespot.com/love-plus/videos/gamespot-reports-gamer-dating-6347837