View Full Version : Roach Toaster 2 - Last Public Version
Tr00jg
02-11-2007, 03:31 PM
//UPDATE
v0.85 out
//
The previous was getting a tad too big.
Roach Toaster 2 is getting close to completion. Up to this point, you can actually play the whole game (except the boss levels) if you are inclined to go through unpolished levels. I am getting hesitant to release more widely "public" versions.
So if there aren't any show-stopping bugs, this will most likely be the last public version. Chances are high that I will continue to post the games here until it is complete. After that I will remove that versions from my website.
I cannot thank Game.Dev and you peeps enough for testing Roach Toaster 2 and helping me all along the way! :). You guys always gave me reason to keep going! If it is not too much to ask, I would really like everyone to try it one last time!
Most importantly... Will you be able to play through the whole game? Does it get repetitive?
(I think someone new to this game would play through it all, don't you think?) I think the boss levels will add more variety and "spice" it up.
Is it cool?
Would you buy it?
After you have read the To-Do list, is there more I can add?
So... Firstly.
Changes to v0.83:
v0.83 aka Last Public Test (and Guert's Grind) version - 2007/11/02
-Solved several bugs.
>There was a bug where your units sometimes did not fire.
>A Save game bug.
-Increased the range where the tiles are cleared when placing a unit.
-Other Polishments.
-The 1st 20 levels is considered 80% polished.
-Removed "Old Big City" talk from previous versions.
-Replaced Melee with Quaker unit.
-Added a new secret.
-Made UI nifty-ier.
-Removed "emanating" ring effect. slows down game.
-Made Big City show more rewarding progress.
-Added a Icon-thingy!
Download here:
v0.85
http://www.shotbeakgames.za.net/RT2C2.zip
screenie omg!
http://www.shotbeakgames.za.net/cbback.jpg
P.S. I keep forgetting to add Game.Dev links anywhere. :/
Thaumaturge
03-11-2007, 07:10 AM
Aah, excellent! I've downloaded, have taken an initial look and intend on giving it a proper play sometime soon - thus far it looks pretty good, however, and the new Quaker's combat ability looks as though it might give that unit a fair bit of extra utility. ^_^
Tr00jg
03-11-2007, 12:04 PM
Aah, excellent! I've downloaded, have taken an initial look and intend on giving it a proper play sometime soon - thus far it looks pretty good, however, and the new Quaker's combat ability looks as though it might give that unit a fair bit of extra utility. ^_^
Yeah, I made the quaker for those tight corners where you had to wait for a roach to randomly "not" spawn in order to get into that "lane".
Thaumaturge
04-11-2007, 05:51 AM
Yeah, I made the quaker for those tight corners where you had to wait for a roach to randomly "not" spawn in order to get into that "lane".
Aah, yes - I remember such a level - this unit will be most useful there, I believe. ^_^
Cyberninja
05-11-2007, 11:33 AM
Very cool Tr00jg. I'm really enjoying RT2. :-)
A few suggestions:
- In the main menu there seems to be a problem with the button selection. The cursor highlights buttons even though the mouse is no where near them.
Graphic-wise certain things could still be improved on.
- Main menu: The text in the menu really doesn't work to well with the picture (pic is awesome). Maybe trying changing the font and repositioning them?
- The game interface needs a makeover. The text/instructions are fine. But the interface itself could still do with some tweaking. The characters on either end need alot of work also.
- The scoring screen looks very boring. Add some colour to it. A logo splashed across the screen with look awesome imo.
That's about it. All the other elements work well. Gameplay is awesome, the music suits the game perfectly. Overall, pretty damn cool. :-)
Tr00jg
05-11-2007, 01:09 PM
Very cool Tr00jg. I'm really enjoying RT2. :-)
Bank!
- In the main menu there seems to be a problem with the button selection. The cursor highlights buttons even though the mouse is no where near them.
The buttons' masks extend to the side of the "menu" block, if you know what I mean. Or is something else?
- Main menu: The text in the menu really doesn't work to well with the picture (pic is awesome). Maybe trying changing the font and repositioning them?
kk, like repositioning where? Just space it better? or another place in the "menu room"?
- The game interface needs a makeover. The text/instructions are fine. But the interface itself could still do with some tweaking. The characters on either end need alot of work also.
Okay, I'll be able to handle the characters on the end... What do you suggest I should do regarding the interface, and tweaking it?
- The scoring screen looks very boring. Add some colour to it. A logo splashed across the screen with look awesome imo.
Yeah, its still WIP. And yeah, a logo splashed on it would be awesome!
That's about it. All the other elements work well. Gameplay is awesome, the music suits the game perfectly. Overall, pretty damn cool. :-)
Bank! :D
Thanks a lot for testing Cyberninja.
Cyberninja
05-11-2007, 01:39 PM
Pm me pics of:
- Main menu art. (The guy with the gun, only)
- The Shotbeak logo ( The old one. The duck one)
- Sprites Sheet
I'll show you what I mean. :)
Tr00jg
05-11-2007, 03:05 PM
Pm me pics of:
- Main menu art. (The guy with the gun, only)
- The Shotbeak logo ( The old one. The duck one)
- Sprites Sheet
I'll show you what I mean. :)
Oh woot!. :D
Cyberninja
05-11-2007, 08:50 PM
Alrighty. Here are some examples of what I was talking about. Bear in mind, these are just the rough versions. They still need alot of work. :)
Main Menu:
http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/f82a00ccf0.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
I just repositioned the text and tweaked the picture. Added a new background and some roach goo as well. The title font still needs to be changed. It's way too "neat" You can find some good fonts on www.dafont.com
Interface:
http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/523d47e271.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/b18c2f2610.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
A very simple interface. You should draw the two soldiers in the same style as the guy holding the gun. I've used his pic in the interface as an example. The interface uses the same colours found throughout the game. Your sprites are all flat-shaded. So I stayed away from too many gradients and illusions of depth. You can build on this and go the "Techno-Style" route if you wish.
If you use this: I think it would be cool if you make the white borders around the sprites change color when the sprite is selected.
Score Screen:
http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/77f869604c.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
Again, a very simple screen. You should actually get your artist to draw another pic of the guy. A victory pose perhaps? And place him on the Score screen instead.
If you'd like the PSD files for these pics, let me know. I'll send them to you. :-)
Tr00jg
05-11-2007, 09:21 PM
0_o!
THAT. IS. AWESOME.
*bows down*.
This is precisely what I needed!
Thank you thank you!
And yes please, I would like the .psd files. :)
Yes, I will ask my artist to do another pose for the "other" character (the general) in a victory pose. I can then also use it as a "face" for the ui.
Gazza_N
05-11-2007, 09:54 PM
DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUDE! Nyeh! Blagh! Nigiblaw! Flecht!
Words have failed me, as you can see above. I'll try and get as much testing done as I can over the next few days (before I jet off to Belgium for two weeks), but so far I am very, VERY impressed. The Ping mechanic works really well, and the new, cleaner menu just does so much for the aesthetics and ease of play. The first time I saw the new end-turn transition I couldn't contain the massive "WOAH!". It looks better, it plays smoother, the sound and music are kicking! In short - the polish, she drips.
But alas, there are niggles. :( Two things - I've noticed that the game screen is very small in the early levels that I've played. Any way you can expand it a bit? A larger viewport would do wonders, I think.
Secondly, I feel that the Big City screen needs a Menu button. Not that hitting escape doesn't work, but generally when I'm in the menu system of a game (of which Big City is a part) I look for clickable buttons rather than hotkeys. In-game, escape works fine. But maybe that's just me. ;)
Once again, my testing has only just begun, and I'll keep you updated as I (slowly) play my way through. I just had to post early though - this new version made too big a first impression for me to wait! :D
Tr00jg
05-11-2007, 10:24 PM
DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUDE! Nyeh! Blagh! Nigiblaw! Flecht!
Words have failed me, as you can see above. I'll try and get as much testing done as I can over the next few days (before I jet off to Belgium for two weeks), but so far I am very, VERY impressed. The Ping mechanic works really well, and the new, cleaner menu just does so much for the aesthetics and ease of play. The first time I saw the new end-turn transition I couldn't contain the massive "WOAH!". It looks better, it plays smoother, the sound and music are kicking! In short - the polish, she drips.
*grins widely* This is just too awesome! Wow... Seeing stuff like this makes my heart jump. Thanks man, thanks a lot.
But alas, there are niggles. :( Two things - I've noticed that the game screen is very small in the early levels that I've played. Any way you can expand it a bit? A larger viewport would do wonders, I think.
Haha, this is exactly what my brother has been "lecturing" me about. The thing is... when I make the viewport "bigger" the graphics ain't that "crisp" anymore. It blurs. So, to do this I have to manually change the resolution each time, and I am not sure if Game Maker can do that. I'll have to come back to this.
Secondly, I feel that the Big City screen needs a Menu button. Not that hitting escape doesn't work, but generally when I'm in the menu system of a game (of which Big City is a part) I look for clickable buttons rather than hotkeys. In-game, escape works fine. But maybe that's just me. ;)
Sure. :)
Once again, my testing has only just begun, and I'll keep you updated as I (slowly) play my way through. I just had to post early though - this new version made too big a first impression for me to wait! :D
*grins again*. Muchos gracias!
I bet you agree that Cyberninja's art can add SO much more to the game.
dislekcia
06-11-2007, 12:24 AM
Wow. I really like how the feedback is flowing guys :)
Cyberninja, you are hax. Utter hax.
Hopefully I'll be able to add my own take on RT2 towards the end of the week, I've been intending to play it for ages now... Just got me some good news (but it means more work too, heh) so I should manage to stop being as busy and start being more productive.
-D
FuzzYspo0N
06-11-2007, 09:24 AM
thats awesome, good to see some more work on an already cool game. ^5 cyberninja the screens look good.
Troojg, i am "proud" of you for pushing through and im certain you are feeling the benefits of sticking with ideas and great feedback... and im certain the game can get much further
Great job
Tr00jg
06-11-2007, 11:35 AM
thats awesome, good to see some more work on an already cool game. ^5 cyberninja the screens look good.
Troojg, i am "proud" of you for pushing through and im certain you are feeling the benefits of sticking with ideas and great feedback... and im certain the game can get much further
Great job
I am indeed feeling the benefits of sticking with it for so long! It's awesome.
And yes, I agree, there is still more work to do, the biggest being the boss levels, level editor and more balancing of the levels.
:D
FuzzYspo0N
06-11-2007, 11:56 AM
depending on my time i might have a surprise for you ;p
This is not the surprise btw, this is just for kicks. It is in vector format so its scalable and you can feel free to have/use it if you need.
a logo for a game is made of win and i liked the concept of vectorizing a roach.
http://www.ncdd.co.za/img/rt1s.jpg
http://www.ncdd.co.za/img/rt2s.jpg
http://www.ncdd.co.za/img/rt1.jpg
http://www.ncdd.co.za/img/rt2.jpg
For the bigger ones ^^^^
Tr00jg
06-11-2007, 01:53 PM
Hey, that's quite decent! Thanks Fuzzyspoon!
I am not sure if it would fit in as a logo in Cyberninja's screenie? What do you guys think?
Also, while I appreciate you helping fuzzyspoon (and cyberninja), I am confused right now. Who is doing what? It would be best if only 1 person did art (for thematic reasons and communication reasons).
Cyberninja... Are you going to keep working on those graphics and send me the .psd files?
EDIT:
Fuzzyspoon told me he PM'ed to help where he can.
So then. Cyberninja. Are you still going to work more on those graphics?
(I am confuzzled).
Evil_Toaster
06-11-2007, 02:34 PM
Pull yourself together man! You're getting free art from not one, but two artists! (Whereas I'm eventually going to have to resort to digging a basement to store kidnapped artists in) :)
FuzzYspo0N
06-11-2007, 02:49 PM
lol who says its free :P :P you guessing (dont worry mine is)
but anyway we will sort it out troojg, im gonna work on some as well as build with ninjas art as is. COOl
Cyberninja
06-11-2007, 03:09 PM
I think you should wait until Fuzzyspoon shows you his work Tr00jg. Then you can decide which route you want to take. :)
@FS: Cool logo. That's what I was talking about Tr00jg. The title should have a grittier feel. That's exactly what FS has accomplished. :)
@ET. What are you talking about? Your art is already awesome. :) What do you need art for?
FuzzYspo0N
06-11-2007, 03:33 PM
@CN : thanks. i was just expressing the feel of the game lol...
@ET : lol
@Troojg, give me a little time to work on some things.
Cyberninja
06-11-2007, 03:56 PM
I with suggest you don't rush the art work Tr00jg. Just like everything else, good art takes time. :) You've already got the main thing sorted out (gameplay). The art is just the icing on the cake. Take your time and really polish it up. :)
Evil_Toaster
06-11-2007, 04:01 PM
@ET. What are you talking about? Your art is already awesome. :) What do you need art for?
A: I was being melodramatic
B: I want 2 artists making me art too, so I'm all jealous!
C: I am still wanting to be finding a concept artist. Someone who can do pixel art too would rock.
D: I am crap at working with colours in layouts. Ir Monotone.
To avoid this turning into a complete hijack, I'll talk a bit about RT now ;p
I checked out an earlier version a while back, which was cool, but had a few nasty bugs like units not shooting. Those are fixed now from what I've read, so I shall be checking it out sometime soon, when I get me some time, if said time is lenient enough, I might even give some feedback.
My pet hate for RT (and indeed, many of the game maker games put up here): The beta releases you've been putting up don't run on Vista! Yes, agree that Vista is crap, but I'm using it anyway... If you want masochists like me to check your stuff out, please convert it using that exe converter, or compile in 7. I keep losing the exe converter on my side because I don't work in game maker myself. ;p
Cyberninja
06-11-2007, 04:27 PM
If you're still in need of a concept artist, come January. We'll talk. :)
Evil_Toaster
06-11-2007, 04:35 PM
If you're still in need of a concept artist, come January. We'll talk. :)
Yaay! I expect I'll be bothering you in January then. I reckon the basement might be ready by then :D
Tr00jg
06-11-2007, 04:47 PM
Pull yourself together man! You're getting free art from not one, but two artists! (Whereas I'm eventually going to have to resort to digging a basement to store kidnapped artists in) :)
:(
Yes, you're right... >_<
@Cyberninja:
Thanks for the advice. As you can see I am no master on that part of a project. Roach Toaster 2 is the first time I ever had to worry about graphics!
@Fuzzyspoon:
Okay cool. As I said, I like the gritty feel of the logo. By all means go ahead and whip something up (please). :)
@Evil_Toaster:
Yes. I should've released a GM 7 version for this version. So, soz about that. I keep forgetting! Don't worry there WILL be a GM 7 version (eventually).
GM6 is better for testing since its smaller.
Lastly, thanks guys! I appreciate that you want to put effort into RT2.
Evil_Toaster
06-11-2007, 04:53 PM
Yes. I should've released a GM 7 version for this version. So, soz about that. I keep forgetting! Don't worry there WILL be a GM 7 version (eventually).
Just use that GM6 exe converter, it takes like 1 second to convert a GM6 exe to work on Vista. I don't know if, or by how much it increases the exe size though.
FuzzYspo0N
06-11-2007, 05:02 PM
@ET what concept art is it?
@ trojg, ill get something up soon. watch this space
Tr00jg
06-11-2007, 05:12 PM
Just use that GM6 exe converter, it takes like 1 second to convert a GM6 exe to work on Vista. I don't know if, or by how much it increases the exe size though.
I've never used it before. Lemme go check.
Okay, it's only about 1mb bigger. I'll do this for the next version.
Cyberninja
06-11-2007, 10:19 PM
Got this error while playing:
http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/90399c1356.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
I had just surrounded the last roach with two Quakers and a Shotgunner. Shotgunner killed the roach before the Quakers could kill it, then this error popped up. When I clicked "ignore" the game carries on without any problems.
Tr00jg
06-11-2007, 10:24 PM
Got this error while playing:
http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/90399c1356.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
I had just surrounded the last roach with two Quakers and a Shotgunner. Shotgunner killed the roach before the Quakers could kill it, then this error popped up. When I clicked "ignore" the game carries on without any problems.
Ah, snap, I know why this happens! Thanks a lot!
Cyberninja
06-11-2007, 10:56 PM
Another one:
http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/c4bac7f54c.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
I'm not sure what caused this. It just popped up, after I completed a stage. This was on the "Big City" screen.
Tr00jg
07-11-2007, 10:25 AM
Another one:
http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/c4bac7f54c.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
I'm not sure what caused this. It just popped up, after I completed a stage. This was on the "Big City" screen.
That's odd, you must've somehow clicked on "play" straight after ending the level... Don't worry, it is hopefully fixed.
Cyberninja
07-11-2007, 11:09 AM
Yeah, I think that's exactly what I did. Was a bit eager to carry on with the roach busting. Those pesky roaches are no match for the combined force of my Quaker and Rocketeer (Mwhahaha!) ...ahem. Glad you fixed it.
Thaumaturge
08-11-2007, 02:37 AM
Narg, I was too late to catch the unusual bug!
I mean, um, I'm glad that you seem to have them fixed. Yes. That's right. ;P
Cyberninja, FuzzYspo0N, I very much like the art that you created for Roach Toaster - it looks very good indeed, I'd say. ^_^
Overall the graphics look very good - and the menus and splash screens should look much better with the contributions that Cyberninja and FuzzYspo0N have made.
I noticed with pleasure that the Quaker's armour seems to become damaged. Unfortunately, I see that their red circles still remain after they die (I don't know whether this is the case for all unit types, I'm afraid).
I do think that the van looks a little out of place in terms of both quality and perspective - perhaps a new sprite, seen either from the side or the top? (I think that I would suggest the former; even though it would not be seen from the same perspective as the rest of the sprites, I think that it should match the overall "flat" effect fairly well and has the advantage that it should be more easily discernible as a van than it would, I think, be from the top.)
I'm glad to see that you changed the unit selection font colour to black - that makes it rather more legible, I feel.
The music is very good indeed - it suits the theme very well, I think. I still think that the repeater should have a firing sound effect, however.
In terms of gameplay, the Quaker has made a number of levels much easier than I remember them being previously.
I do agree with Gazza on the matter of the viewport - it would, I think, be nicer of it were larger. One of the oddities of the current presentation is that the text displayed in Big City is much easier to read than that encountered in the levels (for me, at least).
Finally, I encountered one user interface bug. At some point, I noticed that the unit cost and name text for the Quaker was showing, despite my not having the mouse over the Quaker's icon - it even updated the price when I placed another unit, as I recall (based on this memory I believe that I had selected some other unit to place, and noticed the erroneously-visible text before doing so). The text disappeared after once again hovering over the Quaker's icon and then moving away - note, however, that as I recall it did not disappear when I hovered over another icon.
Perhaps the result of the mouse "warping" too far?
Oh, and by the way, your second tutorial level seems to have a minor error in the text: you claim that one cannot kill all of the roaches and conclude the level with Quakers alone, which is what I did (largely, I think, because I was told that I couldn't). :P
All in all, however, very well done indeed! I am impressed with the polish that this game is developing. ^_^
FuzzYspo0N
08-11-2007, 08:45 AM
I do think that the van looks a little out of place in terms of both quality and perspective
This and other sprites are being worked on atm by me, im trying to work up something cool
http://reinerstileset.4players.de/englisch.htm along the lines of this guy, he has some cool stuff for anyone interested
dislekcia
08-11-2007, 03:54 PM
Finally, I encountered one user interface bug. At some point, I noticed that the unit cost and name text for the Quaker was showing, despite my not having the mouse over the Quaker's icon - it even updated the price when I placed another unit, as I recall (based on this memory I believe that I had selected some other unit to place, and noticed the erroneously-visible text before doing so). The text disappeared after once again hovering over the Quaker's icon and then moving away - note, however, that as I recall it did not disappear when I hovered over another icon.
Perhaps the result of the mouse "warping" too far?
Sounds like a common issue with using the Mouse enter and Mouse exit events in GM. Often an exit even doesn't fire because either the mouse moves to far or the mouse system is too busy dealing with another enter event. I tend simply check mouse position and code defensively so that popups automatically kill themselves unless told otherwise every frame.
-D
Gazza_N
09-11-2007, 06:05 PM
More testing stuffz, as promised.
> :( The Electro is broken! When firing the lightning bolt on an armoured roach, I get the following (paraphrased): Error in Action 1 of Alarm 4 of Armodon - Script Unit_destroy - Line 1 position 16: Unknown variable "nunit". This error keeps popping up until the shock beam chain dissipates. I also notices that if the roach is killed before the beam has a chance to jump to the next one, the beam will just hover there until the next turn.
> Your budget needs to be revised on some of the later levels, I think. I needed to cheat quite a bit to beat them.
> In levels with lots of wall tiles, the game tended to lag quite a bit. This is probably due to the fake 3D.
> I would suggest that you implement a way to skip turns without firing the ping. When starting levels, I found it slightly tedious to have to fire off and wait for the ping when no roaches were in view of my guys yet. Then again, this was only for the first few turns of each mission, so maybe I need to be a little more patient. ;)
I'll keep you posted on anything else I find, but I'm having fun so far! :) If only we had the full banter scripts...
Thaumaturge
09-11-2007, 11:06 PM
This and other sprites are being worked on atm by me, im trying to work up something cool
Aah, excellent, I'm glad to hear it - I look forward to seeing what you produce. ^_^
Sounds like a common issue with using the Mouse enter and Mouse exit events in GM. Often an exit even doesn't fire because either the mouse moves to far or the mouse system is too busy dealing with another enter event. I tend simply check mouse position and code defensively so that popups automatically kill themselves unless told otherwise every frame.
Aah, fair enough - that does sound as though it would explain it.
Tr00jg, I'm afraid that I've encountered a bug, it seems. Feeling like playing Roach Toaster for a little while, I loaded it up and clicked on "Continue" - note that, if I recall correctly, I was using the default profile, as I don't think that I'd bothered to create a new one, meaning that I had not clicked on "Profile".
I'm not absolutely certain of my subsequent steps on first encountering this bug, but have reproduced the error by simply clicking on the "Play" button in Big City. When I did so, the following error appeared:
"ERROR in
action number 1
of Other Event: User Defined 0
for object Level:
Data structure with index does not exist."
I clicked on "Ignore", and while the level loaded, a recurring error appeared, popping up again when "Ignore" was selected. It read as follows:
"ERROR in
action number 1
of Draw Event
for object Buyer:
Data structure with index does not exist."
Perhaps I spoke too soon about not finding bugs... ^^;;;
Well, all I can say is wow. This is the type of dedication I lack when it comes to creating games. Truly AMAZING WORK you have done Tr00jg!!!!!!!!!!
SHIFT+1 * 10 & ALL CAPS CONFIRMS IT!!!!!!!!!!
Tr00jg
12-11-2007, 12:30 PM
I could've sworn I posted a reply yesterday... hmm...
Anyway! Thanks for testing everyone. I really appreciate it. :)
@Dislekcia
Yes, I think I will have to code the UI events more defensively.
@Gazza_N:
1) Thanks for pointing that out. I will fix el Electro.
2) Yes, I haven't tested/balanced the later levels at all.
3) The lag is a problem. It occurs by me too sometimes. I think I will discover some way to cull some unneeded drawing.
4) I think the fact that you don't fire in the 1st turn is more a case of bad level design. :P
@Thaumaturge:
Thanks for pointing that out. Game Maker does not save datastructures... I am not sure why it happens and sometimes not. I have hopefully fixed it.
And I appreciate that you "felt like playing Roach Toaster for a while". It means that people are actually coming back to the game! Bank.
@XennoX:
Thanks man! ^_^
@Fuzzyspoon:
I am looking forward to what you are working on!
Tr00jg
12-11-2007, 04:33 PM
There is a guy who is going to "grind" Roach Toaster 2, ie rip it apart and give awesome feedback. He has given awesome feedback already. I am saying because I want give him a newer version with less bugs on it + the new art.
There is also another "thing" I want to work on and that is the lag, which is primarily caused by the fake 3D. I do the fake 3D by drawing rectangles and triangles to simulate a "slanted" side. ie, here is a shoddy pic to show what I mean.
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/8339/lvlne3.png
I have contemplated to remove the transparency and thus destroy the need for some walls, but this will cause problems in later levels.
Dislekcia, how did you draw fake 3D?
P.S. Here is some of the guy's grinds:
http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=576.0
and
http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=653.0
dislekcia
12-11-2007, 07:01 PM
Dislekcia, how did you draw fake 3D?
Whut? Elaborate please... Haven't I gone over how I did Monochrome at length? What is it that you want to know and what problems are you trying to solve?
-D
Tr00jg
12-11-2007, 07:20 PM
Oh sorry. I can't remember how you did Monochrome's fake 3D.
My problem is that I think I am perhaps drawing way too much, ie it draws 4 rectangles+ 8 triangles per wall. Add that up, and it is way too much+transparency.
How can I optimise it?
Evil_Toaster
12-11-2007, 07:32 PM
Oh sorry. I can't remember how you did Monochrome's fake 3D.
My problem is that I think I am perhaps drawing way too much, ie it draws 4 rectangles+ 8 triangles per wall. Add that up, and it is way too much+transparency.
How can I optimise it?
You could lock to a single perspective and use prerendered 3D-ish tiles with transparency?
Cyberninja
12-11-2007, 07:36 PM
In all honesty, Fuzzypoon's contribution* is going to eliminate the fake 3D drawing problem altogether. Have you spoke to him? You're currently doing extra unneeded work, as far as the "fake 3D" look goes. :/
*From what he has told me.
Tr00jg
12-11-2007, 11:49 PM
In all honesty, Fuzzypoon's contribution* is going to eliminate the fake 3D drawing problem altogether. Have you spoke to him? You're currently doing extra unneeded work, as far as the "fake 3D" look goes. :/
*From what he has told me.
0_o. Nope haven't talked to him again. I will though.
@ET: That's a not too bad idea, but it will require a monster effort from my side. But if that is what it takes.
Anyway, I have fixed most of the bugs (hopefully) and I started implementing Cyber+Fuzzy menu art. Next up is the new UI+splash screen.
Another problem I have...
Some people want the viewport bigger, ie some levels shouldn't look so small. This causes a problem though. Game Maker can't change the resolution manually on a whim, thus I need to do either of 2 things.
1) Keep it as it is now, ie some levels looks small, but the graphics are crisp and sharp.
or
2) Increase the viewport so that the levels look more in your face, but this causes the game to look blurry...
I prefer number 1.
What do you guys think?
Thaumaturge
13-11-2007, 01:54 AM
Hmm... given those two choices, I think that the first is indeed preferable.
I'm glad to hear that you have someone to "grind" the game - that should hopefully produce some useful input. ^_^
Having looked briefly at the links that you game to two of is other grinds, it does seem that he provides very thorough feedback.
dislekcia
13-11-2007, 02:21 AM
What about making the rooms less empty in other ways? If the problem is that the puzzle areas are too small you have two choices that don't involve messing with the resolution:
1) Have two sets of graphics for your roaches, units and doohickeys, then use the bigger graphics and rules for small puzzles.
2) Fill the space with other objects or rooms in the house that roaches can't get into and neither can your units. You'd have a lot of options for ingame humor and stage/scene setting if you did that.
-D
FuzzYspo0N
13-11-2007, 08:45 AM
Lol yea i think tahts a great idea dis,
@troojg, what cyber was talking about was i was gonna render 3d models of all the characters making it nice but the problem, being whether u want isometric characters, or top view characters. If you want isometric its just a spin of the camera, but wud require a lot more detail, top view wud be better (making the van top view as well, with doors swung open and lights etc to make it look like a van.
Ill catch u on google talk later,
You could lock to a single perspective and use prerendered 3D-ish tiles
this was the aim, i must just discuss with what u want troojg :)
Next up is the new UI+splash screen.
This is nearly done too, also just needa confirm a little.
Tr00jg
13-11-2007, 12:06 PM
I wasn't even aware of the stuff you were doing Fuzzy. We should talk. :P
@Dislekcia:
Yes, I could fill in random doohickeys that can't be accessed by the roaches or my units... it will take time to add it, ie I will have to edit all the small rooms. And what should I add? That is just more art I have to worry about.
I am confused. I don't know what to do. Only 2 people have complained about it so far, so I am sticking to the "small" view + crispness. For the next version I will add the "big" view + blurry version too and then let you decide.
FuzzYspo0N
13-11-2007, 01:08 PM
yea troojg, youre making the game, go with whats best and what you like most...
the surprise was a new sprite pack but its all out anyway now, hah.
the ui and the splash are being worked on, so watch this space and let troojg tell u when its coming out.
http://www.ncdd.co.za/img/sprite1.png
http://www.ncdd.co.za/img/sprite1s.png
some lol ness, messing around with the sprites in 3d. its a start, gonna refine this cos its horrid :)
they wont look like this dont worry troojg
dislekcia
13-11-2007, 03:13 PM
I wasn't even aware of the stuff you were doing Fuzzy. We should talk. :P
@Dislekcia:
Yes, I could fill in random doohickeys that can't be accessed by the roaches or my units... it will take time to add it, ie I will have to edit all the small rooms. And what should I add? That is just more art I have to worry about.
I am confused. I don't know what to do. Only 2 people have complained about it so far, so I am sticking to the "small" view + crispness. For the next version I will add the "big" view + blurry version too and then let you decide.
More polish is never a bad thing ;)
And people would see the extra effort put into your rooms as a positive thing... At the moment they're a tad static, what about injecting some life and movement?
-D
Cyberninja
13-11-2007, 03:26 PM
More polish is never a bad thing ;)
And people would see the extra effort put into your rooms as a positive thing... At the moment they're a tad static, what about injecting some life and movement?
-D
I agree with Dis. Animate them objects yo. :)
Tr00jg
13-11-2007, 06:09 PM
You guys have a point.
I just want to finish off the levels (ie correct budget + design) and the boss levels before I venture into any full-out polishing.
As for injecting some life and movement. What do you guys suggest I could add? I remember Dis mentioning tables as a doodad...
dislekcia
13-11-2007, 06:40 PM
Perfectly valid point there :)
I guess it's a good thing that we're assuming you've got your levels ironed out already, means we trust your design instincts... We should probably all start a re-play to help with that if you need us to.
Man, I remember the tables idea, that was a while ago... I dunno, doodads like typical furniture, TVs, art, potplants, etc. Maybe even have a pet in one of the locked rooms that goes ape when a person walks by?
-D
Tr00jg
13-11-2007, 06:59 PM
Perfectly valid point there :)
I guess it's a good thing that we're assuming you've got your levels ironed out already, means we trust your design instincts... We should probably all start a re-play to help with that if you need us to.
Man, I remember the tables idea, that was a while ago... I dunno, doodads like typical furniture, TVs, art, potplants, etc. Maybe even have a pet in one of the locked rooms that goes ape when a person walks by?
-D
Hey neat ideas! As for the re-play. I would highly appreciate something like that when I am finished with all the levels. If everything goes according to plan, hopefully, it will be finished before the end of the month. If I do 1-4 levels (balancing) a day, it will go past very quickly.
F1ak3r
18-11-2007, 03:12 PM
It's looking great so far. I really like the changes you've made since that last version I commented on. And that Menu Screen... WOW, that's well drawn. I can hardly wait for this game to be finished!
Tr00jg
25-11-2007, 06:46 PM
Warning: awesome feedback ahead!
A 4 page grind!
http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=761.0
I've read it and it has lots and lots of merit. This man is precisely what I needed! My biggest concern was whether the game had enough motivation to keep the player playing...
Anyway, if you read the thread, I have posted my replies to his GRIND.
The biggest thing I am changing is this:
-When I started development on Roach Toaster 2, I developed the levels without a story/plot in mind. The whole "Big City" idea was focused on the short-term gameplay, ie just figuring out how to efficiently beat the level. This can "work", but as I figured out, you will have to employ other aspects that must keep the player in the game. I can "force" a story on the levels, but that won't be justified.
I am instead going to make a story/plot campaign like in Roach Toaster 1. There will not be a "progress" meter, since a story should not be about when you finish it. I think this attributed to Roach Toaster 1's success, as you always had that "what's gonna happen next" feel to it. The units will be introduced like in Roach Toaster 1, ie they are there for a reason, not just "popping" into the army after a certain "level".
Roach Toaster's gameplay has its merits, but it isn't designed to hold on its own. A story will definitely help it onwards.
Roach Toaster 2 has passed the "its-awesome-to-work-on-it" stage, but now that I have this opportunity again to develop a great short-ish campaign (ie +- 25 levels), I am stoked to get back to work on it. The other levels I worked will still be there as a huge bonus for completing the game. I can even use the extra levels as a way to unlock neat stuff like director commentaries/concept art, beta screenies, etc.
Other stuff he commented on that I think needs addressing:
-Graphics. Apparently the game sends mixed messages. The narrators are funny, but the game comes across as serious with its dark colours, unpersonalised sprites and moody music. I dunno what to do. I keep losing on the graphics front. Suggestions?
*gets back to conceptualising the story*
Thaumaturge
26-11-2007, 04:57 AM
He seems to have provided you with some useful feedback - I'm glad to hear it. ^_^
As to the graphics, I would suggest tending the graphics towards humour, rather than taking a serious tone - it seems to me to fit the concept better.
In-level, perhaps expand on Dislekcia's idea of including house-like peripheral items and make the current tilesets themselves more house-like. For example, instead of blue squares, you might depict ceramic tiles of the same size, or a pattern of wooden squares, or a chequered carpet. Similarly, perhaps give the walls some texture, and colour them as though they were brick, or painted, or wallpapered, etc.
If you want to take it further, perhaps allow for multiple types of each in a given level, so that one area can be carpeted, while the remains are tiled, for example.
In terms of Big City, one idea might be to simply add some detail to the current squares, depicting buildings within them, but otherwise leaving the layout more or less as-is.
FuzzYspo0N
26-11-2007, 08:24 AM
This is great feedback...
im glad he defined some more graphics lines for you to look at troojg, i didnt want to seem like i was plotting for you to change the feel of the game at all by making graphics for you.
I have been working on the sprites, and after reading what u replied in terms of character graphics, have adjusted a little and will hopefully show u some progress this week. I wanted to run a few ideas past you in terms of a "style" to draw in, cos i had quite a few diverse ideas. Ill catch u on google a bit later, but
Otherwise, im sure u can pick up the loose ends quite easily, and be running it further and better as always
:) keep it up
Seeing as it was the last post, i might as well just edit.
www.owned.co.za/roachtoaster1.mp3
its bout 125 kb, its the kind of style music that wud be cool?? cos i can make lots of music like this for you, according to different levels etc. The sprites are coming along well, im just rehashing some style changes to make it more cartoony, and im working on a "promotional" "conceptual" art piece, as in a "flyer" or box cover. lol, just for fun, its looking cool though. Ill show you later today progress
Tr00jg
01-12-2007, 12:45 PM
Hmmm... that music piece is interesting, but something more "chirpy" would be cool. More Music is on my to-do list! I am busy with some new tunes.
Neat, I am eagerly awaiting those screenies.
Tr00jg
04-12-2007, 11:37 PM
Well well, I have a shoddy/unpolished prototype of the new campaign mode.
There will most likely be bugs (of the software type), so if you find any, just tell me. I just want to get general feedback about the new direction (ie campaign) I am taking.
After the BOSS level, it is done. I think you will go the test level methinks (I forgot to edit that).
Tell me what you think. Total changes since v0.83
v0.85 aka New Prototype. - 2007/12/04
-Scrapped Big City.
-Started with a proper campaign (8 levels) with boss level.
-Fixed a kamikaze bug.
-Optimised game for lag.
-Balanced and added banter to all levels up to lvl 25 (pre-campaing lvls).
-Fixed Quaker Bug.
-renamed quaker to stomper.
-nerfed stomper.
-fixed the ring. (it doesn't go on forever now).
v0.836 aka Another for Guert - 2007/11/16
-Added More banter scripts.
-Fixed another stupid electro bug. It aint broken anymore.
v0.835 aka Only for Guert - 2007/11/13
-Solved Bugs
>Electro aint broken anymore.
>Can't bring up the menu in the main menu.
>Fixed some text.
>Fixed a show stopping-bug (hopefully).
-Added New Menu art.
-Added new UI.
-Added new character potraits.
New menu screenie:
http://www.shotbeakgames.za.net/cbback.jpg
DOWNLOAD:
http://www.shotbeakgames.za.net/RT2CP.zip
Thaumaturge
05-12-2007, 04:31 AM
I've played through the tutorial and the first few levels and thus far I am quite impressed. ^_^
For one thing, the graphics look much better in places - the UI looks very good, for example, with the unit icons looking better and the text more readable. The main menu is also improved, and
I rather like the new introduction to the units (well, the one unit to which I have thus far been introduced in-game ^^; ) - it feels a little less arbitrary than the previous method of simply handing out new units at certain points. I also very much like the new Shotgunner sprite.
As to the new direction, I find that I like it - it coheres quite nicely, thus far. ^_^
By the way, I rather like the white background of the tutorial - it makes a nice null space around the actual level, I think.
I'm afraid that I did find some problems, although most are fairly minor.
- Alas, my old foe, the non-firing problem, has resurfaced. In at least some cases it seems to be that the "ping-ring" ends too early, before reaching all units (even if they are near to the centre of the ring) - although this premature disappearance does not seem to happen all the time - but I am not sure that it accounts for all cases.
An example:
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/7357/toasterscreenshot2fs9.th.png (http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=toasterscreenshot2fs9.png)
- When attempting to continue a game (which I think had been left on the first level after being given the Shotgunner unit), I received the following error:
"ERROR in
action number 1
of Draw Event
for object Buyer:
Data structure with index does not exist."
Attempting to ignore the problem led to the dialogue simply reappearing, at least for as long as I persisted.
- The tutorial still refers to the Stomper as the Quaker.
- When the tutorial concludes, the "congratulations" dialogue repeats, seemingly until the UI has finished reappearing.
- The tutorial seems to lead in to the original Big City and the original first level.
- A number of the new levels seem to have borders that are off of the screen, which leaves me a little as though I am missing tiles and that the level should scroll.
- The in-game conversation text on the left-hand-side seems to be a little too high, cresting slightly above its frame.
- I found that the central part of the UI at times ended up misaligned with the image below it, as shown below:
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/4027/toasterscreenshot1te8.th.png (http://img145.imageshack.us/my.php?image=toasterscreenshot1te8.png)
Finally, while I very much like the new level style, I still think that they could benefit from more varied tilesets to give them a greater sense of being part of a city and to add "life" to them.
For example, you might have an "outside" tileset, that defines alley, street and city square floor tiles, as well as shop and office wall tiles, and perhaps some special wall tiles, such as statues or fountains. You could then place the player in the middle of the square to stand against swarms of roaches streaming in from the streets and alleys that lead in from all directions (the latter of which could provide nice, tricky-to-reach breeding areas), or have them advance down a main road towards a specific, plot-relevant building.
All in all, however, I very much like the changes that you've made. ^_^
Tr00jg
05-12-2007, 12:05 PM
I've played through the tutorial and the first few levels and thus far I am quite impressed. ^_^
Thanks.
For one thing, the graphics look much better in places - the UI looks very good, for example, with the unit icons looking better and the text more readable. The main menu is also improved, and
Thanks. Fuzzy is busy with changing the UI though. Although it looks "slick and awesome", I want a more thematic cartoony UI.
I rather like the new introduction to the units (well, the one unit to which I have thus far been introduced in-game ^^; ) - it feels a little less arbitrary than the previous method of simply handing out new units at certain points. I also very much like the new Shotgunner sprite.
Thanks.
As to the new direction, I find that I like it - it coheres quite nicely, thus far. ^_^
Bank
I'm afraid that I did find some problems, although most are fairly minor.
- Alas, my old foe, the non-firing problem, has resurfaced. In at least some cases it seems to be that the "ping-ring" ends too early, before reaching all units (even if they are near to the centre of the ring) - although this premature disappearance does not seem to happen all the time - but I am not sure that it accounts for all cases.
It's like a frikken zombie. :( I can't get rid of it.
- When attempting to continue a game (which I think had been left on the first level after being given the Shotgunner unit), I received the following error:
"ERROR in
action number 1
of Draw Event
for object Buyer:
Data structure with index does not exist."
Oh man... Why does this happen? Gah.
- The tutorial still refers to the Stomper as the Quaker.
Whut? I thought I fixed that. :P
- When the tutorial concludes, the "congratulations" dialogue repeats, seemingly until the UI has finished reappearing.
- The tutorial seems to lead in to the original Big City and the original first level.
Damn, I thought I fixed that as well.
- A number of the new levels seem to have borders that are off of the screen, which leaves me a little as though I am missing tiles and that the level should scroll.
It is there to let it feel more like a city. ie roads pass through, etc.
- The in-game conversation text on the left-hand-side seems to be a little too high, cresting slightly above its frame.
kk.
- I found that the central part of the UI at times ended up misaligned with the image below it, as shown below:
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/4027/toasterscreenshot1te8.th.png (http://img145.imageshack.us/my.php?image=toasterscreenshot1te8.png)
odd...
Finally, while I very much like the new level style, I still think that they could benefit from more varied tilesets to give them a greater sense of being part of a city and to add "life" to them.
For example, you might have an "outside" tileset, that defines alley, street and city square floor tiles, as well as shop and office wall tiles, and perhaps some special wall tiles, such as statues or fountains. You could then place the player in the middle of the square to stand against swarms of roaches streaming in from the streets and alleys that lead in from all directions (the latter of which could provide nice, tricky-to-reach breeding areas), or have them advance down a main road towards a specific, plot-relevant building.
All in due time. :P
All in all, however, I very much like the changes that you've made. ^_^
Thanks very much Thaumaturge! I once again appreciate you taking time to test it!
Tr00jg
05-12-2007, 04:16 PM
Uploaded new version with (hopefully) all the fixes you pointed out Thaumaturge. That nasty loading bug is hopefully gone forever. I don't know why it ever happened (didn't happen by me at all), but I worked around it, so hopefully it won't happen again.
Other than that, there is nothing new, so yeah, if you've played the previous version, don't really bother.
http://www.shotbeakgames.za.net/RT2C2.zip
Oh yeah, Dislekcia showed me today how to optimise the fake 3D, so I will be implementing that soon too.
Anyone else played the campaign mode? What do you guys think?
Thaumaturge
05-12-2007, 11:02 PM
So far so good - most of the problems seem to be fixed for the most part. ^_^
I am still seeing some UI drifting, but it seems to be less pronounced than it previously was (although it may just be that it hadn't had enough time to drift as far as shown in the previous post).
I'm afraid that continuing still doesn't seem to work on my end - but I am now getting a slightly different error. ^^;
It now reads:
"ERROR in
action number 1
of Alarm Event for alarm 0
for object clevel5s:
Data structure with index does not exist."
"Ignoring" that error a few times resulted in the following error:
"ERROR in
action number 1
of Draw Event
for object Buyer:
Error in code at line 1:
if(LeftSpeech.towrite == " " & RightSpeech.towrite == " ")
at position 26: Cannot compare arguments."
Of course, this latter error may be the result of some side-effect of the first error.
All in due time. :P
Aah, I'm glad to hear it!
Thanks very much Thaumaturge! I once again appreciate you taking time to test it!
'Tis my pleasure - I rather enjoy testing this game. ^_^
Tr00jg
05-12-2007, 11:44 PM
I am still seeing some UI drifting, but it seems to be less pronounced than it previously was (although it may just be that it hadn't had enough time to drift as far as shown in the previous post).
Is this when it is finished "moving"? Cos, when it is moving the it currently does happen... I still have to fix that.
I'm afraid that continuing still doesn't seem to work on my end - but I am now getting a slightly different error. ^^;
It now reads:
"ERROR in
action number 1
of Alarm Event for alarm 0
for object clevel5s:
Data structure with index does not exist."
Noooooooooooooooooo! I just don't win with this error. It doesn't happen with me at all. Well, at least I know at which level it happens now (not like it has something do with that).
*tests and debugs again*
'Tis my pleasure - I rather enjoy testing this game. ^_^
That means a lot. Thanks.
Tr00jg
06-12-2007, 12:20 AM
What the? Gosh, I am really getting tired of making stupid mistakes because of me not properly testing. Gaaah. :(
Thauma, when you load (ie press continue), do you get a black screen?? I know why it happens (gosh, bleh). I just can't seem to find the loading bug you keep getting. You have XP right? And you quit normally (ie menu, and then exit)?
Thaumaturge
06-12-2007, 02:47 AM
Indeed, I do seem to get a black screen, and am using XP. As to quitting, as best I recall, I usually quit having "started play" (i.e. having at least placed some units, if not played through multiple turns), and then head directly for the exit, i.e.: "Escape", "Main Menu", "Yes", "Exit", "Yes", "Yes".
(The following was typed as I experimented, and so may ramble a little. ^^; )
In an interesting development, I created a new profile, started a new game, and quit on level 1. Reloading this game seems to have worked. In that case I think that I had placed only one unit and exited before hitting the "End Round" button.
A subsequent attempt to load the same profile, having exited on level 2, in which I had placed a handful of units and pressed the "End Round" button once, resulted in a black screen, but no error message. Hitting escape and then selecting "Resume" allowed the level to be begun, apparently normally.
Another attempt to load the same level had the same results, but when in this case I selected "Main Menu", I received an error message.
("ERROR in
action number 1
of Draw Event
for object Buyer:
Error in code at line 1:
if(LeftSpeech.towrite == " " & RightSpeech.towrite == " ")
at position 56: Cannot compare arguments.")
Strangely, some later attempts to load the same level (albeit presumably with it having been re-saved by previous testing exits) caused it to load happily. o_0
A (yet) later attempt to load level 3 with the same profile returned me to the black, albeit error-less, screen.
I have found that the level appears to be active beneath the blackness; repeated clicking of the mouse seems to advance the level-initiation conversation.
(By the way, it would be nice, I think, to be able to see which profile is the currently-loaded profile at the main menu, especially for situations in which more than one player is using the same copy of the game, and aren't communicating between themselves about who was last playing.)
With regards to the UI, it does indeed to be offset once it has completed its animation, and I think that it only appears after some turns have been played - but it may be intermittent; I'm not yet certain, I'm afraid.
I'm afraid that the non-firing bug once again reanimated. ^^;
In one play of the third level (if I recall the number correctly - it's the level in which the player is tasked with saving the cluster of Shotgunners in an enclosed area), at the conclusion of the first round, my single ranger fired, but I don't think that any of the Shotgunners did.
Tr00jg
06-12-2007, 12:34 PM
*sigh* (damn buggy bugs).
Thanks for your help Thaumaturge! I'll have to look into it again. Thanks a lot for helping out!
Thaumaturge
06-12-2007, 06:47 PM
My pleasure - I hope that you do manage to find and eradicate those bugs. ^_^
(Wouldn't it be nice to be able to set your Roach Toasters on them? ;P)
SkinkLizzard
07-12-2007, 10:26 AM
level after getting the shotgunners bordell says 'this invasion is a lot more worse than we expected'
shouldnt it be 'a lot worse' leaving out the more ?
Tr00jg
07-12-2007, 01:30 PM
level after getting the shotgunners bordell says 'this invasion is a lot more worse than we expected'
shouldnt it be 'a lot worse' leaving out the more ?
Most likely. :P
Thaumaturge
08-12-2007, 01:33 AM
Well, I've reached the boss - he was rather fun to fight, if perhaps less difficult than I had expected, based on the difficulty of the preceding levels. :P
I am afraid that I have a few more matters to report, however:
First of all, it seems that you provide the player with control of the Repeater unit before telling them about it - I noticed Repeaters in my unit panel during the level before the boss level, but the mention of having acquired them seems to have only appeared in the end-of-level screen at the end of that level - unless, of course, I missed its appearance after the preceding level, in which case it would seem to be redundant. ^^;
Secondly, you don't seem to lead into the acquisition of the Repeater as well as you do the Shotgunner - the latter seems to have been the result of saving the Gypsies, but I don't know where the Repeaters came from (unless I missed it in the end-of-level screen - I'll admit that I didn't pay that full attention ^^; ).
Thirdly, is the boss supposed to be able to shoot through walls? That caught me by surprise, as I recall! o_o
Finally, I received an error on killing the boss:
"ERROR in
action number 1
of Draw Event
for object bosslifem8:
Error in code at line 2:
draw_text(x,y,string(boss8.hits)+"/20");
at position 29: Unknown variable hits"
Repeated "Ignores" (using the hotkey to free up the mouse to click on the end-of-level screen "Next Level" button :P) resulted in my return to the main menu.
It might be worth noting that I had not killed all other roaches on the level when I killed the boss - having noted its ability to shoot through walls and insta-kill my units, I surrounded and killed it (with liberal use of Repeaters and funds) quickly.
SkinkLizzard
08-12-2007, 10:42 AM
that reminds me was I supposed to be able to use any of the units except shotgunner?
because when I started a new game I was able to use repeater all the way to kamikaze while I was saving the gypsies.
Tr00jg
09-12-2007, 12:17 AM
That's particularly odd... It aint suppose to happen. Did you press 'A' somewhere by any chance? And yeah, Thauma, the first boss is suppose to be easy and yeah, he can shoot through walls and yeah thanks for that bug! Im away till next saturday, so I wont be able to work on it.
Tr00jg
02-01-2008, 11:51 PM
Seeing the Game.Dev article in Jan's NAG made me brim with pride again. :).
Now that I've taken a break from developing it, I've had time to think about it again. Somehow, I think I am taking it too seriously. I am trying to make this the perfect/awesome game. This is my first attempt at making shareware. Instead of slaving myself to "perfection", I should release it and gain what I can from this experience.
That isn't to say that I shouldn't just release it now, in its unfinished state, but I think I shouldn't fuss so much about it.
Another thing that kinda sucks (which I have learned already) is that all my "channels" is kinda depleted except for Game.Dev (thanks guys)... Nobody cares to give feedback anymore (which is pivotal for continued development), so note to self: don't release versions too early.
So: Now I am really going to try and keep with my quota of 1 level a day (for the campaign) if I am at my pc.
I am also pleased to announce that Thaumaturge is now on board as the Lead Tester. :)
Evil_Toaster
03-01-2008, 12:25 AM
Aye, don't take it too seriously. Serious can take the fun out of anything. It's one of the reasons FFS is in hibernation. The vision I have for it is too big for the resources I have available, and I was doing a lot of stressing over making everything perfect.
Having run Cartesian Chaos through a full production cycle, I can see that I would still be busy with FFS now if I'd carried on with it. Even after 2 months of heavy polishing after the comp, I don't consider CC perfect, there's still a bunch of stuff I'd like to fix/improve in a patch at some point. We committed ourselves to a deadline and stuck to it, and now the game is out.
Considering that, if you really want to finish the game now, I'd suggest you give yourself a cut off date for finishing RT2. Run through your todo list.. eliminate features that are too big, and prioritise the rest. (In order of: Must have, Nice to have, and final touches) Then, lock down your plan and stick to it. Looking at how far along RT2 is, I believe you should easily be able to come up with a conclusive list of what you need to do to finish it. The only unplanned items you should expect are bugs/speed issues, which should be fixed as and when they're found.
With CC, all the core functionality was implemented, and all surrounding support elements are there (options, high scores, challenge modes, etc), but we did end up having to drop some features, such as funky animations when winning/losing, play history tracking, and a bunch of other things. Even without those though, the game is still technically complete. (So when prioritising, consider which elements you need to have a -complete- game)
FuzzYspo0N
03-01-2008, 12:31 AM
i agree with evil toaster. if i was to tweak the game dynamics in my little demo world forever i wud never get further in making my game, i had to set myself guidelines for what needs to be completed first, and work on polishing after the game is complete... even if its a release and u need a patch to fix the tweaks...it makes it way better in the end :)
I think the cool thing is we laern as we go, making it awesome going. so keep it up man, you doing great
Thaumaturge
03-01-2008, 06:18 AM
Hmm... I'd say that it's possible to go too far in either direction.
Pay too much heed to perfection, and you can decrease your enjoyment of the project and delay the resulting game, as as been mentioned, and, I suspect, even make mistakes and end up damaging it.
On the other hand, pay too little heed to polish, and you may do the game injustice.
I suppose that it's a matter of diminishing returns, and enjoyment taken out of the experience. If you feel that you have swung too far into the side of over-polishing, then by all means, take a step back and try to allow yourself to enjoy the process a little more. ^_^
I do like the suggestion that Evil_Toaster and FuzzYspo0N have made, of prioritising the tasks that you have left in working on Roach Toaster 2.
I am also pleased to announce that Thaumaturge is now on board as the Lead Tester.
*smiles and takes a bow, trying, with limited success, to stand between Tr00jg and what appears to be a variety of odd instruments and tools, most of them pointy, some bearing odd graduations, all made of silver and bronze, and a few set with polished crystals that carry a dull luminescence deep within* ;P
Seeing the Game.Dev article in Jan's NAG made me brim with pride again. .
... Now I'm tempted to go out and buy the January issue of NAG, just to find out what was said in this Game.Dev article. ^^;
Tr00jg
03-01-2008, 01:25 PM
... Now I'm tempted to go out and buy the January issue of NAG, just to find out what was said in this Game.Dev article. ^^;
It is just a review of the comp 11-16. It is just inspiring to see my name in print. :P
I do indeed have a conclusive list of what I want to do for it to be finished (without nice-to-haves).
Since I am starting uni this year (yay), I am uncertain what my routine is going to be like. But I shouldn't let that get in my way.
So I'm going to set up a list of stuff I need to do and determine the time it will take.
Currently, I will be aiming for April/March.
Tr00jg
03-01-2008, 02:48 PM
So, because I don't know what the year holds for me, I am setting it quite leniently for release on 30 April.
Milestone 1 is the completion of the campaign, scheduled for 29 Feb.
Milestone 2 is the completion of the bonus levels scheduled for 31 March.
Milestone 3 is the nice to have stuff, ie bonus unlockable content for the bonus levels, ie unlocking concept art, old screenies, etc. This has no date. If I manage to be done with the above stuff before-hand, I'll delve into this.
Release 30 April:
-During the rest of the time, I add polish, get the art done and setup the website.
------
So, I am really going to try and stick with this. I've had the tendency to underestimate the amount of work needed, so yeah and its the first time I have actually set up a "plan" like this.
FuzzYspo0N
03-01-2008, 02:52 PM
cool troojg thats good to hear!
You must let me know what art you need still, cos im still waiting for that other art to make the sprites etc?
otherwise, im sure you will get it done. Good luck
Tr00jg
11-01-2008, 05:19 PM
Well, I haven't changed much about the graphics since the last release (not yet). I was wondering. If I released the graphics as it is now, would it be acceptable?
FuzzYspo0N
11-01-2008, 06:44 PM
:> ill keep quiet on this one, although its bearable i am more keen to see it improve,
On the other hand! Its a much better look then the last one for sure!
Altough. its great that u asking the guys who havent worked on trying to improve the graphics cos im biased :_
looks good enough to release another demo
Gazza_N
11-01-2008, 07:48 PM
Look, there's only so far you can go with graphics in this game. It all comes down to style, quite frankly. I like the current graphical style. It's minimalist, but crisp, consistent, and sufficiently detailed that you can identify everything easily. In my mind RT2 was never meant to be a pixel-shaded parallax-mapped graphical supernova anyway.
All you need now is a little more graphical diversity in the levels (For now it's very "Grey Walls, The Grey Walls Strike Back, Return of the Gray Walls") and you'll be sorted.
Tr00jg
11-01-2008, 10:52 PM
@Fuzzy: A new demo is coming shortly (methinks).
@Gazza: So, I could go for different colour schemes? That's what I am planning on doing. :)
Cyberninja
12-01-2008, 12:21 AM
I think you need to decide on what direction you want to take, and work towards that. Your game is throwing out all types of mixed signals because your graphics are not consistent with one another. The title screen doesn't match the look of the sprites, and the interface doesn't match the look of the stages..etc. Is the game supposed to be funny, scary? What is your theme?
Take your time, sit down, and decide on what you want the player to feel/see, when they look at your game. You've got the main part (the game itself) sorted out already. So it's not going to hurt you, if you take a few days (of brainstorming) to decide on the visual route you want to take. Talk with your artist and trade ideas. April/March is a long time away. Alot can be done in that time. Take a look at the graphic styles of other games. Look at what makes them stand out and decide on whether a similar route would benefit your game or not. Sure, it all sounds like alot of work now, but it will definitely save you alot of grief in the long run. =]
FuzzYspo0N
12-01-2008, 12:39 AM
i agree on grey walling, i would only add doodads, and i wud make all the sprites "match the view" isometric, it could be. but its awesome enough none the less
Thaumaturge
12-01-2008, 06:35 AM
Hmm...
First of all, I do agree with others on the matter of variety in the levels, both in terms of wall types (city streets, house interior, government building interior, etc.) and FuzzYspo0N's mention of "doodads" (which I take to mean various items that may be strewn around levels, such as tables or statues).
As to Cyberninja's mention of mixed signals... hmm... to be honest, I don't recall noticing such a thing, but then again, I might not be susceptible to it. If you're changing some of the graphics anyway, however, it might well pay to heed his warning.
Tr00jg
12-01-2008, 12:51 PM
I think you need to decide on what direction you want to take, and work towards that. Your game is throwing out all types of mixed signals because your graphics are not consistent with one another. The title screen doesn't match the look of the sprites, and the interface doesn't match the look of the stages..etc. Is the game supposed to be funny, scary? What is your theme?
I've gotten this a lot and frankly I really really don't know what to do about it. Like Thuamaturge, I don't see the mixed signals at all, but that's probably because I've become jaded after working on it for so long.
I am totally content with the graphics. Add some doodads, bell and whistles, and some variety with the colour scheme and I'm happy.
But some people do get mixed signals and I should probably fix it... somehow...
Cyberninja
12-01-2008, 01:09 PM
Hmm...
First of all, I do agree with others on the matter of variety in the levels, both in terms of wall types (city streets, house interior, government building interior, etc.) and FuzzYspo0N's mention of "doodads" (which I take to mean various items that may be strewn around levels, such as tables or statues).
As to Cyberninja's mention of mixed signals... hmm... to be honest, I don't recall noticing such a thing, but then again, I might not be susceptible to it. If you're changing some of the graphics anyway, however, it might well pay to heed his warning.
On the title screen there is a picture of this "hardcore" dude with a gun. He has a determined look on his face. This guy means business, the insects had better watch out. There's insect goo splattered across the walls. All these elements create a dark, gloomy, threatening atmosphere. The technique used on these graphics are a combination of textures, painting, airbrushing and flat colours...
The sprites are created using flat colours only. They look clean, sharp, colourful and bold. They look almost iconic in form because of their simplicity. But do they look scary or menacing? Do they match the look of the title screen?
The main interface is done using gradients. They look very sleek and smooth in their presentation. But does it suit the mood, set by the game? Does it match the visual style of the sprites? The other menus are done using flat colours. Do they match the look of the main interface?
Do you see what I'm talking about? There's a whole lot of inconsistencies because all the graphics in the game are done using different styles. The game should have only one style/theme, and that style/theme should be present throughout the game. That will create consistency in the game because all the element will look the same.
Look. I'm not suggesting you create a Da Vinci here. All I'm saying is that you take your time and decide what direction/atmosphere/mood you want the game to take, and stick with that style. You're currently mixing and matching different styles which is destroying the harmony the game needs. Just take a time out, and write down your thoughts, it will benefit you greatly. You've already worked so long with the game, what's another few days of brainstorming?
I personally feel you should go for something, simple, colourful and clean. As Gazza pointed out earlier. But if you're happy with the way it is, then that's cool. I'm just giving you my input. =]
Gazza_N
12-01-2008, 01:12 PM
I agree with adding some doodads and colouring it up a little, but you can't spend the next year trying to find a graphical style that suits everyone. You're the lead designer Tr00jg. It's your call. :)
Tr00jg
12-01-2008, 02:17 PM
Hmm... I see what you are getting at Cyberninja. I want to do something simple, colourful and clean.
So weighing up my options, I should change the UI to something simpler (no gradients, and not so dark), and change the main menu to something simpler too... I want to keep to the main menu dude (as I paid for it with hard-earned cash). Perhaps I'll ask the artist to revise it so that he looks "happy"?
What do you think about my choices?
FuzzYspo0N
12-01-2008, 02:59 PM
lol troojg, i was offering free art to whatever specs u want :P thats unlucky! ill make the cartoony UI finish and send you it, cos i had it done but was waiting to see what u wanted to do, cos ur other friends art of the sprites i never heard about etc, i wasnt sure.
But its cool, i think there is a lot to fix, u just need consistency, its simple.
saw some cool art from lostgarden.com
that wud be awesome :>
http://lostgarden.com/uploaded_images/interiortest-733612-710514.jpg
dislekcia
12-01-2008, 06:47 PM
Cyberninja is teh awesome! (Great advice man, well said)
I agree with everything that's been raised so far, but I wouldn't worry too much about the splash guy: Simply find a way to make the menu feel like the rest of the game: If you had that same seriously hardcore dude surrounded by really cartoon roaches, it'd work very nicely in a humorous/juxtaposed way. You could even carry that style throughout the rest of the game, make the toasters overly military (I mean, they're fighting BUGS with GUNS for pete's sake!) and turn them into a huge joke. That's exactly what you did in the original roach toaster and it was something people immediately gelled with.
Things like having Sun Tsu (Art of War) or General Patton quotes between levels with cartoony roaches doing something silly would be a great continuation of that style...
-D
P.S. If, in the end, you can't get the main menu guy working for the game, rather take him out despite having paid for that art, than keep him in and force the game to feel wrong. You should be prepared to do that, just in case...
FuzzYspo0N
12-01-2008, 07:01 PM
yea i agree with dis,i will gladly 'update' your paid for menu with the exact same character,just a lighter,fitting and matching ui that works in menu and in game. is it possible to change the message boxes in game btw? thats a eye sore for me.
Tr00jg
12-01-2008, 07:30 PM
@Fuzzy: Okay kewl. I'll be awaiting the UI and menu and see what it is like. Yes, you can change the message boxes. :P.
@Dis: Great idea! Definitely! :D
FuzzYspo0N
12-01-2008, 09:39 PM
Is there a set size? if so PM me the info and ill finish it asap.
Cyberninja
13-01-2008, 01:04 AM
That is an awesome idea Dis. =]
Thaumaturge
13-01-2008, 01:48 AM
Do you see what I'm talking about?
Heh, I understood what you meant, as I recall - I just meant to note that I hadn't noticed it when playing.
I very much agree with dislekcia's suggestion for merging the style of the main menu and the style of the game itself. ^_^
Tr00jg
09-02-2008, 12:18 AM
*wipes brow*
Holy cheese. Its been a hectic few (I've lost count) weeks since uni started! I have been away from my PC longer than I thought possible.
I am still adapting to this completely new lifestyle, so until I get into a nice routine, I think I am going put aside game dev. So yeah, Roach Toaster 2 will be finished (eventually).
FuzzYspo0N
09-02-2008, 12:27 AM
AH SAD NEWS...
Hope u do well though, if its worth setting aside game.dev!
dislekcia
09-02-2008, 03:22 AM
*wipes brow*
Holy cheese. Its been a hectic few (I've lost count) weeks since uni started! I have been away from my PC longer than I thought possible.
I am still adapting to this completely new lifestyle, so until I get into a nice routine, I think I am going put aside game dev. So yeah, Roach Toaster 2 will be finished (eventually).
It's first year. You'll figure it all out in 2 more weeks and then you'll have more time than you ever thought possible... Of course, you'll spend it all chasing girls and getting drunk, but hey, at least you'll have free time ;)
-D
Thaumaturge
25-02-2008, 10:31 PM
I hope that you're managing to get a handle on things, Tr00jg. ^_^
Good luck with your studies, and enjoy university! ^_^
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