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Tr00jg
18-10-2008, 12:45 PM
Chippit passed me this link! I was in tears (of laughter). I don't know what to think! Its awesome to see someone try to dissect who I am, yet it is so lol.

http://www.gameology.org/blog/muslim_massacre_roach_toaster_and_iji_pr

It basically talks about how Roach Toaster is in the same league as Muslim Massacre.

Chippit
18-10-2008, 12:55 PM
I thought you'd enjoy that. I had myself a huge laugh.

Gazza_N
18-10-2008, 01:01 PM
[12:23] Chippit: hahaha
[12:23] Chippit: speaking of Iji
[12:23] Chippit: I actually stumbled on a very interesting link
[12:23] Chippit: Involving it, Muslim Massacre
[12:23] Chippit: And, curiously
[12:23] Chippit: Our own Roach Toaster.
[12:23] Gazza_N: :O
[12:24] *** Gowuffie has joined #nag.co.za.
[12:24] dammit: :O
[12:24] Gazza_N: NEAT!
[12:24] Chippit: Claiming them all to be prejudiced
[12:24] Chippit: It was rather lulzy
[12:24] Gazza_N: HAHAHAHAHAHAAA!
[12:24] dammit: :/
[12:24] Chippit: lemme see if I can find it.
[12:24] Gazza_N: HAHAHAHAAAAAAA!
[12:24] Gazza_N: XD XD XD
[12:24] Chippit: http://www.gameology.org/blog/muslim_massacre_roach_toaster_and_iji_pr
[12:24] Chippit: haha
[12:24] Chippit: I love this one
[12:24] Chippit: " It bears noting that Tr00jg is, at least according to his facebook page, a white South African. Without accusing the game's creator of any intentional prejudice, let's take a second look at the game. "Roach Toaster" is a game in which "elite soldiers" (as they are described on Tr00jg's page), all of whom are white, bearing equipment including rifles, shotguns, riot shields, "repeaters" (machinegun
[12:24] Chippit: s) and grenades, have to wipe out the "roach" population in various people's homes (the homeowners all have Afrikaner names). The black, semi-anthropomorphic roaches multiply every turn and will quickly overrun the player if their population isn't controlled.
[12:24] Gazza_N: Oh man. Tr00jg is infamous. That's even better than being famous.
[12:24] Chippit: "On some level, this is a game about white soldiers mowing down black South Africans in order to make the country safe for its Afrikaner elite (who still control almost all of the nation's wealth). The moral of the Power Puff Girls episode is that the biggest threat is the roach who pretends to be human makes the situation even more disturbing."
[12:25] Chippit: like
[12:25] Chippit: seriously
[12:25] Chippit: I lol'd hard
[12:25] Azimuth: wut. the. ****.
[12:25] Chippit: I should show this to tr00jg actually
[12:25] Gazza_N: That is the most creative analysis I've seen since the Oedipal Portal paper.
[12:25] Chippit: I knooow

LATER

[12:31] Gazza_N: I have an idea. Let's find other movies and games with globally universal themes, then insinuate that the creator is a heartless racist because of the history of his country.
[12:32] Kharrak: .....
[12:32] Gazza_N: For instance.
[12:32] Chippit: GOOD IDEA!
[12:32] Gazza_N: Independence Day.
[12:32] Gowuffie: Chippit... How do you get this stuff? O_o
[12:32] dammit: :O Gazza_N : your brilliance amaze me
[12:32] dammit: amazes*
[12:33] Chippit: I happened to google Roach Toaster
[12:33] Chippit: It was one of the first hits.

...

Afflict
18-10-2008, 02:32 PM
Holy six legged banana slug poop! Oh wait I also meant lulwot.

Sigh, some people have way to much time on there hands, this guy will see a frizby and claim ufo status. :P

ShadowMaster
18-10-2008, 03:33 PM
Hahaha. I'd threaten to sue for libel, just to see how he reacts :P

Tr00jg
18-10-2008, 04:39 PM
Besides the lolz, I am now certain that stuff like Shakespeare's works aren't really THAT deep. :P

Higushi
18-10-2008, 04:44 PM
HahAHAHAHAHA!!!! :D

oh my frick frick! That's quite insane... I can't believe someone would be so naive... or conspiracy-minded... or completely idiotic! That's crazy how he reads into it like that!

Nice going Troojg! You racist bastard!! :P

Nandrew
18-10-2008, 07:33 PM
Holy crap.

Kensei
18-10-2008, 09:21 PM
OMFG, Tr00jg, how DARE you make a racist game like that...

Not sure what else to say to this :p

SkinkLizzard
18-10-2008, 10:13 PM
lol game.dev members earn the the award triage
and unrelenting assault :) on that blog level :)
but yea I found it pretty funny, I especially love how people who don't know about something
write an article all the same with their assumptions in place of fact :)

Cyberninja
18-10-2008, 10:19 PM
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/6595/30849918bm8.gif (http://imageshack.us)

I ****ing loled. <

dislekcia
19-10-2008, 01:59 AM
Tr00jg, that was very well handled :)

And kudos to the rest of you, I'm loving the fact that nobody shat on the blog and got all internet-dumb in response.

Aequitas
19-10-2008, 02:54 AM
Tr00jg !

You need to change roach toaster to be less racist !!

Make the roaches color cycle, and add a hawt rave backbeat !

Dum-chickaDum-chickaDum-chickaDum-chickaDum-chickaDum-chickaDum-chickaDum-chicka

\m/

Himmler
19-10-2008, 04:54 AM
This is exactly the worlds opinion of anyone who is white, and live in South Africa.....how sad it is.

Gazza_N
19-10-2008, 10:04 AM
Tr00jg !

You need to change roach toaster to be less racist !!

Make the roaches color cycle, and add a hawt rave backbeat !

Dum-chickaDum-chickaDum-chickaDum-chickaDum-chickaDum-chickaDum-chickaDum-chicka

\m/

Yeah. Then it'll be interpreted as an allegory for drug-fueled violence. :\


"The pulsing electronic backbeat is heavily evocative of Rave culture and its infamous drug use, and the multicoloured 'Roaches' change colour psychedelically, attempting to replicate the hallucinations brought on by said drugs. The fact that your characters are wielding weapons in this environment says volumes about what the creator has himself experienced on his drug trips which, given the precision with which they are replicated in the game, must have been numerous."

Heh. That was easier to write than I thought! ;)

I've also just added my own comments to the blog, and it's nice to see the community backing Tr00jg on this. I'm keen to see how the author replies, if at all.

xyber
19-10-2008, 12:41 PM
wtf! what a lame article.

Tr00jg
19-10-2008, 02:23 PM
Hahahaha, look what I got in my email today. I'm seeing it as a joke considering it came from Isaac Newton with the email gravity_9.8

"Roach Toaster is offensive and disturbing.

I played your game Roach Toaster and found it very disturbing. I realise
that you're a white South African (according to face book) but
it is no need to get political and create a game to discharge your anger.
The music also tends to provoke anger and aggression.

If you need help e-mail me and I will be able to organise something.

Friendly regards
Isaac"

*facepalm*

Nandrew
19-10-2008, 02:45 PM
Internet people are strange. Very strange.

dislekcia
19-10-2008, 02:49 PM
You should totally lob this story at SlashDot and Kotaku: Racism alive and well in gamers' minds.

Basically say that apparently you being a white South African means that the only way you can be critically deconstructed is in the shadow of the Apartheid era. If anything, the game is based far more on a westernised idea than any local influences: Exterminators have been popularised via American TV sitcoms and shows, as such your family names are based on US ideals (Smith and Jones) and bear little to no resemblance to SA situations.

Added to that is the overly militaristic exterminators themselves, again taken from US television depictions of action, not local military or police systems. If anything, the critic is finding racist messages in a reflected version of their own cultural icons.

It pains me to imagine what the charges might have been given a truly South African cultural setting, involving Tokoloshe or something equally impenetrable to the US mind.

Tr00jg
19-10-2008, 07:29 PM
Tof and another author of the site replied.

ShadowMaster
19-10-2008, 07:49 PM
It pains me to imagine what the charges might have been given a truly South African cultural setting, involving Tokoloshe or something equally impenetrable to the US mind.

Perhaps that can be the next game.dev competition theme and we could find out ;)

Kensei
19-10-2008, 08:02 PM
Good reply Tr00jg

I am glad that you (and they) have kept this civil :)
I love this line:

The greatest reason why it could not have any apartheid links is because I didn't grow up in that era.

Azimuth
19-10-2008, 08:08 PM
These guys sound like a pair of pretentious ****s. :/

Gazza_N
19-10-2008, 08:48 PM
These guys sound like a pair of pretentious ****s. :/
Not really. They've been pretty civil so far, and they seem to be encouraging proper debate. They certainly haven't made any "no u" retorts. :P

Azimuth
19-10-2008, 09:00 PM
Nah, I meant in their original and persistent - if now somewhat subtler - interpretation of the game. I'm certainly not going to deny that text is open to interpretation (and may absolutely include many strata of metaphor), but they continue disingenuously to imply that, somehow, Tr00jg has developed a game with inherent racist undertones. It's a disservice to Tr00jg's intelligence and integrity.

Nandrew
19-10-2008, 10:02 PM
The issue is also beyond what their intents are.

They're media producers. It's not up to the reader to interpret them correctly -- it's their responsibility to guide readers in an appropriate manner without overly representing one point of view or misleading them into believing ideas that were implied, even if they weren't overtly declared.

I'm not impressed with how they've represented Tr00jg. I wish I could treat this humorously but it grinds my gears when somebody in a position of responsibility mishandles knowledge distribution like that. I can only hope that Tof genuinely gives this response some consideration and keeps issues like this in mind for future articles.

dislekcia
19-10-2008, 11:14 PM
Ask yourselves how this would have been handled if this were a South African blog?

Miktar
20-10-2008, 12:36 AM
Hey guys, you know that image of acadamia sitting around all snooty, overanalyzing **** and totally missing the point?

Now you know where it comes from.

Talk about "doin it wrong".


On some level, this is a game about white soldiers mowing down black South Africans in order to make the country safe for its Afrikaner elite (who still control almost all of the nation's wealth).

On some level, that is an author who is suffering from White Man's Guilt.

dislekcia
20-10-2008, 12:55 AM
Well, there's that term "journalistic" again. That's really not our intent here, but I see how if you came in thinking that was the case, you'd be surprised to see strongly argued points of view. This is more like a public forum in which people post their ideas in the form of commentary. If you disagree with something, you're welcome to post a comment, as indeed you have already done.

I cannot express how much this irks me. It's a cop-out, plain and simple... If you run a blog, you're a journalist. A blog is NOT a public forum, readers apply very different expectations to the two, they're completely different sources of information.

A blog post is non-editable. The first post (ie, the actual blog entry itself) always stands proud over whatever comments it might garner. You can't simply say that people are free to comment and then think that allows you to get away with misrepresentation. At the very least, you have to edit the blog article when an omission or correction is exposed via the comments because readers aren't going to go through the comments for the "truest version", that's not how you read a blog.

It is how you should read a forum though. But that site is NOT a forum. How do I get that across without simply calling them aloof douchebags and being angry? :(

Miktar
20-10-2008, 03:10 AM
I really think you should let this go. They are sensationalist liars, that much is obvious. They assigned meaning and motivation where there was none, and will now defend it to the end. You will not ever convince them otherwise, and if you do I may have to eat crow (or my hat).

SkinkLizzard
20-10-2008, 08:22 AM
You could of course make a humerous point and click adventure about two blog authors who get it hopelessly wrong :)

Nandrew
20-10-2008, 11:06 AM
I think I'd like to QFE the above three posts. They're a worthwhile summary laced with a gamedev suggestion.

Tr00jg
20-10-2008, 12:50 PM
Meh, I'm just not in the mood for this anymore... I don't really care. It was like "lol, how the hell did they deduce racism from Roach Toaster?", but that's pretty much it.

The Dash
20-10-2008, 02:10 PM
Interesting, i wonder if i can get these guys to write a creative essay on shakespear for me, im sure they can provide some interesting ides :P

overall i must congratulate everyone on how they handled it, these two people should at least put up a public apology, the baseline is that they were wrong in their assumptions about RT, nd need to accept that then rather argue about it

ShadowMaster
20-10-2008, 03:00 PM
Interesting, i wonder if i can get these guys to write a creative essay on shakespear for me, im sure they can provide some interesting ides :P

overall i must congratulate everyone on how they handled it, these two people should at least put up a public apology, the baseline is that they were wrong in their assumptions about RT, nd need to accept that then rather argue about it

QFE