View Full Version : Jonathan Blow (Braid) talk at Nordic Game Jam - discussion
dislekcia
14-03-2008, 12:10 PM
Jonathan Blow spoke at the Nordic Game Jam (http://braid-game.com/news/?p=157) about ways to create compelling games on a student/indie budget. The talk focuses on a couple of concepts that he has identified as being important (or lacking) in game and I'd like to see what other people think of what he's saying...
Especially about the ideas of Conveyance and Pushing, but I'll leave my thoughts on those off this post until other people have listened/watched the presentation.
Also, no offense to Mr Blow, but he could really be a better public speaker ;)
-D
FuzzYspo0N
14-03-2008, 12:25 PM
im downloading it, ill edit this when watched :)
sounds interesting
EDIT :
I like what he says in general, its interesting his views on some games as an example
“It’s very easy to make the game run well in your head.”
Thats far too true, and its far too often the case with indie stuff...like even it happens where i design a concept and its feasible, its challenging, but its too much design for reality, enough for my mind. and i end up not finishing anything other than a web of complex code that cant even be used in the drawn down less-design game.
Also i think the importance of pushing is key because generic games suck, full stop. i hate seeing so many games that are indistinguishable with other games in the same genre. its like there seems to be some consensus that a story is designed on an idea that already is around, maybe pushing the idea a little, but falling backward due to complexity into yet another clone. its a personal view of course, but i think indie guys need to get into projects that really are unique, and spend time finding an idea before hacking together another clone of another idea.
I think our community does really well for creativity in ideas, im so glad for it. as a part of a number of game developer groups there is such a hellspawn of the same junk over and over and it gets so old.
Look in reality at what games are most popular, its the unique interesting ones, not the good looking ones that are similar to the 20 in the list above it... :D
blah, enough rambling. overall, i liked his seminar, and agree at the public speaking aspect , lacks something.
Afflict
19-03-2008, 01:45 AM
Interesting presentation, he could definitely be a better public speaker, but he's a game designer I think his focusing on that for now ;) be warned i listened to this some time ago and now im replying to the thread, if my memory is a little off, I'm sorry.
I like a couple of his views he has on game dev.
?It?s very easy to make the game run well in your head.?
So the truth, I can seriously see my games in my head, I even play them in my head.
Problem is that I lack the ability to make a 100% duplicate image on the pc :P Yeah it
sucks I know you all suffer from the same problem. Don't you hate it when your theme
song gets stuck in your head ;)
Games that are meaningful to people (not just ?fun?).
I like the way he says he wants games to be meaningful not just fun. That is a concept and a goal I think I would like to achieve in my games as well. Of course not mistaking that fun even mindless fun eg: grand theft auto :D should be still the no1 priority on every bodies list.
?The First One Sucks.?
I lol'd seriously the fist one generally sucks, but oh it feels so good to see it in action :D C'mon let's face it your not going to throw your first draft into the market and hope its successful, no developer in their right mind will do that. You will polish it up first? that's the only logical step here?
Anyway his section on things that kill our games is quite funny cause the only thing he blames is "too much 3d!"
Granted that all games do not need to be 3d, I think there are a lot of other issues that kill games. Especially for the indie developers. I would crucify dedication & time management first. Those in my opinion are the greatest killers, then there is of course trying to create that Monalisa i painted in my mind, problem is this few developers set realistic goals and think they can finish things in weeks/months. Well proper planning and deciding on art styles I think remain crucial to the completion of goals and the overall finishing of the game.
I'm personally starting to think that a game should be planned out at least like 80% and story boarded before you start production on anything. It's easy to get bogged down by random ideas that you try and test (this is my weakness) and losing the couple of hours you had planned for x y z on something completely non related & not thought through properly. If you have a great idea either take a 5 minute break from what you doing and brainstorm it out. Or just make a note of it and get to it in phase 2 or 3 of game production.
I feel I'm babbling too much again, but anyway let's here what the rest of you have to say.
FuzzYspo0N
19-03-2008, 12:16 PM
I'm personally starting to think that a game should be planned out at least like 80% and story boarded before you start production on anything.
This is an epic revelation as a developer. if you have a 99% design (100% at start) the 1 percent leaves for deviation/addition/subtraction of features. The problem with games and software development in general is that you should be looking at a target market, a target game concept and a target something. somewhere you need a target, not an idea only. Like making a game like GTA had a purpose. The game needed X,Y,Z to be what we wanted in the first place. whether the cars explode, or dont explode was probably not even in the original design. Its the details that can be added when the game design is completed to what the intention was.
I think there are a lot of other issues that kill games.
One thing i have always seen with your view on time management isnt usually the management of time, more the decision behind the time involved. For example, something simple in a program/game, like for example getting the map / game loading code to work .Lets say i KNOW i can do it in a week, as in within a week i know for certain it will be done. most of the time, i will add at least a quarter extra time to allow for testing and messing around. So your project goes from 10 days to 12.5 days and this can severly affect larger time scales, but thats the problem , the time scales are wrong. People think : epic game idea, making, showing and moving a sprite is easy! i can make this game in no time! its so simple its just running around. problem is there is so much involved outside of the basics that people overlook. this is a major killer..
Afflict
19-03-2008, 12:40 PM
I agree the overwhelming amount of work is barely considered when one tackles a project alone or even a two man team etc.
Games take time, people need to get use to this fact. Well if the game is going to be any good at all to draw large numbers of players anyway.
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