View Full Version : Byt in tyd Demo
kolle_hond
01-04-2008, 12:12 AM
This is what I have been doing in my spare time for a while now.
It is a co-op point & click adventure game based roughly on a book I wrote waaay back in 2002.
At the moment you cannot switch characters so it is multiplayer only. Player 1 uses the mouse and Player 2 uses the arrow keys and enter. There is also no save feature yet but the demo is so short you won't need it.
This is my first serious attempt at making a game so I hope you guys enjoy it.
http://kollehond.gmobile.co.za/file/byt%20in%20tyd%20demo.exe
FuzzYspo0N
01-04-2008, 12:27 AM
haha i must say i was quite amused! i liked the concept in general i just think moonwalking dogs are amusing... :D:D:D
and the gui graphics looked familiar so it kinda made me chuckle. I think the game play aspect works out ok, i would just give more information to the player. the feeling of, um, ok what now should not be apparent in the very first room :)
aside from that, and the graphics i think its cool. :) i played it through no problems
Afflict
01-04-2008, 01:10 AM
I'm curious as to the style of game you would like to create?
kolle_hond
01-04-2008, 10:53 AM
I'm glad that no one has had any problems yet, It is supposed to be a funny game that is very story driven so I'll make sure to pay more attention to giving the player more information. I just don't want It to be too easy at the start. You should think a bit, like in most adventure games. Also I'm actually surprised that you managed to play through the game, I thought that some of the puzzles were maybe too difficult. Oh, and lastly, there is no sound at the moment but that is next on my list of things to do. And the graphics... I only recently did some tutorials on drawing sprites so I will see when I come to it that I do some shading(as there is none atm lol).
Edit: Oh and the background for the menu and the cursors were actually made by you fuzzyspoon :D I found it on these forums a long time ago, should I put a thanks in the credits?
Gazza_N
01-04-2008, 11:22 AM
NEAT! I'm glad that you've finally started work on this! It was always a kicking concept. :D
I'll echo Fuzzy's comment on the lack of information - perhaps description text that appears when you hover the cursor over interaction items would be a good idea. I also found the keyboard cursor to be a little finicky due to the lack of diagonal movement.
Otherwise, it's a great start, and I look forward to seeing where it goes! :)
Afflict
01-04-2008, 11:51 AM
If it's an adventure game why not just use AGS?
Gazza_N
01-04-2008, 11:59 AM
Because it's a two-player adventure game, which is probably easier to implement in GM. You'd need to do quite a bit of complex scripting in AGS to get the same results interface-wise.
FuzzYspo0N
01-04-2008, 01:35 PM
Edit: Oh and the background for the menu and the cursors were actually made by you fuzzyspoon I found it on these forums a long time ago, should I put a thanks in the credits?
you can if you really want, i wont hold it against you. if it were me using anyone stuff i would but thats just me :)
if you got it from www.owned.co.za/fail (my blog) ther is also a new dialog thing there you might like.
Anyway, AGS like gazza said would make it harder . Although i dont quite get the two player part, i dont have a friend who will play with me. it should be optional imho (".)
:)
Liszt
02-04-2008, 02:46 PM
What style of music do you want? Interesting game. Perhaps I may interest you in a rag. I was thinking about a leifmotiv and a variations on that, with our principal theme on a harpsichord.
I need you to message me. I nee to know what cue's you have, situations, planets ect and compose a track for each of them. I think I'm going to stick to MIDI.
Kensei
02-04-2008, 02:56 PM
Nice first draft, kolle_hond
makes me wish I had my sister next to me to break- er, I mean test it :D
I wonder if it would be better to do the speech bubble so it shows up at the top of the screen or something - because at the moment it appears to be part of the background and it seems a bit off when I can walk over the speech bubble.
So far, it looks awesome :D
kolle_hond
03-04-2008, 11:34 PM
I wonder if it would be better to do the speech bubble so it shows up at the top of the screen or something - because at the moment it appears to be part of the background and it seems a bit off when I can walk over the speech bubble.
I'll definitely look into that.
List of priorities for this game(i.e. the order in which I intend to do the work)
1. character switching (It will make the game playable single player and in multiplayer both players will then be able to play as the other character)
2. Hint system (the cursor will glow green when over a interactable object)
3. speech
4. sound
5. redo graphics
6. more levels
If you have a good reason why I should do one of the later stuff first tell me and I might hear you out.
Afflict
03-04-2008, 11:44 PM
you can if you really want, i wont hold it against you. if it were me
Anyway, AGS like gazza said would make it harder . Although i dont quite get the two player part, i dont have a friend who will play with me. it should be optional imho (".)
:)
Adventure games tend to be played by one person at a time. So having it Blackwell Unbound where you can change between characters, (and have different abilities etc) they follow each other around automatically...
Secondly keyboard scripting topics have been covered in AGS so I don't think it will be that hard many ags games you can control the character with the keyboard... adding mouse support to a second character, well should be possible.
Hmmm...
Thaumaturge
04-04-2008, 05:41 PM
On the matter of the second player, why not have that player be controlled directly by the keyboard, rather than by a keyboard-controlled mouse cursor? It's probably a little more work, but I think that it's likely to feel more natural than does moving the mouse cursor with the keyboard. Interaction could be achieved using button presses when the player is near an appropriate object.
That said, if you do go with this, be careful of your object placement when the second player character is used - objects placed too close together, or one above the other, could be problematic.
Adventure games tend to be played by one person at a time.
I'm sure that I've heard a number of times of people playing adventure games together with others - aside from the enjoyment of sharing the experience, I daresay that having more than one person working on a puzzle is advantageous, and discussing a puzzle could potentially be fun, I think.
How often such games are played singly as opposed to collaboratively, I don't know - I imagine that single-play is more common, but by how much I do not know.
Afflict
05-04-2008, 11:50 AM
I dont know of any multiplayer adventures... :/
The point has been largely discussed, anyway I remember playing the old school adv games with my brother back in the day.. That rocked!
I just dont think you can work together on the puzzles as the two seperate characters on the same computer... (or rather feel its pointless..) It would of probably be less enjoyable if the one player is off on his own tangent, and I need his character to solve the puzzle.
Just some concerns, or possible speed bumps I foresee.
Anyway, I am curious as to how its going to be used in the puzzle design. Keep it up Kolle_Hond any progress update?
kolle_hond
05-04-2008, 06:11 PM
On the matter of the second player, why not have that player be controlled directly by the keyboard, rather than by a keyboard-controlled mouse cursor?
the thing is that I would actually rather reccomend the second player playing with something like a joystick or a gamepad but for the sake of testing I made keyboard controls. I also want you to be able to choose the character you want to play with so it is easier if both are controlled in the same manner.
kolle_hond
05-04-2008, 06:19 PM
Anyway, I am curious as to how its going to be used in the puzzle design. Keep it up Kolle_Hond any progress update?
I havn't had that much time to work on it this week but I have been playing around with switching controls of the cursors. Unfortunately it is still really buggy. Liszt also made me some schweet background music so you can expect that. And before I forget I am also adding a hint system(when enabled the cursor will show a green glow when you hold it over a object that has to be clicked on/ use a object on. I also saw that the foodbrix sprite is a bit difficult to put back so I will do something about that.
Thaumaturge
05-04-2008, 06:22 PM
I dont know of any multiplayer adventures... :/
The point has been largely discussed, anyway I remember playing the old school adv games with my brother back in the day.. That rocked!
I don't know about multiplayer adventures; I was thinking about situations such as you describe when you write about you and your brother playing together.
You make a good point about having one player wander off, but I do think that, with careful level and puzzle planning, this could work.
I'm not sure how well the same puzzles would work in a single-player version, however - it might be a better idea to make this game a pure co-op game...
If not, it might be worth considering altering two-player puzzles into one-player puzzles for the single-player version, either removing the call for the second character or converting them into sequences that call for alternation between one character and the other (albeit preferably not with too short an interval).
Afflict
05-04-2008, 06:48 PM
Don't get me wrong, I'm totally for the idea of co op. :)
I'm just curious as to how much different a two player puzzle can be from a one player puzzle. Eg: Referencing games like DOTT (Day of the Tentacle) Where you had multiple characters you can control, and do things with. I think its a pretty effective model to do what needs to be done, so I dont think any puzzles would need to change between co-op and single player.
I reckon knowing what puzzles you are going to have in the game are crucial for you to develop the game efficiently, or how you going to tackle the co-op...
Liszt
05-04-2008, 07:38 PM
Liszt also made me some schweet background music so you can expect that...
Aw, thanx Kolle!
Improvements:
- Graphics
- Gameplay
- Animation
I may suggest that you ask other developers to help you with the graphics. In the end, this is community developing and it would be cool if other artist's can help with the game. (For example, I did the music).
More levels would only mean MORE MUSIC!!! I can hear variations on the original theme already!!!
Great stuff so far!!! Keep it up!!!
Thaumaturge
05-04-2008, 11:22 PM
I'm just curious as to how much different a two player puzzle can be from a one player puzzle. Eg: Referencing games like DOTT (Day of the Tentacle) Where you had multiple characters you can control, and do things with. I think its a pretty effective model to do what needs to be done, so I dont think any puzzles would need to change between co-op and single player.
But bear in mind that those situations will doubtless have been designed with a single player in mind, and intended to be performed sequentially.
In the case of co-op play, puzzles will probably benefit from situations that are to be handled more or less concurrently (a simple example being the classic "two-keyed-lock", in which a safe or system may only be unlocked by the use of two keys, turned at more or less the same time).
Similarly, it's probably important to provide plenty for both characters to do, where a single player game might have off-characters simply following around passively.
Consider: Take a single-player game that uses multiple characters, such as you mentioned, and imagine having been playing as one of the characters at the same time as someone else was playing as the main character. What would you have been doing while the main character was busy with the various puzzles? And even during a two-character puzzle, what were you doing while player one was busy with his or her part of the puzzle?
I think that, while one bears similarities to the other, actual two-player co-op adventure gaming poses some challenges that single-player multi-character games face only to a lesser degree, if that.
kolle_hond
08-04-2008, 12:14 PM
New version out!
New features:
- Hint system
- Character Switching
- Background Music by Liszt
http://kollehond.gmobile.co.za/file/byt_in_tydv1.01.exe
Further work has been postponed for 2-3 weeks as I have upcoming tests and need to study. If you want to try sort of single player use backspace and shift to switch the control of characters.
The hint system gives your cursor a green glow when you are over a usable object.
If there are any major issues please let me know.
Thaumaturge
08-04-2008, 07:22 PM
It's a nice start, thus far. ^_^
My primary criticism is that your hot-spots are at times a little small, and occasionally unobvious.
On a more specific note, the final puzzle (involving the dog) seems to be a bit of a pixel-hunt - perhaps I simply missed them, but I didn't see any indications of where I should look.
kolle_hond
08-04-2008, 10:24 PM
The hint system is not supposed to give away the answer, it is there to make it easier, therefore some of the 'hints' just point you in the right direction. I also felt that it should be a bit challenging as it is the last puzzle in the demo.
Thaumaturge
08-04-2008, 11:36 PM
"Challenging" is fair enough, but pixel hunts are, for me, at least (and I think that I'm by no means alone in this), annoying. ;P
I strongly recommend that you steer clear of pixel hunts - if you want difficulty, ask for longer chains of reasoning, more complex mechanics, etc, but not clicking about without any idea as to where one should click.
As to the hot spots, it doesn't appear to be the hint system alone. For example, in the second room there is a rather large door that leads outside. The player may only pass through it, however, if they click on a smallish region towards the centre of the door; clicking on outer parts of the door doesn't seem to work.
Oh, by the way, another thing occurred to me: the matter of which dog may take which items feels to me a little arbitrary at the moment. Why can one dog take the food-collecting item, but not the other?
I don't mean to sound as though I'm trying to demolish your idea; I like the basic concept. ^^;
Afflict
09-04-2008, 10:38 AM
I haven't played the latest demo yet, I'll get around to it and give you feedback.
kolle_hond
09-04-2008, 11:54 AM
The thing is that I want both Players involved in every step of the game, therefore some of the items are for one of the players only. It is not intended to be a single player game or a game that gets overruled by the one player. if both were able to pick up the items it would basically be a race for the two players as to who can get the item first. i will sometime expand the clickable area on the door but at the moment it works fine and it does change the colour of the cursor when you go over the clickable area of the door. And I like pixel hunts, Im sorry if you don't.
Thaumaturge
09-04-2008, 05:05 PM
As to the pixel hunts, fair enough - if you like them, then go for it.
As to items and players, I just suspect that players might get a little annoyed at often being told that they're not allowed to pick up an item for no particular reason than that it's "earmarked" for the other player.
It looks as though you already have the ability to have one player pass items to another; given this, why not simply indicate that the two characters have different abilities, and that they thus don't each have the proficiencies for each item. For example, one character might be technically-minded, and thus know how to use the more technical items, which the other character might not know how to use. Similarly, you could make one character stronger, and some items clearly heavy, thus giving some reason that the stronger character might be able to take them, and the other not.
That way the differences should seem less arbitrary.
kolle_hond
09-04-2008, 10:28 PM
It looks as though you already have the ability to have one player pass items to another;
This is where you have it wrong, it is part of the puzzle there to pass the item on after you pick it up. It is supposed to be something like when the mechanic is busy with the engine and asks the other guy to hand him something. It may not be well executed but that is the general idea.
Thaumaturge
10-04-2008, 08:33 PM
Aah, fair enough.
In that case I wonder whether a general passing-of-items mechanism might not be a benefit to your game.
kolle_hond
10-04-2008, 11:14 PM
Might be, I'll look into that.
Fengol
11-04-2008, 08:15 AM
Love the idea of a 2 player adventure, but I would also seriously suggest looking at building the proto-type in Adventure Game Studio (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/) (Especially since you already have the artwork), and then implementing 2 player functionality afterwards.
While you can definitely do a Point-and-Click adventure in GameMaker, AGS has all the functionality needed for this type of game (room management, character actions, inventories, dialogs, scripting, etc) as well as built in Load, Save, Volume Control and Game Speed.
You should also find a better and more objective turnaround time each time you sit to work because you don't have to do all the framework code which you're obliged to do in GM. (i.e. You'll feel happier and with a sense you've achieved something when using AGS).
Thaumaturge
12-04-2008, 02:24 AM
This showed up in GameDev.net's Image of the Day section:
Vandrel Online (http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=490107).
It would seem to be an online multiplayer game that includes as a major feature dungeons designed to be played by two (or more, perhaps; I'm not clear on that) players, to the extent of most dungeons being insoluble (according to the description on the above-linked page) without teamwork.
From the linked-to page:
Almost every dungeon is made with puzzles that have team work and cooperative play in mind. Many puzzles require both players to do something in unison so that they may unlock a door to continue.
It might be a good place for you to look for ideas with regards to two-player puzzles and gameplay. ^_^
kolle_hond
03-06-2008, 09:47 PM
new version
(probably going to be the last one done in GM)
its a bit buggy but at least you can go all the way to the end
changes:
sprites for the doors, the main characters, the toolbox and engine have been improved
a few other minor stuff
download:
http://kollehond.gmobile.co.za/file/byt_in_tyd_v1.02.exe
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