View Full Version : 20: The Gateway
Gazza_N
06-08-2008, 08:01 AM
The Myst series is hit-and-miss amongst gamers. Most just don't gel with the concept - get dumped in a world with no idea what to do, explore, and gradually work things out through observation, trial and error, and the gradual interpretation of little clues that are scattered everywhere. Not surprisingly, these games are legendary for their difficulty, and most gamers get bored quite quickly. Me, I love 'em, and the Myst puzzle paradigm is perfect for this comp.
The Gateway is like Myst. Explore an environment using nothing but your mouse cursor to move and manipulate. Solve puzzles through trial and observation, not "OH GEE I HOPE NOBODY FINDS THIS NOTE WITH MY SECURITY CODE UNWISELY WRITTEN ON IT!!1!!". Best of all, there are no written cues or clues anywhere. ;)
I'm looking small-scale here, because my time is limited. This will be a slightly expanded "escape the room" type scenario, with only two or three major puzzles, where the player is dumped into a mysterious (and small) sci-fi lab complex and must find their way out again. I'll also be replicating Myst's pre-rendered frame approach for the graphics using Blender, because it means that I can produce decent-ish art relatively quickly. After all, MSPaint just won't hack it here. :P
NEWS!!! The Gateway (http://rapidshare.com/files/140316832/TheGateway.zip.html) is up for download! (15.5 MB)
MORE NEWS!!! Final version up (http://rapidshare.com/files/141261725/TheGatewayFinal.zip.html)! (18.5MB)
Kensei
06-08-2008, 10:56 AM
Sounds awesome, Gazza_N and doable.
Will it be 3D or 2D?
Cleric
06-08-2008, 11:13 AM
That sounds great. I assume you'll be using Myst style 2D pics to show a 3D world?
Gazza_N
06-08-2008, 11:13 AM
2D slides of pre-rendered 3D locations, exactly like Myst did it. I'm looking at doing panoramic renders, so that the player can "look around" a location, almost like in Myst III and up, but not a full 360 degrees. That approach also means that I have to render less slides, but don't tell anyone that I'm cheating like that. ;)
I'll be the first to admit that copying Myst's style probably isn't the most original of ideas, but it works well with the comp concept, and I'm hoping that the puzzles and locations themselves will make up for the lack of inspiration gameplay-wise. ^^;
Fengol
06-08-2008, 12:21 PM
there had better be giant robots!
cairnswm
06-08-2008, 02:52 PM
Think of using Bryce or Vue Esprit for making your scenes.
(I have a copy of Vue Esprit 6 Pro Studio if you want to see :) )
Thaumaturge
06-08-2008, 11:52 PM
Ooh, this sounds very promising! (Admittedly, I'm rather a fan of the Myst series. ;))
Do you plan on leaning more towards Myst, and logic puzzles and exploration, or "escape the room" games, and hidden objects in sometimes-inobvious places?
By the way, have you heard that someone is apparently working on creating a Myst movie, apparently with Cyan's blessing?
I HOPE NOBODY FINDS THIS NOTE WITH MY SECURITY CODE UNWISELY WRITTEN ON IT!!1!!
You mean that that's not what one's supposed to do? :( ;P
Think of using Bryce or Vue Esprit for making your scenes.
Am I not correct in thinking that those would be better for outdoor scenes than the indoor scenes that Gazza seems to be describing?
I remember an old Vue de Sprit demo that I had once upon a time (and probably still have amongst my cover discs) - I seem to recall that it was pretty good for outdoor scenes. ^_^
cairnswm
07-08-2008, 07:11 AM
Am I not correct in thinking that those would be better for outdoor scenes than the indoor scenes that Gazza seems to be describing?
I remember an old Vue de Sprit demo that I had once upon a time (and probably still have amongst my cover discs) - I seem to recall that it was pretty good for outdoor scenes. ^_^
Can also do indoor scenes. But its true power is the outdoor scenes as it has procedural generation for outdoor objects. Indoor objects needs a bit more work in the modelling department, but its still easier than trying to do everything in a 3D modelling package (unless you know a 3D modelling packege quite well....)
The best tool to develop a game in is the one you know best :)
Thaumaturge
07-08-2008, 07:22 AM
Can also do indoor scenes. But its true power is the outdoor scenes as it has procedural generation for outdoor objects. Indoor objects needs a bit more work in the modelling department, but its still easier than trying to do everything in a 3D modelling package (unless you know a 3D modelling packege quite well....)
Really? It has, I'll admit, been a long time since I used Vue de Sprit last, I think, and that was a demo version - what does it offer that would make indoor scenes easier? I remember it being able to import external models, create primitives, work with heightmaps and create vegetation. (It also had a pretty good material system, as I recall, but that's not really relevant to the modelling side of things, I don't think.)
The best tool to develop a game in is the one you know best
On this I concur. ^_^
(Well, with qualification, at least - all other things being close to equal, that's true. Otherwise one might argue that we should never learn the use of new tools or engines. But that's rather besides the point, after all. :P)
Gazza_N
07-08-2008, 07:40 AM
Do you plan on leaning more towards Myst, and logic puzzles and exploration, or "escape the room" games, and hidden objects in sometimes-inobvious places?
A little of both, actually. The puzzles I have in mind are mainly your standard Myst "figure out how this machine works" fare, but I'll have one or two items that the player is required to find to progress.
By the way, have you heard that someone is apparently working on creating a Myst movie, apparently with Cyan's blessing?
:O
YAY!
@cairnswm: While Vue Esprit looks like it could produce some very nice stuff (I like the procedural tree and cloud generators in particular), I think I'll stick with Blender for now. It's purely on the basis that I know Blender, and I know how to achieve what I want to with it. That said, I wouldn't mind giving Vue Esprit a look. ;)
Thaumaturge
09-08-2008, 07:18 PM
A little of both, actually. The puzzles I have in mind are mainly your standard Myst "figure out how this machine works" fare, but I'll have one or two items that the player is required to find to progress.
Aah, fair enough - it sounds pretty good, then (depending on just how inobvious the hiding-places are, and whether there are any clues to them, I suppose ^^; ). ^_^
Oh, and I forget to link to the website (http://mystmovie.com/) of the project behind that Myst movie. I think that I found it via TVTropes.
It looks as though they're pouring an incredible amount of time and energy into the project, from some of what has been written in the blog - this could be something well worth seeing, should it come to fruition.
Gazza_N
20-08-2008, 08:25 AM
It's time for a status update! Wheeeee!
Development on The Gateway is staggered, but happening. The puzzles have been finalized, the world has been constructed (this took a little time), and I have a prototype up and running, so the code is in place to slip everything into. All that remains is some puzzle artwork, and then comes the arduous task of doing the final renders of all the frames I need, as well as writing the puzzle code.
I'll try and post some screenies tonight, although I appreciate that a working game would be much better. :p Who knows, at this rate I might actually submit my first complete entry for months. Here's hoping! ;)
Thaumaturge
20-08-2008, 08:19 PM
Excellent - I'm glad to hear it. It sounds as though you're well on the road to getting this finished, and I'm looking forward to seeing the result. ^_^
Gazza_N
20-08-2008, 08:32 PM
As promised, screenies:
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii48/Gazza_N/Test1.jpg
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii48/Gazza_N/Test2.jpg
I'll probably be polishing them up a little before final release, so consider them very advanced WIP.
You may mock my 3D skills in 3... 2... 1...
Thaumaturge
20-08-2008, 08:50 PM
Ooh, that's actually looking very pretty, and very in the vein of old sci-fi adventure games, I believe. I particularly like the lighting, especially in the second screenshot.
(The sci-fi setting aside, this is giving me Isis flashbacks...)
All in all, I like it! ^_^
Kensei
21-08-2008, 09:47 PM
Holy crap!
That looks ****ing awesome, Gazza_N :D Reminds me of the Interactive Fiction era of adventure games (like Dark Side of the Moon and Ripper)
Gazza_N
22-08-2008, 08:39 AM
Thanks guys. My 3D work still leaves a lot to be desired, but I'm glad that the final product isn't resulting in mental illness for the player. :p
With luck (WITH LUCK) I'll have the game finished this weekend, or at least very close to completion.
Aval4nche
22-08-2008, 08:59 AM
Looking great! I can't wait till it's done.
Kensei
22-08-2008, 11:50 AM
Thanks guys. My 3D work still leaves a lot to be desired, but I'm glad that the final product isn't resulting in mental illness for the player. :p
They keep saying I have this 'men-tal ill-ness' and putting me in padded rooms, and I am not sure they appreciate me shouting 'I AM a BISCUIT' all the time...
Thaumaturge
22-08-2008, 09:32 PM
but I'm glad that the final product isn't resulting in mental illness for the player.
Similarly, is it really wise to make that assumption from a lack of change in me? :P
To (probably badly mis-) quote Dr. Cranium: "Mad? Mad?! I'm not mad! A little annoyed at the general situation, perhaps, but not mad..." :P
Gazza_N
26-08-2008, 08:01 PM
Ladies and Gentlemen, weighing in at just over 15MB, I give you - The Gateway (http://rapidshare.com/files/140316832/TheGateway.zip.html).
Use the mouse. That is all. If you still struggle, let me know, and I'll put in a show-and-tell tutorial thingy.
Thaumaturge
26-08-2008, 08:56 PM
Ooh, excellent!
Expect feedback later tonight ("tonight" possibly including early morning, of course). ^_^
[edit] My observations:
Overall, it's pretty cool - I like it. The graphics are for the most part good, the controls for the most part work well, and overall it's a fun game. ^_^
The ending screen is amusing (especially in the spelling and grammar of the congratulatory message ;)), although I'm not sure that it doesn't include disallowed text...
Um... Is the game complete, however? ^^;
There seem to be a few items in the game that appear as though they should something, but which I have found no use for thus far (such as the machine in the first room), and the final puzzle seems to be solved by pressing a key, rather than mouse control...
I like the limited scrolling - while a little restrictive (having small boundaries makes the restriction a little more apparent than does a pure "slide-show" system, I think), I think that it does help to convey an impression of "looking around"
Am I correct in thinking that the direction in which the player faces on leaving the first door for the red passage changes after a certain point? If so, then well done - that's a good feature, and one that can make navigation a little more intuitive than it might otherwise be, I think. I'm not sure that it won't lead to some people turning around mistakenly at first, thinking that they are facing the other way, and I'm not sure that an additional screen facing the wall, and allowing the player to turn in either direction, might not be better, but this does work, I believe. ^_^
The red areas are a little dark, I find, even at night and with my lights off. For example, in the room in which the lever is found, I initially had little idea of what I was picking up (and of course seem to have no inventory screen in which to learn), which undermines problem solving, albeit only a little in this case, I think.
Some of the transitions are a little disorienting to me as a result of taking me in directions and to views that I don't initially expect, making navigation a little less easy that I might like, and the gameplay a little less intuitive. For example, in the first room, when facing towards the starting point, clicking with the mouse cursor in "forwards" mode leads to one turning around, with the disorientation enhanced I think by the similarity of the two ends. Of course, one can tell by the objects to either side, but the expectation of going forwards could easily nevertheless induce brief confusion, I think. Similarly, I seem to recall a number of places in which the "diagonal" or "turn" arrow seemed to end up taking me somewhere that I found non-intuitive.
I found three problems with the lever:
1) If one places the lever and pushes it up without having flipped the switch a section of the image (presumably corresponding with the replaced section) visibly moves out of alignment.
2) Once the lever is in place, examining it always reveals it to be down, with the player able to push it up, although this doesn't seem to affect the puzzle status.
3) It sometimes seems that it takes two clicks to push the lever up. At a guess, perhaps this is related to number two above, and the lever's state is correct, but its image not, leading to the first click setting it to be "down", and the second returning it to the "up" state, but now with the correct image.
On a note also related to number two above, I believe, it seems that the lighting of the screen facing the object besides that lever doesn't change to reflect the room's lighting, if I'm not much mistaken.
Gazza_N
27-08-2008, 07:29 AM
Solved by pressing a key? Um... No. While it seems you solved the power plant switch/lever puzzle, did you solve the others as well? The control room? The boardroom?
Unless I forgot to take out my evil cheat keys... I assume you punched the numeric keys while figuring the interface out? If so, I'm at serious fault. >.<
As for the interface, I'll try adding some extra slides in the areas you mentioned. Truth is, I was a little worried about file size, so I kept my slides to the bare minimum. I suppose a couple of extra ones won't hurt. I was worried about the corridor lighting as well, so now I have "justification" to crank it up a little. :P
That accursed lever... I could've sworn I fixed that. It worked fine while I was testing it. :( Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
Thaumaturge
27-08-2008, 08:16 AM
Aah, I see - indeed, it was a number, as I recall.
In that case, I seem to be at a bit of a loss as to how to control some of your game elements, I'm afraid, or am perhaps missing items somewhere... :/
I'll probably start it up again later and attempt to find any items that I might have missed - I only found one.
Gazza_N
27-08-2008, 08:58 AM
Hintzor: Turning the power back on has some effects on the environment. Explore a little once the power's up.
Thaumaturge
28-08-2008, 03:55 AM
Heh, I'd already figured that out, I believe - what I'd missed, it seems, was a room.
Specifically, I missed the room marked by the green circle, presumably by not "looking around" enough.
I would seem to now have finished the game properly, and I like it, although I managed to solve the final puzzle without truly understanding it.
As to the final step, so to speak, it would seem that turning away from the gateway (such as by clicking in the the "down" cursor region of the big-red-button box) leads to it being de-activated again.
I do like the gateway effect, however - well done. ^_^
Finally, the arrow indicator on the control panel just inside the one-way-mirror doesn't seem to be properly aligned.
By the way, might I suggest a transition from the "examining the light machine" screen to the "lever and blue column" screen, using the "up-and-right" cursor - I seem find it easy to end up accidentally in the former, and a little annoying to back out and move instead to my intended view, while the move "forward and right" or "turn right" seems to me as though it should fit a transition from the former to the latter fairly well.
Gazza_N
28-08-2008, 07:48 AM
Thanks Thaum. I appreciate your slogging through again. ;)
Since I'm in the process of rerendering frames to make the corridor more visible (and am therefore in the position to make changes) perhaps you could tell me exactly why you didn't understand the final puzzle? What clues (or lack thereof) threw you?
EDIT: Wait. It was the coloured crystals puzzle, wasn't it? I just realised that the clue towards that one is totally understated unless you spend time playing with the destination selection panel in the control room, which is unlikely since there is only one obviously correct destination. I know how I'll fix that one.
I'd also like to know if the item selection interface made sense. I am going to put fading icons on the screen when you pick up inventory items, just to ensure that you KNOW you've picked them up, but is the selection intuitive? I wanted to steer away from the traditional on-screen inventory, because it would be too complicated to figure out without explicit instructions.
I'm surprised that the final step is buggy. It should only allow you to turn towards the gateway once it's been activated. All other links should be dead. Seems that a lot of the link changes I do dynamically aren't registering. :\
Thanks for the transition suggestion. It shall be implemented forthwith. :)
Kensei
28-08-2008, 12:06 PM
Crap >_<
Sorry, Gaz, I will play through the game tonight and give feedback - I started playing it yesterday but I was falling asleep at the keyboard :( (waking up at 6am and being on the go since then was not cool)
Thaumaturge
28-08-2008, 09:05 PM
It's my pleasure - it's a good game, for one thing. ^_^
EDIT: Wait. It was the coloured crystals puzzle, wasn't it? I just realised that the clue towards that one is totally understated unless you spend time playing with the destination selection panel in the control room, which is unlikely since there is only one obviously correct destination. I know how I'll fix that one.
Yup, that was it, as I recall, and I believe that you are correct - as I recall I had fiddled a little with the destination panel, and happened to have left it in the correct position without having yet connected it with the big red button, I don't think.
Having all of the wrong settings be marked with red 'x's probably doesn't help. :P
I'm interested to see what fix you have in mind. ^_^
Kensei
28-08-2008, 11:21 PM
Yay! I finished the game :D
Firstly, excellent game - even for a person who generally gives up and looks for walkthroughs, I throughly enjoyed the game :)
ZOMG, your end game credits contains text, you will be disqualified, Gazz!!!
Comments...
- I liked the design, it was very apparent the difference between exploring and interacting
- Some negative feedback when you get a puzzle wrong would help, even if its a quick sound byte
- The final step is still buggy, I can still step away and the settings are lost
- I adored the 'find items in dustbin', brilliant
- Overcoming the need to text was well done :)
the rest, Thaum has mentioned
Thaumaturge
29-08-2008, 12:43 AM
I'd also like to know if the item selection interface made sense. I am going to put fading icons on the screen when you pick up inventory items, just to ensure that you KNOW you've picked them up, but is the selection intuitive? I wanted to steer away from the traditional on-screen inventory, because it would be too complicated to figure out without explicit instructions.
Oh, right, I forgot to respond to this - thankfully Kensei reminded me by doing so herself. ^^;
I found the selection to be very intuitive - as I recall I found that, as applied, I pretty much immediately realised what the icons represented.
The fading icons are a very good idea, I believe, and should improve the system well, I think.
Gazza_N
30-08-2008, 12:04 PM
Well, here we go: The Gateway final version (http://rapidshare.com/files/141261725/TheGatewayFinal.zip.html), bug-free (as far as I can tell) and ready to roll. Thanks to the addition of some extra graphics it now sits at about 19MB, so 56k and cap-conscious players beware.
Link in first post updated. Good luck to the other entrants. May the best game win! :D
Thaumaturge
31-08-2008, 05:59 AM
The red corridors are much better, I believe, and I can actually see the door to the control room. ;P
I'm also glad to say that the lever no longer appears in the incorrect state, and the lighting all seems to be correct.
As to the additional views and transitions, they do indeed seem to make navigation much more fluid intuitive, I find. ^_^
Finally, I like the icons that appear when one picks up items - they do help, I believe.
I do still think that the control room gateway panel and the big red button are a little disconnected, however. (And the directional arrow on the control panel still "moves" a little when toggled. :P)
All in all, very well done! I think that you have a pretty strong entry here. It's simple, interesting, intuitive and fun, I think. ^_^
Finally, good luck to you too! ^_^
Gazza_N
31-08-2008, 09:23 AM
I do still think that the control room gateway panel and the big red button are a little disconnected, however.
Awwww. :( I thought the the colour-coded destination buttons made it clearer, or at least helped you choose which crystal to use. Perhaps some form of piping or wiring would've strengthened the connection between the two visually. Personally, I thought that the big red button being immediately visible through the glass was enough of a pointer, but perhaps it is too vague.
In any case, Myst wasn't always clear about relationships between objects either, so there. :p
Thaumaturge
31-08-2008, 09:48 AM
Well, you do make good points, and I am short on sleep and have been fairly busy, so perhaps my perception isn't at its best.
In nay case, I think that it's less that the connection is too poor than that it's too easy to stumble unwitting on the solution.
I also don't think that it's a serious issue. ;)
Chippit
01-09-2008, 02:21 PM
Rapidshare hates me. :(
Gazza_N
01-09-2008, 02:24 PM
Curses. :( This would've gone up on Filecloset, if it weren't for that accursed 10MB limit. What sharing sites tend to work with you, Chippit? I'll post another link when I get home.
Chippit
01-09-2008, 02:59 PM
As far as I remember, only Rapidshare and Megaupload ever give me problems. The others work eventually.
Gazza_N
01-09-2008, 06:10 PM
http://www.sendspace.com/file/4h3gab
Try the above. Mehopes you won't have any problems with this one.
Chippit
01-09-2008, 06:46 PM
It works.
And now I am sad because I've finished it. :(
sambarino
02-09-2008, 04:42 PM
http://www.mediafire.com/ is my favourite file hosting site, you can dl multiple files at a time etc and has 100mb cap
Nandrew
02-09-2008, 07:06 PM
A damn strong entry, in my opinion.
The control panel puzzle that has been everyone' bugbear got to me a little too -- I feel that the puzzle should have forced players to understand it much better without allowing them to simply "stumble" upon the answer, as I did.
Otherwise, my only sadface point is that it was too short! ;_; Gawd, I had fun playing this game while it lasted though. I had "Infected Mushroom - Avratz" playing on my headphones while going through it. You have NO IDEA just how much atmosphere this song added to your game. ;)
So yeah, summary: loved it. Well done.
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