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View Full Version : Indie Developer Nicholas Nel needs attention.



EyeBall
09-01-2012, 05:41 AM
hi I am sory, no more nicholas nel here
.

edg3
09-01-2012, 07:54 AM
Disclaimer: please dont take anything below the wrong way, Im just trying to help out.

You need to do marketing, send out press releases, make higher quality youtube videos to show off the game play (it looks and sounds like you did a camera video of a computer screen :( ), make friends with local reporters and see if they can get you into a publication they write for.

Make a twitter account if you dont have one yet, and post about your games using the appropriate #tags, you can do this every few days in between your usual twitter postings and will generate more traffic as more people get interested in you on twitter.

Make a Facebook page for each of your games, stick up a bunch of screenshots, a link to the downloads and get your friends to spread it.

Use the current social media to your advantage.

Lastly, you should also consider investing in a visually appealing web "theme" for your site (eg: 50 free ones (http://www.noupe.com/css/50-free-css-x-html-templates.html)), people are more likely to find their own interest in your projects if your site looks like you paid a professional to do it.

Lastly, navigation wise on your site it is following an outdated model, your main content should be on your landing page, So I would have a structure something like the following:
- Main Page
- Links to: Home, Games, Content
- Content:
- - Links to your three games as screenshots, or something similar
- - Some sort of bio, more than 3 lines, but without stating the obvious "I use this site to sell games" and the likes

Then each game has its own page where you show several screenshots, link to the youtube videos, and have the paypal links on the same page.

Lastly, for your contact number, the format for international calls into SA is +0927(82)000000 I believe.

xyber
09-01-2012, 01:43 PM
... and check your grammar and spelling on the site. It looks unprofessional when you spell incorrectly or do not read over what you've posted and don't fix obvious typing errors.

onona
09-01-2012, 03:53 PM
Im struggling to get hits on my 3 major 3D games that took me a little over 3 years to complete

With all due respect, your games look 20 years old. No-one is going to buy a game that looks like that, I'm sorry to say. If you want to develop games that people want to buy, you really, really, really need to make something that looks better. As harsh as it sounds, no-one cares if your games took three years to make; they care about how good they look and how well they play.

dislekcia
09-01-2012, 04:04 PM
I really like how everyone's trying to be all nice and inoffensive and helpful, it's a credit to this forum that that's how someone like Eyeball gets treated over and over again. (Y'all are awesome, ya hear?) But, I feel like there are a few deeper issues at play here that Eyeball probably isn't addressing and being too nice is going to keep glossing over them... Eyeball, I know you'll get upset at this, but it's important that you start thinking about this stuff - and, like the others above, be aware that I'm offering you this feedback and advice in the spirit of helpfulness, so if you get annoyed and go all flamey-wamey: Stop. Calm down. Read it again. Ok? Ok.

You can polish a turd all you like, but you still end up with a piece of crap.

You have these three games. Good job getting them finished, well done on doing all your own graphics, etc. I'm sure you learned a lot, in fact, I hope you learned a lot. Because, when you honestly sit back and compare those games to things that you enjoy playing right now, how much you learned from making them is probably their only redeeming feature.

You're not getting attention because your games aren't good. Yet. No matter how much effort you put into marketing what you currently have, you're not going to suddenly have people raving over how awesome your games are. The issue is not one of simply not reaching an audience that's ready and waiting to lap up your efforts, it's that your efforts don't have an audience outside yourself (and maybe a few people around you whose blinkered support is not helping you in the long term).

Minecraft has shown us that a good game will get millions of sales no matter how crap its website is. A good game shown to 1 person is going to go viral, based purely on the merits of the game itself, not its press releases. You only need to focus on your web presence and trailers when your website is dying from traffic overloads as curious people keep pounding on it for more information. Anything before that is a waste of energy.

Style is more important than features.

I could easily be wrong, but I get the feeling that when you start developing a game, you tend to focus on this list of things you want the game to contain from a features perspective. That doesn't really help you create a style that you can use to talk to your audience... And no, trying for realism is not a style that's successful for hobbyist developers, it costs too much and if you don't get it right everything looks bad. If you look at all the successful indie games of recent years, every single one of them uses stylistic graphics and presentation in order to lower the amount of resources they need to produce.

Style is also something that will help your games stand out. "Drugged out teen power fantasies" aren't really a valid style here, I understand if you like Bone as a character, but be aware that very few other people are going to find him anything other than shallow and annoyingly stupid. Study things that ooze style continuously to give yourself ideas on what sorts of assumptions you could make (play Limbo, Braid, Frozen Synapse, World of Goo, Binding of Isaac, etc) and then slowly and methodically work your way towards establishing a fluidity with your own style. I would warn against trying to make huge stand-alone games here as well, small projects (completable in a weekend) are best for this sort of skill building. Remember, these things aren't for sale, they're for you.

Seek and learn to enjoy criticism.

I'm pretty sure we're all painfully aware of your track record with criticism...

You need to get over that childish impulse and recognise that building games should be something you do for yourself and the enjoyment of others, not because you want people to pay attention or notice you, but merely to make fun and interesting things for other people - most of whom you will never meet or interact with outside of playing the game.

Throw your early game prototypes open to experienced people (in this community and others) and ask for their advice or suggestions. I can guarantee that if you had done that with something like Bone 2, you'd have gotten a ton of help, ideas and feedback and the game would be a lot better for it. At the same time, be aware that nobody here would have probably encouraged that you keep at Bone 2 (or 3) for the simple reason that they would have - rightly - seen that your skills needed more development before you could tackle something that size AND hope to release it for profit.

I'd caution against calling yourself an indie...

Are you truly independent of outside income? Are your games paying the bills? If not, then you're not an indie.

If you're honestly trying to become a successful indie dev, then you won't get annoyed by any of these points. Then again, if you're simply trying to get more recognition for work that you feel is "good enough" so that you can feel better about something, you are (and always will be) in entirely the wrong place. I really hope the former is the truth, so it's in that hope that I've taken the time to write all this.

Good luck and here's to not getting discouraged!

BlackShipsFillt
11-01-2012, 02:38 AM
Firstly. I have to say I am impressed with what you've done. Finishing a game of the scale that you have is a huge achievement.

But secondly. That doesn't mean you'll make any money.

I don't know what audience your games are aimed at. And I have to echo exactly what Dislekcia said.

I am by no means the most inherently gifted game developer... although I have made games that have sold. But my first 10 or 20 games did not sell and could not have sold even if I had finished them.

I suppose it's something that has been said already, but it was probably a mistake for you to sink that much time into 2 or 3 games.

What I mean is: If you had made a dozen little games in the first two years and sought feedback on your ideas, and learnt from all your mistakes, then in the third year you might have made something a lot more appealing.

It's a concept that applies to ALL creative mediums... you've got 100 bad songs in you, you've got 100 bad drawings in you, you've got a 100 bad movie scripts in you... and you've got 100 bad game ideas in you (if not more because games are exceptionally complicated)

You want to execute, evaluate and learn from those ideas quickly... You want to try them out in environments where you don't risk much (like at game jams or Ludum Dares)... Don't spend months working on a game that may or may not be good, because there is a good chance it is not good.

Make a whole bunch of games and ONLY THEN work months on one of the ones that people ACTUALLY ENJOY. It doesn't cost much to prototype a game. If you cannot make it appealing to other people within a week then you should probably drop it and move on.

I'm sorry that I can't offer you advice on your current batch of games. I hope though that you can find a way forward that brings you great success.

You've got skills, but (from my perspective) you don't have much experience designing games yet... just a lot of experience finishing a couple games.

Where do you live? Why don't you come along to a game jam (like the Global Game Jam this month)... and make games with other people who can all give you feedback and (hopefully) more inspiration than you rightly know what to do with.

EyeBall
15-01-2012, 03:14 AM
hi I am sory, no more nicholas nel here

dislekcia
15-01-2012, 09:14 PM
Anyway, I will read all comments, but I fear its just because I have spent over a decade making realtime 3D instead of making friends!

I don't understand what you mean with the line above, are you saying that you think you got poor comments because those comments aren't coming from friends? If you are, I'd be a little offended, TBH...

EyeBall
15-01-2012, 10:10 PM
hi I am sory, no more nicholas nel here

BlackShipsFillt
16-01-2012, 08:24 AM
BlackShipsFillt : if you go through my site its not just 3 games, I do have much much work created over a period of 17 years, 12 years of it was spent making realtime 3D. I eventually decided to make those 3 games after I had finished learning how to make them.

So your answer to my post is: "All the advise you offered is invalidated because in fact I have made 6 games and you said I had made 3 games"?

Seriously? Was that what you took out of it?

Cyberninja
16-01-2012, 11:50 AM
It's not your marketing that's the problem. It's the quality of your games. If you focus on creating better games (and the guys in this thread have given you great advice on what you should be doing), then you will get noticed, eventually. It's like Dislekcia said, if your game is good enough, then people won't care how badly designed your website (or marketing) is, they will still visit your site to check out your game.

Having realtime 3D models is great and all, but your focus should always be on the actual gameplay, first. There's plenty of resources online, including books on game design, that show you how to create fun and addictive games. Seek out the various game development communities (like this one) and ask them whether your game is on the right track or not. Listen to the feedback and make the necessary changes, when needed. It's not just code and pixels, that make up a great game. You'd be surprised to know how much psychology goes into making some of our favorite games, whether it's Super Mario Bros 3 or Deus Ex: Human Revolution. I highly recommend watching the videos by Extra Credits. It will really help open your eyes, on what goes into making great games, from both a developer and consumer standpoint. There is no quick answer, no shortcut to creating good games. Like every other field, it takes time, research, dedication and hard work. And playtesting. Lots of playtesting.

Once you've built your great game, then you can start to worry about things like marketing and such. edg3, has already got you covered in that department.

IMPORTANT: Regarding feedback on your games. Criticism should not be taken personally. Remember, the community is there to help you improve your game. Pay special attention to the people who offer you constructive criticism. Often, your game will end up better, because of it.

EyeBall
22-01-2012, 03:47 AM
hi I am sory, no more nicholas nel here

dislekcia
25-01-2012, 05:00 PM
Hi, I have spent some time rediong my page with some of the advice I got.

www.nicholasnel.com/website/frameset/games.html

... I'm not noticing a difference? Unless you just changed the background colour and fixed some spelling errors?

EyeBall
03-02-2012, 08:45 AM
hi I am sory, no more nicholas nel here

01DT!m3r
03-02-2012, 05:37 PM
At the end of the day your website and your games are visually unappealing.I wouldn't even download them if they were free.Yes it may have taken you 3 years to make them but for those 3 years all you have is a Playstation 1 grade looking game.Instead of 3D try making a stylish ,fun and unique 2D game first.Get that game's production value up(if it has interested people behind it.)and then focus on doing 3D.It'll save you time and gather interest for your site.

EyeBall
04-02-2012, 09:35 PM
hi I am sory, no more nicholas nel here

GeometriX
04-02-2012, 10:01 PM
Dude, you need to learn to take criticism on the chin. You came here for feedback and you received it. This isn't a competition about who can do what better than you, nor is it about what you consider to be realistic. It's about what people expect when you say "I've been working on this game for X years" or whatever.

Stop being rude to those who are only trying to help at your request, learn to accept cricism, and start thinking about the big picture. Not everyone on the internet is trying to hurt your feelings. If you don't want honest feedback, don't ask for it.

Side-note: in defence of those who did give feedback, I can say without a doubt that they have gone out of their way to be nice to you, considering your past on these forums. You claiming their feedback as ****ty is a real kick in the balls to everyone who took the time to reply to you.

Flangenimblick
05-02-2012, 11:09 AM
Ah well. I tried. He can take what he wants from it, I have more important things to worry about. I hope the penny drops at some point and he realises that not everyone is out to get him.

Nicholas, in the meantime I advise you read this article:

http://ivanismo.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/haters-gonna-hate.jpg

http://zenhabits.net/how-to-accept-criticism-with-grace-and-appreciation/

BlackShipsFillt
06-02-2012, 03:13 PM
Nicholas, in the meantime I advise you read this article:
http://ivanismo.com/articles/haters-gonna-hate-understanding-your-critics-and-why-you-should-love-them

Flangenimblick I think you've been more than generous with your time, testing out Nicholas's game and giving feedback. And that you've been met by Nicholas with only insults is really sad.

However I don't think that article is very good. I've sought out and gotten a lot of feedback over the years and none of it has been what-you-are-doing-is-good-which-makes-me-feel-inadequate knee jerk reactions. Now maybe what I've been doing hasn't been that amazing, but I've also never seen criticism of any game ever that has come from people being afraid of how good a game is.

Sometimes when people criticize good games they do over-emphasize minor flaws. But that usually arrises from the game seeming really really good to them except for one or two points, and they usually say as much.

It's the job of the game designer to understand where the criticism is coming from and attempt to fix the problem where possible. In my experience nearly all criticism is useful and has allowed me to improve my games. Sometimes I have to choose one player's desires over another's, but I always desperately want to hear how people experience my games whether or not I can please them.

Actively attacking producers of games for making good games (which is something the article implies does happen) seems like a fantasy of a really paranoid uncommunicative developer and I don't think that is what is happening in Nicholas's case.

(What I mean is the article you linked could give Nicholas more inspiration for dismissing all negative feedback as simply hate... He does this already and it's not healthy behavior)

Flangenimblick
06-02-2012, 03:35 PM
Flangenimblick I think you've been more than generous with your time, testing out Nicholas's game and giving feedback. And that you've been met by Nicholas with only insults is really sad.

However I don't think that article is very good. I've sought out and gotten a lot of feedback over the years and none of it has been what-you-are-doing-is-good-which-makes-me-feel-inadequate knee jerk reactions. Now maybe what I've been doing hasn't been that amazing, but I've also never seen criticism of any game ever that has come from people being afraid of how good a game is.

Sometimes when people criticize good games they do over-emphasize minor flaws. But that usually arrises from the game seeming really really good to them except for one or two points, and they usually say as much.

It's the job of the game designer to understand where the criticism is coming from and attempt to fix the problem where possible. In my experience nearly all criticism is useful and has allowed me to improve my games. Sometimes I have to choose one player's desires over another's, but I always desperately want to hear how people experience my games whether or not I can please them.

Actively attacking producers of games for making good games (which is something the article implies does happen) seems like a fantasy of a really paranoid uncommunicative developer and I don't think that is what is happening in Nicholas's case.

(What I mean is the article you linked could give Nicholas more inspiration for dismissing all negative feedback as simply hate... He does this already and it's not healthy behavior)


Oh ****! I just realised I posted the completely wrong article!! I wanted to post the pic from the article, but not that link! The link I meant to post was this one: http://zenhabits.net/how-to-accept-criticism-with-grace-and-appreciation/

My bad everyone! Sorry Nicholas, what I posted was an entirely incorrect article! I'll edit my original post.

(Wow, I've just read the article I originally posted and it is AWFUL! Thanks for pointing it out BlackShipsFillt!)

BlackShipsFillt
06-02-2012, 07:10 PM
lol! I wondered what was up with that. That article makes sense now.

I would still go a bit further than that though. While listening to criticism is totally important and useful... in the field of game-making getting criticism is vital in order to make a game in the first place.

I mean, I don't think it is possible to make a good game in isolation. Developers absolutely need know how people other than themselves experience their games in order to make games that people other than themselves enjoy.

That's a minor point... and I guess Nicholas did actually seek out criticism and his problem has more to do with his ability to receive it than anything else. But he also sought it out WAY too late. He should have been getting people playing it and looking at the graphics as soon as possible instead of spending years and building a complex game and then only seeking feedback (and then rejecting the feedback anyway.)

Flangenimblick
06-02-2012, 07:35 PM
lol! I wondered what was up with that. That article makes sense now.

I would still go a bit further than that though. While listening to criticism is totally important and useful... in the field of game-making getting criticism is vital in order to make a game in the first place.

I mean, I don't think it is possible to make a good game in isolation. Developers absolutely need know how people other than themselves experience their games in order to make games that people other than themselves enjoy.

That's a minor point... and I guess Nicholas did actually seek out criticism and his problem has more to do with his ability to receive it than anything else. But he also sought it out WAY too late. He should have been getting people playing it and looking at the graphics as soon as possible instead of spending years and building a complex game and then only seeking feedback (and then rejecting the feedback anyway.)


Wholeheartedly agreed. I think he kept this utterly to himself and so missed out on any feedback from friends. Or ignored friends etc as well...

Games are social by nature, if you don't get an idea of how other people perceive it, then you can't understand how it should appeal to an audience beyond yourself.

I mostly posted that article so he could get an idea of what we're trying to do as friendly people trying to give him helpful feedback.

It's not too late for him though, perhaps his games yes, but he can still learn from this and go on to make something better. Just wish he wasn't so stubborn...

But yes, in agreement :)

helloserve
06-02-2012, 07:58 PM
To echo the previous two comments here - You're being unfair towards yourself if you cannot take any sort of criticism. It's the ONLY way you can learn and improve. If everybody's efforts where always 100% sell-able the first time round all of us would be millionaires within a year.
So, don't patronize them for their opinions on you and your games - take it for what it says and do some introversion from your side.