BlackShipsFillt
17-01-2010, 11:04 PM
Okay... I don't know if anyone wants to give their thoughts on this, I was hearing a bit about Captain Forever before I finally played it, and, as much as I thought it was great, it kind of frustrated me.
Captain Forever (http://www.captainforever.com/captainforever.php) is the aethetic decendant of Warning Forever and Battleships Forever (http://www.wyrdysm.com/games.php) while having gameplay allot like hexcelle (http://www.kongregate.com/games/Archigeek/hexcelle).
There may be better examples of games with similar gameplay, but I like the hexcelle comparison, while Captain Forever is the superior game, both these games offer feeling powerful as a core experience (I quite liked this article about feeling powerful http://thegameprodigy.com/feeling-powerful-as-a-core-experience/) and both these games bother me for the same reason: while it's awesome upgrading and getting more powerful (especially in Captain Forever) ememies actually have the ability to permanently downgrade the player.
This, in theory, sounds like an awful idea: a shooter where you continuously levelup, and actually design your avatar, but enemies can undo your work... But this has precedent in traditional shooters where everytime the player lost a life they had to start all over, so it's actually not that radical and it does add a lot of drama to the game.
However what I don't like about it is that it means the player may feel the need to play carefully, even timidly, and in a game about getting more powerful this isn't completely satisfying.
In Captain Forever you do become vastly more powerful, but enemies who are equally powerful, or even somewhat less powerful are always an existential threat, and even become more of a threat as the game progresses because you have more to lose.
So, hypothetically, what would happen if upgrades were permanent? Like leveling up in Diablo or any RPG. You'd still be able to die, but instead of having your armaments actually disintegrate, they get disabled. This way you would often be able to escape from a losing battle with no permanent damage, though if you wait too long before fleeing you may find yourself unable to escape. To keep it balanced enemies may have to be more aggressive and be better coordinated (like seriously pursuing you, avoiding killing each other and possibly calling reinforcements), but these aren't tricky things to do.
It wouldn't change a winning game all that much... When I played Captain Forever, once I had worked out the pattern, I barely got hit at all, so it didn't matter that I would permanently lose my armaments because I didn't lose any... the problem is this isn't actually the kind of gameplay I enjoy, I enjoy shooting and being shot, timidly circling enemies isn't my style... there are those occasions where a couple of your guns get shot off but you manage to defeat an enemy and replace them so the loss is an acceptable one, this I did enjoy, this is the most dramatic part of Captain Forever and without the permanent loss it is less interesting. However without permanent loss players may often trade blow for blow with an enemy until both ships are smoldering wrecks which would never purposefully happen in Captain Forever.
So the atmosphere may be different... it would be a more casual game, the player would feel less anxious and be able to behave more recklessly... however this may come at a loss of some of the excitement... Also the game would naturally be shorter, because there would be no downgrading, so the range of power may have to be a bit extended to keep games from being too brief.
Personally I think it could work, so long as the enemies are given the same advantages and behave a bit more aggressively so as to keep the difficulty level comparable. It would appeal more to casual players and less to hardcore indie gamers, but I think Captain Forever, without the downgrading, could be a very enjoyable game.
Sorry about the soliloquy guys... if you have any thoughts on this I'm very interested, I reckon I'll build a prototype at some point, otherwise I hope I have amused you with my ramblings.
(If I were to do it I would probably make the ship design more interesting, if the components are permanent this becomes feasible, like having energy cores and energy distribution mechanics and shields and more gun types)
Captain Forever (http://www.captainforever.com/captainforever.php) is the aethetic decendant of Warning Forever and Battleships Forever (http://www.wyrdysm.com/games.php) while having gameplay allot like hexcelle (http://www.kongregate.com/games/Archigeek/hexcelle).
There may be better examples of games with similar gameplay, but I like the hexcelle comparison, while Captain Forever is the superior game, both these games offer feeling powerful as a core experience (I quite liked this article about feeling powerful http://thegameprodigy.com/feeling-powerful-as-a-core-experience/) and both these games bother me for the same reason: while it's awesome upgrading and getting more powerful (especially in Captain Forever) ememies actually have the ability to permanently downgrade the player.
This, in theory, sounds like an awful idea: a shooter where you continuously levelup, and actually design your avatar, but enemies can undo your work... But this has precedent in traditional shooters where everytime the player lost a life they had to start all over, so it's actually not that radical and it does add a lot of drama to the game.
However what I don't like about it is that it means the player may feel the need to play carefully, even timidly, and in a game about getting more powerful this isn't completely satisfying.
In Captain Forever you do become vastly more powerful, but enemies who are equally powerful, or even somewhat less powerful are always an existential threat, and even become more of a threat as the game progresses because you have more to lose.
So, hypothetically, what would happen if upgrades were permanent? Like leveling up in Diablo or any RPG. You'd still be able to die, but instead of having your armaments actually disintegrate, they get disabled. This way you would often be able to escape from a losing battle with no permanent damage, though if you wait too long before fleeing you may find yourself unable to escape. To keep it balanced enemies may have to be more aggressive and be better coordinated (like seriously pursuing you, avoiding killing each other and possibly calling reinforcements), but these aren't tricky things to do.
It wouldn't change a winning game all that much... When I played Captain Forever, once I had worked out the pattern, I barely got hit at all, so it didn't matter that I would permanently lose my armaments because I didn't lose any... the problem is this isn't actually the kind of gameplay I enjoy, I enjoy shooting and being shot, timidly circling enemies isn't my style... there are those occasions where a couple of your guns get shot off but you manage to defeat an enemy and replace them so the loss is an acceptable one, this I did enjoy, this is the most dramatic part of Captain Forever and without the permanent loss it is less interesting. However without permanent loss players may often trade blow for blow with an enemy until both ships are smoldering wrecks which would never purposefully happen in Captain Forever.
So the atmosphere may be different... it would be a more casual game, the player would feel less anxious and be able to behave more recklessly... however this may come at a loss of some of the excitement... Also the game would naturally be shorter, because there would be no downgrading, so the range of power may have to be a bit extended to keep games from being too brief.
Personally I think it could work, so long as the enemies are given the same advantages and behave a bit more aggressively so as to keep the difficulty level comparable. It would appeal more to casual players and less to hardcore indie gamers, but I think Captain Forever, without the downgrading, could be a very enjoyable game.
Sorry about the soliloquy guys... if you have any thoughts on this I'm very interested, I reckon I'll build a prototype at some point, otherwise I hope I have amused you with my ramblings.
(If I were to do it I would probably make the ship design more interesting, if the components are permanent this becomes feasible, like having energy cores and energy distribution mechanics and shields and more gun types)