View Full Version : Getting into the industry??
CiNiMoDZA
14-07-2010, 05:59 PM
So I'm currently studying development through UNISA. Im finding the work load really easy because most of the stuff I've done before. The problem is that I have to work retail to pay for my studies. This is tiring and annoying, and Im over it now. What would be the best way to get into the industry??
No one will consider me because I've never worked for a company before. Everyone is looking for a developer with 3+ years experience, and it doesn't help that I live in Durban!! I have done a few projects in C# as freelance work for a company, but I did it free of charge because it was the only way I could get something in my portfolio. Im confident in C# and everything that goes with it(WebServices, ASP, XNA etc...), but I cant get anyone to give me a chance :( I've been for a few interviews but they all looking for people with experience!
How do you get a job when you have little experience?
dammit
14-07-2010, 06:08 PM
It's not what you know, it's who you know :P.
dislekcia
14-07-2010, 06:41 PM
Make your own experience by building things that are challenging. That way you can point out what you've made to people when they ask for your experience, and if you're good and put your portfolio online, people will come to you because of your perceived skills. If you're really good at picking things to make, you might even be able to start your own company instead of bothering with working for someone else.
CiNiMoDZA
14-07-2010, 10:36 PM
Hmmm, I have a couple of little apps Ive made for fun(Sudoku solver, Conundrum solver, other random stuff). I was thinking my own company thing, I really enjoy doing mobile applications! They still a pretty new industry and working with accelerometers and stuff is fun :D Its just finances are required soon :P I have rent and studies to pay for!
Fengol
14-07-2010, 10:53 PM
I think you're on a hiding for nothing if you do your own company without experience. Remember if you start a company then you'll wear 2 hats; 1 as a game developer and another and a business owner and both require a good about of experience and sometimes they're in conflict with each other (for example adding that cool feature cause it looks cool versus balancing the cost).
My suggestion sides with Dislekcia's; make some games to build a profile. What I've heard Luke from Luma Arcade say to every student who's asked him what he's looking for in an employee is he wants someone who can finish a game and not get bored or slack because the "cool" parts are done.
willbeonekenobi
15-07-2010, 12:11 AM
If I were you I would first start with developing a mod for your favorite game if you can, as most companies tend to look at your portfolio first and then the rest of your CV. This way you get the experience of game development and as most people (I'm sure) that are currently working in the industry were modders and created levels in their spare time got them jobs working for big companies.
Take Valve for example, Gabe Newell and Mike Harrington were the only people that actually had experience in the software industry and they hired people that had worked mainly on mods to work on Half-Life 1.
As they say 'the rest is history.'
onona
15-07-2010, 01:09 AM
Please don't work for free. It not only devalues your skills, but cheapens the industry as a whole.
BlackShipsFillt
15-07-2010, 12:50 PM
My suggestion would be learn a bit of Unreal Engine or Unity and spend a week making a working game...
I mean implement something simple, even like an Astroids or a CrimsonLand or a Arcanoid clone, but make it a complete game with menus and player feedback and highscores and decent controls: polish and art and innovation are important in games obviously, but Fengol is right, it is important to see an example of a game taken from start to finish without getting bored half way...
The competitions here at Game.Dev are great opportunities to do this, also TIG source constantly has competitions/opportunities to collaborate with artists and musicians. And then there are special ones like "A Game by It's Cover" which look really interesting and of course the Great Games Experiment.
I know Tasty Poison want to hire a programmer soon, the person they're thinking of getting in has done some C# and made one really simple game which he submitted to the Appstore... right now that's about all the experience anyone not already hired and working has.
Whorse
16-07-2010, 06:37 PM
I just recently managed to get my first job in the gaming industry. I never really had the money for a degree, so I carefully selected some accredited correspondence courses and worked on some separate projects for my portfolio.
When I felt I was ready, I searched google and emailed around looking for opportunities. Eventually I found one. I think effort, passion and a solid portfolio are what really matter in this industry. A degree most certainly doesn't hurt though. ;P
Dragon-Ion
27-07-2010, 08:19 AM
It helps to know more than one language, though I can’t see the point in learning VB if you are doing C#. I myself am busy with my MCPD at CTU and I have a similar problem, without experience you can’t get a job, not a full time one anyway. But I have a little experience to share.
Two months ago I started making my own game engine using DX SDK and C#. It went well up to the point where my sky sphere stopped rendering its texture. I still haven’t fixed it and getting help from the internet is near impossible as MDX is not really supported anymore.
What I am trying to get at, I suppose, is that (and you have probably hear and read this several times) you should learn C++ if you’re gonna do serious game programming at this point of time. The reason, it’s unmanaged, and apparently unmanaged DX is good. That’s my ten cents worth.
Fengol
27-07-2010, 09:47 AM
Or, you could learn industry toolsets like Unity3D, Torque, the scripting language Lua or Python. You don't have to learn C++ but learning different types of languages is always a plus because you learn how languages work.
If you're going to learn different languages go for different types. C++ has unmanaged memory; C#, VB.NET and Java are all managed; Lua, Python and Ruby are dynamic languages which provide some interesting options. If you're feeling academic learn a functional language (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_programming) like F# or Lisp but for game developed I advise learning the tools used in the industry.
Even though you might not be an artist it would also pay to have some experience with the design tools: Maya, SoftImage, Blender, etc; at least so you know how to include their exports.
AndrewJ
27-07-2010, 04:40 PM
"Getting into the industry" from a different angle. (http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3306788/im-an-experienced-c-developer-how-can-i-enter-the-gaming-industry) Semi-kinda related, but it DOES provide a link to http://gamedev.stackexchange.com/ which I didn't know about before.
BlackShipsFillt
28-07-2010, 12:50 PM
What I am trying to get at, I suppose, is that (and you have probably hear and read this several times) you should learn C++ if you’re gonna do serious game programming at this point of time. The reason, it’s unmanaged, and apparently unmanaged DX is good. That’s my ten cents worth.
Really? There are no jobs that I know of in South Africa for C++ programmers. Yes, sure, if you're going to build engines but that simply won't happen here (profitably) for years.
Mind you, C++ isn't bad to know, but as an employer I'd rather see some experience in making games.
My suggestion is learn some middleware, Torque, Unreal or Unity. They all use some form of C# I believe. Java could be kind of useful if you want to do cell phone games for old cell phones, but frankly that's no fun.
C++ might also not be a such a bad choice if you aren't planning on working in South Africa, but it would be sad to lose another programmer, because South Africa desperately need them (we're struggling to find one right now).
CiNiMoDZA
28-07-2010, 01:49 PM
There are tons of jobs at the moment for C# developers. The problem is trying to land one of those jobs! They not even game development jobs. Just normal, simple programming jobs, doing stuff like POS systems and maybe some web based stuff.
The problem with all of these places is that even some people with degrees cant program, so they require you to have experience in a working environment before they even look at your CV. Fortunately, I have a half decent portfolio so I have managed to get a few interviews. One went really well and Im really hoping to hear from them soon!
In my opinion, C# is probably the best way to go. It is by far the best language I have ever learned! With things like XNA and Silverlight all built around it, its makes it that much more powerful!!
Sharky
28-07-2010, 06:53 PM
Hi, I'm planning on doing a BSc in computer sciences next year. Is this a good direction? I know the game industry is hard to get into, so one should have fall back options, Game dev could always be a hobby.
CiNiMoDZA
29-07-2010, 06:05 PM
Yeah, just got a call!! Landed my first job :D Gonna be doing Silverlight development for a company...
Answer to getting into the industry : PERSEVERANCE!!
dislekcia
30-07-2010, 01:49 PM
Yeah, just got a call!! Landed my first job :D Gonna be doing Silverlight development for a company...
Answer to getting into the industry : PERSEVERANCE!!
When you say "getting into the industry", do you really mean the game development industry or general IT industry?
CiNiMoDZA
30-07-2010, 06:24 PM
IT industry...sorry, my bad, I should have clarified that... =P
SpinWing
13-08-2010, 01:17 PM
Here is the short and nasty... from my perspective. (The guy who hires.)
Programmers:
1. Have the ability to code. This could be C#, Java Scripting even some Flash.
education helps, but getting your PHD in computer science will not impress me.
2. Make me a game to look at. Make a bunch! Use Unity, Game Maker anything that will do the job.
BlackShips hit it on the nose... costs too much (especially in SA), to develop an engine and spend 2 years just on the dev... most companies purchase engines and just need good code monkeys to navigate their way around in it. (Art is not important... place holders are fine.)
3. Be enthusiastic! Games rock your world and you are prepared to bleed for the chance to do what we love. This is actually very important in my books. Trolling around in forums and playing games to be kept informed. I don't have the time anymore... so I trust my guys to know more than I do.
Artists.
Same as above really...
1. Eat and sleep art and games.
2. Show a diversity in styles... if I have to see one more Manga portfolio... Argh!
3. Realize that if your art does not work in a game engine... it is no good. Nothing personal but you are a professional artist = getting paid.
4. If you are an animator. Learn the basics well... really well. You can be doing a cinematic one day then an 8 frame walk cycle the next.
Thats it for now I could go on for days, you can just ask my guys ;) ... msg me if you have questions.
Cheers!
dislekcia
13-08-2010, 05:18 PM
3. Realize that if your art does not work in a game engine... it is no good. Nothing personal but you are a professional artist = getting paid.
Seconded! This goes for everything: Code that doesn't actually do anything worthwhile for the game (no matter how neat it is) isn't useful; Sound that's too large or doesn't fit with the game's setting, same thing. I keep getting told "but that's cheating" when I explain how something works, it's not cheating if the game's fun - it's functional.
FYI, SpinWing is head honcho over at Tasty Poison (http://www.tastypoisongames.com) ;)
Chippit
14-08-2010, 03:09 PM
I keep getting told "but that's cheating" when I explain how something works, it's not cheating if the game's fun - it's functional.
Rule number 1 in game development. Everything is a trick.
dammit
14-08-2010, 03:56 PM
:o A trick?
;_; i thought it was magic. I want to believe.
FuzzYspo0N
15-08-2010, 11:38 AM
magic trick?
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