View Full Version : Math Attack Prototype - Feedback needed.
dislekcia
15-11-2007, 05:18 PM
Squid and I are working on a prototype of Math Attack for Mindset, they want to produce the game for cellphones and we're trying to nail down the core gameplay and make sure that we have something fun and entertaining before we sink a lot of resources into the development.
So, here's an initial version (http://www.gamedotdev.co.za/files/MA_Prototype_01.zip) for you all to mess around with and let us know what works/what doesn't work. Be as brutal as you need to be :)
Keys:
-Use the arrow keys to move around, space to select a block.
-1 to 3 select different control mechanisms, this is the primary thing we're testing in this version.
-Flashing green sparks mean you can collapse an operator. To do this, hold space and press a direction key. You'll get the hang of it.
Gameplay:
Similar to the newer version of Math Attack that Squid built, you are given three totals to try and reach any way you can. Once a row or column matches one of these totals, it will disappear, bringing new blocks... Just as a note, if you run out of operators (we don't check on spawn for balance at the moment) you can keep hitting the 2 key to re-init that control method until it gives you an operator in the buffer.
Things we'd like to know:
-Does the collapsing make sense?
-Is the block-falling mechanic right for this type of game?
-Which control method do you prefer?
-How much fun do you see this idea being and how would you expand on that?
-Impressions, other thoughts?
-D
P.S. Squid is now the second Game.Dev regular to have his work here start earning him money. That deserves congratulations!
|-|1Pp13
15-11-2007, 05:47 PM
error in
action number 1
of Draw Event
for object KeyboardSlideMover
Error in code at line 9
draw_rectangle(........
at position 35: unknown variable x
error persisted when the ignore button was pressed.
i was using the default control mechanism at the time
PS: cool idea. should work nicely! :)
i like the 3rd control the best
it took me one or three tries to figure out wat happens if the numbers larger than 9 or smaller then 0
i also got stuck when i ran out of +/-'s!
Cyberninja
15-11-2007, 05:49 PM
Congratulations Squid man! ;) Let the testing begin.
Tr00jg
15-11-2007, 08:52 PM
I agree. Control 3 is the best for me. The mark + slide.
-Does the collapsing make sense?
It makes sense to me.
-Is the block-falling mechanic right for this type of game?
Well, you have to keep it "going" somehow. I can't think of another method at the moment.
-Which control method do you prefer?
Mark+Slide.
-How much fun do you see this idea being and how would you expand on that?
Well, what are your plans for this? It is a great coffee-break game, but I see it getting stale quite quickly, unlike Sudoku or other coffee-break games. Why would I come back to it? Why would I buy it in the 1st place? It needs something to keep me at it. I would suggest something more static and puzzly. I can't really think of a great example but how about making say 4 totals and then 4 columns/rows have to satisfy all of them at the same time? I am just throwing ideas around.
-Impressions, other thoughts?
When I played the previous Math Attack, I was a tad overwhelmed at first. When it started now, it was a bit better, since there is no timer right now. I was able to take my time.
Another thing which you probably didn't expect is this:
-I was looking at the huge numbers, and thinking how the hell must I get that with just a bunch of numbers from 1-10? I only realised that the size of the numbers are determined by where the operator stands after I merged a 6+6 and saw a [1][2] popup in its place. Know what I mean?
And congrats Squid on becoming the 2nd regular to start earning money!
dislekcia
16-11-2007, 01:41 AM
New version up. (http://www.gamedotdev.co.za/files/MA_Prototype_02.zip)
Changes include:
-New buffer swap system, now default, should make more sense to players. Selectable using the 4 key.
-Highlighting of numbers during collapses, row and column matches. Should make it easier to see what's going on when you do meet a target value.
-Operators and numbers are now created according to a desired proportion. No more operator starvation.
-D
Thaumaturge
16-11-2007, 02:48 AM
I think that the falling-blocks mechanic does work for this game - it is, in a way, a sort of match-four game, made more complex by being asked to match not simply items of the same type, but items that combine to form a given target.
Hmm... perhaps, instead of always dropping tiles down, you might "drop" tiles sideways when a row is removed...
The operator collapse system does indeed makes sense, I would say, and proved to be useful at times. As to the sparks, I would suggest adding a pair of arrows to the effect, pointing towards the operator, indicating the numbers moving towards the operator - it might reinforce the message that the sparks convey.
As to the game itself, I did find that I enjoyed it. I think hat I agree with Tr00jg on the long-term appeal of the game, however - it could use something to pull a player back.
Levels of some sort, perhaps, organised to increase in difficulty? Scores can work, as for games like Snake (which I tend to want to call Nibbles :P) - perhaps score by the number of digits used (excluding padding zeros and operators, which should be detectable by position), with more digits producing a higher score, and time take, with a lower time giving a higher score.
However, I also found that I tended to go for a fairly simple solution: "write out" the target number that I had selected (usually the bottom number, I think, probably because of its position and size) in a row or column, and padding with either zeros or operators. If I lacked digits, I tended, I think, to turn to operator collapse to provide the digits that I desired.
Perhaps this could be combatted (should you desire to do so) by requiring an equation (although this could be worked around using equations that involve such things as "+0"). It should, at least, reduce the opportunities to take this shortcut, I think.
As to the control mechanism, I think that I prefer the "mark and slide" system - it feels to me to be the most fluid of the three.
P.S. Squid is now the second Game.Dev regular to have his work here start earning him money. That deserves congratulations!
Congratulations indeed, Squid! Very well done indeed. ^_^
If I may ask, Dislekcia, is this one of the things that you mentioned in the Competition 16 thread that you were excited about?
[edit] Looking at the new version - I saw it late, I know. ^^;
[edit 2] I rather like the new buffer swap system, and the highlighting is a very good addition. If you were to highlight the current item a little more visibly in the mark and slide system then I think that I would be torn between the two; as it is, I now prefer the new buffer swap system, I believe.
Squid
16-11-2007, 10:42 AM
Congratulations indeed, Squid! Very well done indeed. ^_^
And congrats Squid on becoming the 2nd regular to start earning money!
Congratulations Squid man! Let the testing begin.
Thanks guys, it really means a lot to me :D
-Which control method do you prefer?
Mark+Slide.
Just remember that Mark + Slide perturbs the grid. which could make it very annoying, especially for new players. We want less "ZOMGWTF?!?!? What happened to my equation?".
Well, what are your plans for this? It is a great coffee-break game, but I see it getting stale quite quickly, unlike Sudoku or other coffee-break games. Why would I come back to it? Why would I buy it in the 1st place? It needs something to keep me at it. I would suggest something more static and puzzly. I can't really think of a great example but how about making say 4 totals and then 4 columns/rows have to satisfy all of them at the same time? I am just throwing ideas around.
We have quite a few ideas as how to incorporate more puzzlish elements into the game. Things like special blocks, combos, blocks that get locked etc. Maybe some kind of competition against time too. We also were thinking about making it into a rhythm based games, make the player collapse stuff to a beat, things like that.
Squid
16-11-2007, 10:44 AM
Ooh also, do you think that the "Hold and press a direction" method of collapsing works? Do you thing it would work on a cellphone without a joystick? How ese could it be done?
Sorry for the late reply :P Im trying to win!
I havent had any errors so far, and I like the way its controlled. :D
Tr00jg
16-11-2007, 11:45 AM
Just remember that Mark + Slide perturbs the grid. which could make it very annoying, especially for new players. We want less "ZOMGWTF?!?!? What happened to my equation?".
Agh... I just don't like the buffer swap. When I scan through the grid, I see a possible match-up, and then I first have to drop the current number in the buffer in some odd random spot, before I can continue with my equation. I think it depends on how you approach the game.
As for the "Hold and press a direction" method:
When I first loaded up the game, and I encountered the possibility to collapse the operator, my immediate instinct was to press "space" again. Nothing happened, so I read the controls and saw that you need to "hold a direction".
I have another method. Use it, don't use it. :)
Keep the mark+slide method. If you encounter the option to collapse the operator (ie, sparkling stars), you press space (this selects it). Pressing space again causes the other tiles to fade except those you want to collapse. Then perhaps add screen pointers (like an arrow), to show that you should choose which part to collapse. Pressing space again causes it to collapse.
So yeah. That's my idea. :D
dislekcia
16-11-2007, 12:01 PM
If I may ask, Dislekcia, is this one of the things that you mentioned in the Competition 16 thread that you were excited about?
Yup. this is one of them. If this turns into a full-on mobile game project with a budget and alles, I'll be super stoked (as will Squid, I'm sure).
Thanks for all the feedback, I'll reply in more detail when I'm not rushing off to jhb...
-D
|-|1Pp13
16-11-2007, 01:37 PM
As for the "Hold and press a direction" method:
When I first loaded up the game, and I encountered the possibility to collapse the operator, my immediate instinct was to press "space" again. Nothing happened, so I read the controls and saw that you need to "hold a direction".
yup did the EXACT same thing :p
Nandrew
16-11-2007, 04:33 PM
I very much like the newest buffer option, I also thought that the original buffer option was the superior specimen amongst the three control schemes.
Regarding the collapse problem for cellphones without joysticks, however, it may be a better idea to use control scheme 1. I'd envision a system by which if you marked an operator to "swap" with itself, you get a quick dialog requesting "Collapse" or "Deselect". That's my best suggestion for finding a way around the "click-drag" issue without having to utilise any extra buttons, which I'm sure is a scenario you'd like to avoid if at all possible.
However, I should also note here that I rarely, if ever, used the operator collapse. I always seemed to do just fine without that functionality offered to me.
I'm also keen for more cues in graphics, mostly just as adjustments. Mainly, I'd like to see what would happen if all animations were a tad slower, such as falling blocks, so that the player can see exactly what is going on.
I'd also make the green "correct answer" flash quite a bit slower, especially since I've inadvertently created a correct answer a surprising amount of times, only to not even realise what it was because it flashed and disappeared before I had a chance to look at it. It's a bit distressing. :P
Finally, I want to see a dev diary of some kind on this for Dev.Mag 19. Seriously, you two must work something out to send before the end of the month so that people know this thing is in the works. ;) It'll basically be some pre-emptive advertising.
Evil_Toaster
16-11-2007, 04:54 PM
Hah! go go ET super buffer polish action team! (Note: Only D is likely to understand this.)
Cyberninja
16-11-2007, 05:10 PM
I got this error while playing:
http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/c8e554c051.png (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
Not sure what I did. :/ The game worked fine, after I pressed the ignore button.
Thaumaturge
17-11-2007, 12:58 AM
Yup. this is one of them. If this turns into a full-on mobile game project with a budget and alles, I'll be super stoked (as will Squid, I'm sure).
I would imagine so! I hope that it does indeed turn out so. ^_^
dislekcia
17-11-2007, 02:51 AM
Agh... I just don't like the buffer swap. When I scan through the grid, I see a possible match-up, and then I first have to drop the current number in the buffer in some odd random spot, before I can continue with my equation. I think it depends on how you approach the game.
As for the "Hold and press a direction" method:
When I first loaded up the game, and I encountered the possibility to collapse the operator, my immediate instinct was to press "space" again. Nothing happened, so I read the controls and saw that you need to "hold a direction".
I have another method. Use it, don't use it. :)
Keep the mark+slide method. If you encounter the option to collapse the operator (ie, sparkling stars), you press space (this selects it). Pressing space again causes the other tiles to fade except those you want to collapse. Then perhaps add screen pointers (like an arrow), to show that you should choose which part to collapse. Pressing space again causes it to collapse.
So yeah. That's my idea. :D
Curious: Why do you feel that you have to "drop" the current stored number somewhere? I just pick up the number I want and then dump it where I need it.
Thanks for the collapse method. The collapsing system is modular, just like the movement stuff, so we'll be testing out other collapse methods soon. We had a whole bunch planned for initial testing until we realised that you'd have to be able to collapse both horizontally and vertically. So that meant an emergency phone call and some quick brainstorming... As against adding another button as I was originally, it seems that might be one of the better solutions. We might even add two ;). Multiple selections of the same operator are also an option, we'll see how well that works. Holding space needs to give you some feedback, so that you know that holding it is different to just clicking... Hadn't thought of fading the blocks, good idea for clarity, not sure how well that's going to work on a cellphone - dunno if we have alpha on the specific model phone we're working for.
I very much like the newest buffer option, I also thought that the original buffer option was the superior specimen amongst the three control schemes.
Regarding the collapse problem for cellphones without joysticks, however, it may be a better idea to use control scheme 1. I'd envision a system by which if you marked an operator to "swap" with itself, you get a quick dialog requesting "Collapse" or "Deselect". That's my best suggestion for finding a way around the "click-drag" issue without having to utilise any extra buttons, which I'm sure is a scenario you'd like to avoid if at all possible.
However, I should also note here that I rarely, if ever, used the operator collapse. I always seemed to do just fine without that functionality offered to me.
I'm also keen for more cues in graphics, mostly just as adjustments. Mainly, I'd like to see what would happen if all animations were a tad slower, such as falling blocks, so that the player can see exactly what is going on.
I'd also make the green "correct answer" flash quite a bit slower, especially since I've inadvertently created a correct answer a surprising amount of times, only to not even realise what it was because it flashed and disappeared before I had a chance to look at it. It's a bit distressing. :P
Finally, I want to see a dev diary of some kind on this for Dev.Mag 19. Seriously, you two must work something out to send before the end of the month so that people know this thing is in the works. ;) It'll basically be some pre-emptive advertising.
I'd rather add another button than add a new menu ;) Interesting that you hardly used the collapse, I think it'll become important in future game modes. At the moment I tend to use it personally when I want a number that simply isn't on the board.
We can slow down the animations and flashes really easily (Yay for smart construction). Might as well put those values in an ini file so that you can experiment with them.
Would have to check with Mindset about a dev-diary. Could be cool. Will let you know.
Hah! go go ET super buffer polish action team! (Note: Only D is likely to understand this.)
Super buffer polish action team ideas are pure gold.
I got this error while playing:
http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/c8e554c051.png (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
Not sure what I did. :/ The game worked fine, after I pressed the ignore button.
Thanks, I had that bug pop up a few times, fixed it in a new but as-yet-not-uploaded version. It happens when you hold space and hit an arrow key while blocks are falling, the movement system is disabled while that's happening and so the pointer is invalid.
-D
Tr00jg
17-11-2007, 08:52 AM
Curious: Why do you feel that you have to "drop" the current stored number somewhere? I just pick up the number I want and then dump it where I need it.
-D
I think it stems from having played with Mark+Slide.
Say this was the case:
Top row:
[4][3][6][+]
I had a [0] in my buffer. I had to get 40. So now I had to just shift [4] (with Mark+Slide to the right), but with the buffer system there is needless extra steps. I have to pick up [4], dump [0].
[0][3][6][+] -> Buffer [4]
to
[0][4][6][+] -> Buffer [3]
to
[3][4][6][+] -> Buffer [0]
to
[3][4][6][0] -> Buffer [+]
to
[3][4][+][0] -> Buffer [6]
to finally
[3][4][+][6] = 40
----------
I just feel it creates needless extra steps. With mark+slide, those steps are done for you (if you know what I mean).
With the Buffer, you need more think work. I am gonna make a bad analogy here. You have to play "rugby" with 2 balls. You have to compensate with the buffer the whole time.
I hope I am making sense here. With Mark+Slide its more simplistic. You don't have an extra "problem" to worry about.
That's my opinion at least. :)
dislekcia
17-11-2007, 11:28 AM
I see. You do realise that that's a very special case scenario though? You're far more likely to want to move a number across two or three rows to make an equation. With mark and slide you'll then mess with all the values in those other rows, if you're trying to set up a combo that'll get really annoying and you'll have to do tons of pre-move set up work so that your sliding moves stuff into the right place.
Essentially there are situations that are bad for mark and slide and ones that are bad for buffering. So far the ones that are bad for buffering are far less than the ones that are bad for mark and slide. At leasts, in the tests I've done.
-D
Tr00jg
18-11-2007, 12:30 AM
Ah well. It's a tough one. I'll play with the buffer a bit more. I still keep with my analogy of playing a game with 2 balls. You have to piece together the equations with another number in "your hand". I think it adds a needless "complexity".
When you are determining an equation you don't really worry about the rest of the grid (that's me at least). I only worry about that column, so messing up the grid (with Mark+Slide) isn't an issue...
Oh well. Let me know how it turns out. :)
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.4 Copyright © 2019 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.