View Full Version : 24: Tabletop TF2
dammit
13-12-2009, 11:35 AM
Downloading updates getting you down? Wobbly internet connections giving you a lagging complex? Tired of playing TF2 with creepy internet stalkers? Well, fear no more! Introducing the first Tabletop TF2 that can be played in the safety of the real world with real people...
The board is designed around the Capture the Flag style of play and players get to build up their teams out of the nine available classes. Best played with four players, teams race across the board to capture the flag and battle each other in a ridiculous race to win.
Sound interesting? Here's the full rule set (January Edition) (http://www.box.net/shared/ovevoyp7d9)
Updated Rules here (October Edition) (http://www.box.net/shared/no28ptb2un).
And here's the board, lovingly designed by our very own Kharrak:
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk157/dammit62/map-1.jpg
See the next post for the deck (also designed by Kharrak, probably somewhat less lovingly because I'm a total pain to work with :P ).
dammit
13-12-2009, 11:39 AM
[Kharrak's beautifully designed deck :download at own cap's peril (http://www.box.net/shared/1sx05qn02d)
The Deck:
The deck consists of the following cards (a total of 65 cards for each team as each team has its own deck) with the following values (values and bonuses will be printed on the deck and each card will clearly indicate to which class it belongs):
[B]Scout
[1x]Baseball Bat [Value: 2; Bonus: Plus 5 if enemy token is in adjacent block]
[2x]Pistol [Value: 4; Bonus: Plus 2 if enemy token is one block away]
[2x]Shotgun [Value: 6; Bonus: Plus 1 if enemy token is in adjacent block]
[1x]Bonk Energy Drink [Ends combat and allows the scout token a free move]
Soldier
[1x]Spade [Value: 2; Bonus: Plus 5 if enemy token is in adjacent block]
[2x]Shotgun [Value: 4; Bonus: Plus 2 if enemy token is one block away]
[2x]Rocket Launcher [Value: 6; Bonus: Plus 1 if enemy token within 2 block range]
[1x]Critrawket [Value: Decided by a roll of the 10 sided dice]
Pyro
[1x]Axe [Value: 2 ; Bonus: Plus 5 if enemy token is in adjacent block]
[2x]Flare Gun [Value: 3; Bonus: Plus 3 if enemy token is one block away]
[2x]Flamethrower [Value: 6; Bonus: Plus 1 if enemy token in adjacent block]
[1x]Backburner [Value: Decided by a roll of the dice]
Demoman
[1x]Broken Rum Bottle [Value: 2; Bonus: Plus 5 if enemy token is in adjacent block]
[2x]Stickies [Value: 4; Bonus: Plus 2 if enemy token is one block away]
[2x]Grenade Launcher [Value: 6; Bonus: Plus 2 if enemy token is one block away]
[1x]Pro Pipes [Value: Decided by a roll of the dice]
Heavy
[1x]Fists [Value: 2; Bonus: Plus 5 if enemy token is in adjacent block]
[2x]Shotgun [Value: 4; Bonus: Plus 2 if enemy token is one block away]
[2x]Sasha [Value: 6; Bonus: Plus 1 if enemy token within 2 block range]
[1x]New Meat Sandwich [Equal value to opponent’s card; Plus 1 value to the card played in the next round]
Engineer
[1x]Wrench [Value: 2; Bonus: Plus 5 if enemy token is in adjacent block]
[2x]Pistol [Value: 4; Bonus: Plus 2 if enemy token is one block away]
[2x]Shotgun [Value: 4; Bonus: Plus 2 if enemy token is one block away]
[1x]Sentry Level 1 [Value: 3]
[1x]Sentry Level 2 [Value: 5]
[1x]Sentry Level 3 [Value: 7]
[1x]Dispenser [Played with a sentry card, increases sentry value by 1]
Medic
[2x]Bone Saw [Value: 2; Bonus: Plus 5 if enemy token is in adjacent block]
[2x]Needlegun [Value: 3; Bonus: Plus 3 if enemy token is two blocks away]
[1x]Kritz [Divides opponent’s next card value by 2]
[1x]Ubercharge [Ends combat and allows the medic token a free move]
Sniper
[1x]Kukri [Value: 2; Bonus: Plus 5 if enemy token is in adjacent block]
[2x]Submachine Gun [Value: 4 ; Bonus: Plus 2 if enemy token is one block away]
[2x]Rifle [Value: 6; Bonus: Plus 1 if enemy token has been in range for more than one round]
[1x]Razorback [Divides opponent’s next card value by 2]
Spy
[2x]Knife [Value: 4; Bonus: Plus 4 if enemy token is in adjacent block]
[2x]Ambassador [Value: 4; Bonus: Plus 2 if enemy token is one block away]
[1x]Cloak [Ends combat and allows the spy token a free move]
[1x]Dead Ringer [Equal value to opponent’s card; Plus 1 value to the card played in the next round]
All Class Cards
[1x] Higher Ground [Play this card with another card to increase its value by 1]
[1x] Nearby Medic [Play this card with another card to increase its value by 2 – requires a team-mate medic token to be within own token’s range]
[1x] Found Ammo [Play this card with another card to increase its value by 2]
[5x] Teleporter [Player may use this card to jump his or her token from spawn to the position of the engineer on the board. Card is returned to the deck after use and player’s turn ends.]
Thanks specifically to Chippit who helped me out loads in designing the deck.
Kharrak
14-12-2009, 04:58 PM
I'm really eager to see how this plays in execution. Particularly, the chess-like movement combined by card-combat may make things very interesting!
I do think it should remain 2-4 players though, splitting it up into anything more than four players will see each player may become bored as they wait to move their small selection of units.
dammit
16-12-2009, 05:16 PM
First play test was a success! Interestingly enough, KotH worked a whole lot better than attempts at capturing the intelligence, which is mainly due to the board design.
So, what will be changing (over the weekend which is when I'll next have a free moment):
- Board design
- Move distances as well as bonus rolls
- Number of decks to increase to 2 (ie: one per team)
- Players no longer roll to select which token to move, it's simply the player's choice.
And a few other minor adjustments to rules.
Fengol
16-12-2009, 06:12 PM
Don't forget to add images of the different movements in the rules doc :) Organised a group for this weekend to try it out
dammit
16-12-2009, 07:01 PM
:o Awesome! New rules (as detailed as I can make them) will be up by the end of friday with new board too :D
Fengol
17-12-2009, 03:43 PM
About the new movement and cards. I would like to suggest a couple of things.
1. At the start of your turn pick up a card and add it to your hand
2. Instead of rolling a die for double movement (which isn't in the real game) a player can play a class appropriate card to obtain double movement for their turn (simulating the soldier's rocket joke and demo's sticky jump)
3. If in another player's turn their character moves through your character's range you can play a class appropriate card to force them to engage in combat.
4. At the end of their turn the player must discard cards in their hand if they are over a certain limit.
All this gives your cards a lot more meaning outside of combat and also keeps them cycling through the deck. Of course there's a risk in using cards for extra movement in that you might not have enough for combat but at the same time extra movement is not abused if the other players have managed to keep enough cards to ambush you.
dammit
17-12-2009, 05:35 PM
Sounds good, I'll give it all a good look over tomorrow. Thanks.
dammit
17-12-2009, 07:38 PM
I've updated the first post with the new board design. It's quite a bit smaller than my first attempt. The changes were made mainly because getting into the opponents intel room was far too easy while getting to your own took forever. It was also too easy to avoid opponent tokens and thus combat. This should reduce these issues, though (like in everything) it needs testing!
dammit
19-12-2009, 10:58 AM
New rule set now available (link in first post)! Game play should improve immensely though I might not have time to test it myself before the day we celebrate free stuff! Keep the ideas coming, though, and if you have time to try it lemme know how it goes!
Edit: Any suggestions on how I can make tokens? I'm thinking of simply a cardboard cut out image of the class with a little extra piece of cardboard at the bottom folded to make him stand. Anyone have any better ideas?
Nandrew
19-12-2009, 06:20 PM
I prefer "coin-based" tokens, myself. They're less likely to get knocked over and crushed by a cat and/or sore loser.
dammit
19-12-2009, 07:14 PM
hmm, fair point!
AlgoRemtuti
25-12-2009, 10:47 PM
I think maybe Valve might sue you though, so perhaps change the name or something.
dislekcia
26-12-2009, 12:20 PM
I think maybe Valve might sue you though, so perhaps change the name or something.
Please ignore this outburst of uselessness. If something does happen, it will always begin with letters, which you can then respond to instead of wasting time now that would be better spent elsewhere.
dammit
28-12-2009, 06:52 PM
Small update: Minor adjustments made to the Spy Cards in the deck and I've uploaded the first decent drafts of the deck itself for printing purposes (if anyone feels so inspired) which can be found in the second post.
Still working on tokens and other issues.
dammit
06-01-2010, 07:11 PM
Been play testing for the last hour (one game of capture the flag and we're both now sitting with 2 each) and thought I'd share some of the photos :)
The Setup
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk157/dammit62/Photo-0314.jpg
A Battle
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk157/dammit62/Photo-0316.jpg
In progress
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk157/dammit62/Photo-0315.jpg
EDIT: I'd be really keen to see how this works with 4 players. Who wants to volunteer?
mgunit
06-01-2010, 11:24 PM
hey that looks fun, I'ma gna play it
Nandrew
07-01-2010, 12:31 AM
Good point dammit, wasn't there originally an idea to get quite the crew together in Durbs? What happened to that? :P
I'll see what I can do about playing it while in Durban (jury's out on that, though: hell has broken loose in the past 48 hours and I'm suddenly sitting in a rather strained position).
Failing that, I'm sure that there will be volunteers if I manage to get to Cape Town halfway through the month. )
dammit
07-01-2010, 08:43 AM
Christmas and New years holidays is what happened to the meet. Skink is also back home and not at res, so he's a bit further out for a meet right now. We'll definitely organise something though. Most probably next weekend. Hopefully I can get insomniac in too.
If you're going to CT, perhaps I can send a version of the game with you? Will save me paying for postage :P
Nandrew
07-01-2010, 03:59 PM
Haha, yeah. I'll see when I'm going and maybe I can be the courier .:P
Fengol
07-01-2010, 09:28 PM
mule you mean ;)
dammit
10-01-2010, 11:31 AM
Well, it looks like I've got a small group together willing to attempt the game next weekend though it will be minus one Nandrew. In anticipation for the great event of next saturday, I've updated the ruleset and fiddled with some of the card values. Links should now all direct to the new stuff for those curious =)
Nandrew
10-01-2010, 12:50 PM
I'm sure that I'll be able to play in CT when the judges get their hands on it. :P
Sorry about the inconvenience, the news about leaving Durbs, like, RIGHT NOWish just sprung on me a day or so ago and has sent me into a right royal tizz. All sorts of scary responsible adult admin stuff all needs to be done in one work day now. O_O
dammit
10-01-2010, 04:11 PM
heh, nothing for you to be sorry about :P Would have been rad to have your input before I send it off to Cape Town, naturally, but those of us you leave behind in Durbs should manage ;)
And yes, I hope you give it a try when it does make it's way to that other coastal city. Good luck with all that horribly icky sounding adult stuff.
dammit
14-01-2010, 10:35 AM
Sneak peek at what the cards will look like, thanks to our resident artist Kharrak (Who has basically been given full responsibility for making this game pretty :D )
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk157/dammit62/r_scout_scatter.jpg
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk157/dammit62/scout_bat.jpg
dammit
16-01-2010, 07:22 PM
Gotta thank Skinklizzard, Insomniac and LionsInnards for playtesting the game with me today :D Much appreciated! Changes that were suggested (including a teleporter card and the ability to camp) will be added into the rules and deck as soon as I get home.
What's left now is to do final editing on the cards and get a nice spiffy deck and board up to CT for serialz playtesting. Hope you guys like it :D
dammit
17-01-2010, 04:12 PM
What's been updated today:
New ruleset as been uploaded with a number of changes to the game, including Style of Play, The Deck and Camping Rules. Download, take a peak and give me any feedback you have :)
Slightly skinnier board is now in use but expect Kharrak to make it pretty some time this week (after he's finished with the decks).
Things left for me to do: Create some serious looking tokens (which will probably require paint and wood and labels), print everything out and post!
dammit
21-01-2010, 01:03 PM
Token making time! Thought i'd share some piccies :)
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk157/dammit62/Photo-0322.jpg
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk157/dammit62/Photo-0324.jpg
There are 26 pieces in total. 9 for each class per colour (so, that's 18) plus one spare each side (add 2) and then 3 smaller pieces acting as intelligence (plus 6). Still need to buy decopage stuff to label them all :)
Fengol
21-01-2010, 01:15 PM
Hell Yes! That's what I'm talking about!
dammit
22-01-2010, 05:35 PM
Stage 2: (still requiring a couple more layers of modge podge before they're done but I'm too excited to not share the first piccies!)
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk157/dammit62/Photo-0325.jpg
SkinkLizzard
22-01-2010, 09:07 PM
APPLES !
also those tokens are pretty awesome, nicely done :)
dislekcia
23-01-2010, 01:20 AM
I like how the different teams face in opposite directions ;)
dammit
23-01-2010, 04:07 PM
Thanks ^_^ . Just to note, I've uploaded the final board design and card designs. Take a squizz on page 1 of the thread.
Nandrew
27-01-2010, 09:52 PM
Can't wait to try this out! Should be awezzzome!
I'll let you know my thinkitude as soon as I get my grubby paws on it. I'm fully assuming that I'll be there when The Final Judging Play takes place :)
dammit
28-01-2010, 09:16 AM
^_^ I'm hoping you'll be there too and I'm looking forward to your thoughts on the whole set up.
However, you're not going to see the original board. Couriering the whole thing to CT just became an unreasonable expense for me, so I'll be emailing dislekcia printing instructions as my final entry. Whether he'll print out the basic board and cards or the artified versions is up to him. Either way, the rules and game are the same.
dammit
30-01-2010, 12:11 PM
I've just come home from getting all the printing done and, while I'm absolutely thrilled with the final product, I'd give a word of warning that printing it all out isn't cheap at all.
Just to make life easier for the judges, I'm putting all the info for my final entry in this post.
Tabletop TF2
The Rules (http://www.box.net/shared/ovevoyp7d9)
The Cards - Basic (http://www.box.net/shared/lbdc8uqznf)
[Requires that you print this entire set out twice, one for each team]
The Cards - Art-ified (http://www.box.net/shared/1sx05qn02d)
[These are designed to fit an A3 page. Both decks are included and colour-coded]
The Board - Basic (http://www.box.net/shared/t62v3cqef7)
[Fits onto an A2, or alternatively two A3s or four A4s]
The Board - Art-ified (http://www.box.net/shared/17fy5ox8p8)
[Fits onto an A2]
Requirements: A ten-sided dice (or something that will fulfil the same role) as well as 14 tokens
Ten-cent pieces fit perfectly onto the squares so they work quite well. Otherwise you're welcome to get a dowel stick and get it cut up into enough pieces (which is what i've done for my final tokens).
Hope you guys have fun with it ^__^
dammit
31-01-2010, 04:15 PM
Final pictures:
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk157/dammit62/Photo-0334.jpg
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk157/dammit62/Photo-0335.jpg
Nandrew
03-02-2010, 02:08 PM
Oh wow, looking veeeery nice. :D
Coincidentally, D profiled some actual TF2 gameplay for me last night. Looks like it'll be worth getting literate so I can start appreciating fan games like this properly. :P
Goraan
15-02-2010, 09:47 AM
I am commander Shepard and this is my favorite table top on the Nag Forum.
Gazza_N
15-02-2010, 11:06 AM
Gave this a shot over the weekend with five other players, and it was radsauce. The game's damn easy to pick up and play, and nobody around the table had any issues with the core gameplay (perhaps because we'd all played TF2). Some of the rules were a little fuzzy or ill-specified (such as the number of blocks for ranging), but for the most part it ran super smoothly and there was no need for rules-lawyering :P.
It should be noted that the opportunity for dickery in this game is immense, as evidenced by several awesome teleporter and spy-based manoeuvres that left us alternately rolling on the floor and wishing pure death on our opponents. Once people have the rules down, the cards let them do all manner of awesome things.
Most issues are polish issues. The character tokens could do with some additional identifiers to make them clearer (such as icons on the top of the cylinder), and some handy card-based reference materials that the players can look at regarding ranges, range patterns, movement speed, etc. would be super handy. Elaboration on range spacing would be nice too. I also found that some classes didn't feel quite like they would in the real game. Medics, for example, don't heal, since there's no health system. More ways to buff other characters would be nice (perhaps they're there, but I didn't see/use any during our session. If so, ignore this comment). A super-duper-nice-to-have would be a way to randomise maps a little, or have multiple map boards, but that's a whole new exercise in itself, and the existing map is perfectly adequate.
Overall, many funs! ^____^
zakeroph
15-02-2010, 11:12 AM
SOOOO MUCH FUN!
all i say to you is...YOINK!
Also great team mechanic, otherwise the gamplay is solid and fun, i really enjoyed it.
A few wording issues but i have already mentioned that :)
Nandrew
15-02-2010, 03:15 PM
Oooh, sounds delicious! Can't wait to give this a shot when there's time to schedule for it!
Squid
15-02-2010, 05:33 PM
Oooh, sounds delicious! Can't wait to give this a shot when there's time to schedule for it!
Is it coming to CT? If so, count me in!
dammit
15-02-2010, 06:20 PM
Is it coming to CT? If so, count me in!
Well, I did ask dislekcia if I could courier it after the 14th but he was adamant that he'd have already done all the judging before then. I could possibly still organise said courier, but it's up to D.
Also, the misunderstandings came from the bonus ranges on some of the cards. To clarify (using the engineer cards as examples):
[1x]Wrench [Value: 2; Bonus: Plus 5 if enemy token is in adjacent block]
A player will get the bonus if his/her token is in a block right next to the enemy token.
[2x]Pistol [Value: 4; Bonus: Plus 2 if enemy token is one block away]
A player will get the bonus if there is a one block space between his/her token and the enemy token.
Thanks to everyone who tried it out with me over the weekend. Comments were invaluable. Lulz were epic ;)
dislekcia
15-02-2010, 06:50 PM
Oh right. Competition's done... Completely slipped my mind, tbh ;)
dammit
21-02-2010, 10:12 PM
No couriering to CT. Decided to spend my monies on another season of House MD. I might bring the game up to CT when I'm there for UCT's open day, depending on what's happening.
dammit
06-03-2010, 08:04 PM
Epic battle pics from the Durban Devlan: Medic vs Heavy is serioz buzinez
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk157/dammit62/P1000528.jpg
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk157/dammit62/P1000527.jpg
(To explain, first round Heavy used the Sandwich, while Medic played the Kritz. This meant that the heavy had a plus 1 value for his next card but his next card value would be divided by 2 - because of the kritz. Second round, Heavy plays Higher Ground plus Sasha while Medic plays Syringe Gun and Ammo pickup. These two combinations plus the effects of the first round's cards force a third round, where the Medic is out of ammo -face down card - and so the Heavy wins with another Sasha card.)
Thanks to everyone who joined in :D
dislekcia
06-03-2010, 08:31 PM
Man, I really need to get this all printed out!
dammit
07-03-2010, 01:06 PM
Yeah, you really do :P
Gazump
08-03-2010, 10:40 AM
Epic battle pics from the Durban Devlan: Medic vs Heavy is serioz buzinez
(To explain, first round Heavy used the Sandwich, while Medic played the Kritz. This meant that the heavy had a plus 1 value for his next card but his next card value would be divided by 2 - because of the kritz. Second round, Heavy plays Higher Ground plus Sasha while Medic plays Syringe Gun and Ammo pickup. These two combinations plus the effects of the first round's cards force a third round, where the Medic is out of ammo -face down card - and so the Heavy wins with another Sasha card.)
Thanks to everyone who joined in :D
Hehe, was awesome! Most epic battle ever! I've started saving up so I can go and print the game out for myself... Don't think I can wait another 2 months for revenge :P (Good job on the design btw!)
dammit
08-03-2010, 10:47 AM
Hehe, was awesome! Most epic battle ever! I've started saving up so I can go and print the game out for myself... Don't think I can wait another 2 months for revenge :P (Good job on the design btw!)
^____^ Thank you! I had a lot of help from lots of people with the design so I cannot take all the credit.
PS: Perhaps hold off on the printing since I'm hoping to update a few aspects before the end of the month.
dammit
10-03-2010, 12:42 PM
The one main problem I've had in playing this game is the constant need to refer to the rules to double check bonus moves and ranges. Gazza suggested a quick reference sheet for each team, so here they are [arty stuff by Kharrak again :D]:
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk157/dammit62/RED.jpg
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk157/dammit62/BLU.jpg
This game looks pretty rad. I assume it'll probably be up at rAge this year?
dammit
10-03-2010, 02:50 PM
This game looks pretty rad. I assume it'll probably be up at rAge this year?
^_^ thank you. I honestly don't know if I'll be able to make rage this year, we'll see closer to the time. Presumably, dislekcia will have actually printed out a copy by Oct, but whether he feels like dragging it to JHB is another question. Time will tell.
dislekcia
10-03-2010, 07:25 PM
^_^ thank you. I honestly don't know if I'll be able to make rage this year, we'll see closer to the time. Presumably, dislekcia will have actually printed out a copy by Oct, but whether he feels like dragging it to JHB is another question. Time will tell.
Print shops are dicks. Seriously... It might actually be easier to get the whole thing re-printed at the places I know that aren't dicks up north.
I rate it'd be pretty cool to have the game projected onto a fairly large screen, with sound effects and animations galore. May make for a very unique rAge experience.
dammit
12-03-2010, 10:40 AM
Um, Zen, you realise it is an actual board game, right? I have yet to bother making it playable on a PC.
Um, Zen, you realise it is an actual board game, right? I have yet to bother making it playable on a PC.
Yes I do realise that, but animated it with the TF2 sounds would be so uber.
dammit
16-03-2010, 06:51 PM
Print shops are dicks. Seriously... It might actually be easier to get the whole thing re-printed at the places I know that aren't dicks up north.
Made any progress on this front yet?
dammit
20-03-2010, 05:28 PM
05:13 PM - XennoX: Do you think you are going to get around to animating it? :P
05:13 PM - XennoX: (Just out of curiosity)
05:14 PM - GODdammit: well
05:14 PM - GODdammit: i don't actually know if i can
05:14 PM - GODdammit: like
05:14 PM - GODdammit: i would presume the first way would be to run a single player one
05:14 PM - GODdammit: but that's a whole lot of AI
05:15 PM - GODdammit: and i know nothing about that
05:15 PM - XennoX: Hmmm
05:15 PM - GODdammit: the other would be networking
05:15 PM - GODdammit: and i know even less about that
05:15 PM - XennoX: I don't mean like create a game on the PC
05:15 PM - GODdammit: oh?
05:15 PM - XennoX: I mean like when you (hopefully) get it at rage
05:15 PM - XennoX: Create a sound board or something :)
05:15 PM - GODdammit: o.O ?
05:16 PM - GODdammit: you'll have to explain what that is
05:16 PM - GODdammit: or how you see it implemented
05:16 PM - XennoX: Like you put pressure pads or sensors underneath significant points on the board
05:16 PM - XennoX: for example
05:17 PM - XennoX: red steals blue's flag
05:17 PM - XennoX: and it plays that little jingle that is in TF2
05:17 PM - GODdammit: :o
05:17 PM - XennoX: when that said event occurs
05:17 PM - GODdammit: wow that would be cool
05:17 PM - GODdammit: but how would i get that made?
05:17 PM - GODdammit: who would make it?
05:18 PM - XennoX: I have no clue
05:18 PM - GODdammit: hahaha
05:18 PM - XennoX: but I'm sure there are a few people on the Dev forums
05:18 PM - XennoX: that'd be willing to do the software side of it
05:18 PM - GODdammit: well
05:18 PM - GODdammit: would you be so kind as to post your idea in the thread?
05:19 PM - XennoX: Thats what I did :P
05:19 PM - XennoX: Hence I asked you if you were going to animate it :P
05:20 PM - XennoX: True I guess its not the FULL idea with explanation
05:20 PM - GODdammit: yeah, you were rather vague
05:20 PM - GODdammit: :P
05:20 PM - XennoX: hehehehe
05:21 PM - XennoX: I'm usually not that vague :P
05:21 PM - XennoX: Also, a PC game /could/ be done
05:21 PM - XennoX: but not with AI
05:21 PM - XennoX: Perhaps a local PC game at first
05:21 PM - XennoX: and then it moves onto a networked game etc
05:21 PM - XennoX: Granted
05:21 PM - GODdammit: I'll need loads of help with that programming
05:21 PM - XennoX: it is a step up
05:22 PM - GODdammit: but, one thing at a time :)
05:22 PM - XennoX: indeed
05:22 PM - XennoX: :)
05:22 PM - GODdammit: But please, post your not so vague ideas on the thread. I misunderstood you first time round :P
05:24 PM - XennoX: hehehehe
05:24 PM - XennoX: Essentially how you would do it
05:24 PM - XennoX: Is you'd have your markers for lack of a better word
05:25 PM - XennoX: that would have a magnet attached to the underside of them
05:25 PM - XennoX: and when the flag square gets moved upon
05:25 PM - XennoX: there would be a coil underneath it
05:25 PM - XennoX: that would have an electrical current induced
05:25 PM - XennoX: creating a signal for the jingle to be played
05:25 PM - XennoX: :)
05:25 PM - GODdammit: that's so clever
So, anyone want to help me on either route (PC programming or mechanics of a sound board board) ?
Evil_Toaster
21-03-2010, 06:48 AM
Uh... hide a really thin keyboard under the board (riding over it a few times with your car might flatten it sufficiently), and via a complicated arrangement of levers, pulleys, elastic bands and judicious amounts of voodoo, contrive to get it to stroke particular keys when marker's are placed on certain blocks. It's quite simple after that... :P
(Nope, I have no clue about doing custom electronics...)
dammit
25-04-2010, 02:40 PM
Okay, so the game finally made it up to CT for a play test. Things didn't go quite as I'd hoped, though this probably because of the accidental cheating since I'd never played with an uneven team make up.
Very different feedback, naturally, than from the other play tests and I'm probably going to do a big overhaul of the card and range systems (they'll probably be incorporated together into the cards which would reduce the need for the reference sheets).
The tokens still need to be finished (with their symbols and move ranges added to the top).
So yeah, lots of work! Will keep this thread updated because this is a project I'm really quite proud of and enjoying working on :)
Edit: I am mildly horrified that I left CT without pics of this particular play test. :<
dislekcia
25-04-2010, 04:22 PM
Don't change the game too much, it's fun and the throwdown mechanic is rad :)
Random idea from 5 minutes ago: Have you tried simultaneous turns? Could speed up the game quite nicely.
dammit
25-04-2010, 04:40 PM
Don't change the game too much, it's fun and the throwdown mechanic is rad :)
Random idea from 5 minutes ago: Have you tried simultaneous turns? Could speed up the game quite nicely.
^_^ The mechanics won't change, I don't expect, so fear not.
I'm not really sure how simultaneous turns would work. Two people going at the same time (one red; one blue?)? How do you determine end of turn things (like refilling your hand)? Or whole teams moving together? And wouldn't that lead to all sorts of awkward... chases? Where you're expecting to move *here* and attack and someone else is moving making it hard to strategise? I'll give it some thought, definitely.
dammit
30-04-2010, 12:21 PM
Competition from Valve. (http://www.teamfortress.com/119/teams_and_fortresses.html)
Fengol
30-04-2010, 02:59 PM
I think you need to get help spamming Valve about your game!
henniedebeer
18-05-2010, 08:19 PM
This looks so good...where can I order the board? I only have an A4 printer...
dammit
18-05-2010, 09:06 PM
There are some printer shops that'll print on bigger paper :)
henniedebeer
18-05-2010, 10:15 PM
Yep. There is one in Centurion that can print up to A0, if you want to. And on all types of media, even film. (That would be so cool)
dammit
18-05-2010, 10:18 PM
Yep. There is one in Centurion that can print up to A0, if you want to. And on all types of media, even film. (That would be so cool)
Well there you go. Just download it and print it yourself. You don't need to order it from me :P
henniedebeer
18-05-2010, 10:47 PM
Well there you go. Just download it and print it yourself. You don't need to order it from me :P
Yeah... I don't live there anymore, enjoying the countryside and the finer things in life these days.
But I'll give them a call and see if they can do it.
dammit
03-10-2010, 10:40 PM
Had a flash of genius over the weekend about simultaneous play! Will sit down and make the important changes and update this thread by the end of the week. Really excited to upgrade this project :)
dislekcia
04-10-2010, 01:45 PM
This makes me happy :)
dammit
05-10-2010, 09:14 AM
Simultaneous Play
The game will require a cardboard disk with a pointer that can rotate to each of the nine segments on the disk. A round is now made up of 8 phases (since the scout has a maximum of 8 moves not including the double jump). Essentially, what will happen is a round will commence and the disk pointer will be moved to the number 1 segment. Everyone will complete their phase (options of what you can do in each phase below) and then battles will be initiated and solved. Then the pointer moves to the next segment. Tokens killed come back into play after a certain number of phases (still need to figure this one out; possibly 3 or 4 phases).
In a phase the player may do one of the following (per token):
1. move one block in any direction
2. discard and draw a card
3. declare an attack
4. move one block and declare an attack [weapon cards for that token get a minus 2]
5. engineer token may build a teleporter entrance or exit (the engineer then misses the next two phases to complete the building)
6. tokens may move onto a teleporter block (the token will be teleported in the next phase and may move off the teleporter)
Important note: Tokens still have a limited number of movements allowed per round. So, for example, the heavy has can move 4 blocks in a round. The heavy does not need to move these all at once or even at all, but may not move more than 4 blocks in a round. (This leaves 5 phases wherein the heavy is not moving).
Attacks
As above, one declares an attack in a phase. If there is a situation where a number of attacks are happening to a small number of tokens (ie: 2 tokens attack 1 token) then the person whose name is first in the alphabet solves his/her attack first, followed by the person to his/her left and so on. The next time this happens, the person whose attack was solved second (ie: was left of the first-in-alphabet person) will solve his/her attack first followed by the person to his/her left and so on.
Other
Things that are going to be changed/updated:
1. Teleporter cards will be removed and instead there will be actual teleporter tokens on the board
2. Weapon cards will have ranges and different values for distance and so on
3. More special cards will be added (not sure what yet, but i feel the need for hats :P )
4. Some other rules will be adjusted (I haven't even looked at the old rules yet and I've only just woken up so I'm just saying...)
5. With simultaneous play the medic may change a whole bunch (essentially, in an attack on a token near the medic the medic can play "booster" cards to add to the cards of the token being attacked on the board).
6. May possibly figure out how to work the spy's cloak ability.
Also, once everything is working nicely I'd love to get a video of the game in action up onto youtube or something :)
dammit
05-10-2010, 07:41 PM
I've had someone suggest another approach to the changes in the game that I'd like other people to comment on. I think I need other input because I'm biased in wanting to keep my game as I originally designed it because it's mine and not necessarily because it's the best solution :P
Essentially, the game play will work the same as above (simultaneous play) but the cards and tokens themselves will change dramatically. Each token will be equipped with a "weapon" token that it'll stand on. The enemy team will not know what that token is until a battle is initiated. This weapon will give some sort of bonus to the battle. The "weapon" could also turn out to be a disguised spy which will give some sort of spy bonus.
Cards will no longer be class specific nor weapon specific but rather environmental advantages and so on. Battles will work the same way.
Really want input here, guys, so go wild.
Kharrak
05-10-2010, 09:01 PM
Well, here's an idea. It allows for cards to be generic and all purpose, but also allows each Token type to act in a diverse manner.
Essentially, the idea is to separate action cards from the "power rating" that plays a part in the combat. Two separate card types.
On one hand, you have your action cards. You draw a hand of these at the beginning of each round.
On the other hand, you have your combat cards. You draw and expend these during each combat.
Action cards can be played at any point during combat, but only serve as modifiers to the Combat cards, and don't have a Damage Rating of their own. Combat cards are drawn from the combat deck at the beginning of each combat, and used in the classic "snap" way.
So, you find yourself in combat. You have two Action Cards which you've had since the beginning of the current round. Since combat has started, you draw five combat cards ( by default).
Your four Combat Cards have a rating of 3, 1, 4, and 7.
Your two Action Cards have the following abilities:
Sandvich: The Combat Rating of your opponents next card is reduced by two.
Flanking: The Combat Rating of your next Combat Card is reduced by two, but the combat rating of your next card is increased by four.
The player then uses the Combat Cards and Action cards in conjunction with each other, keeping in mind that Action cards can only be replenished at the beginning of the next round.
Furthermore, each Token type uses Combat Cards in a unique way.
A few examples:
Sniper
The Sniper draws x amount of Combat Cards, where x is the amount of squares between him and the target. The Sniper then chooses two cards with the highest Combat Rating.
Heavy
The Combat Rating of the Heavy's Combat Cards are lowered by 2, but increase by 1 for every Combat Card the Heavy plays.
Medic
The Medic may participate in a combat in which his patient is involved in. The Medic draws five Combat Cards, but instead plays them so that the Combat Rating of his Combat Cards are subtracted from the Combat Rating of the enemy's Combat Cards.
Spy
The Spy draws four combat cards, then chooses two of those cards, and swaps them with two cards of from the enemy's Combat Cards.
dammit
12-10-2010, 10:56 AM
I like the idea of more...complex? cards. I want to add that in anyway.
Okay, since I've had no other input in a week, I think I'm going to stick to my own plan for now. It's easier to envisage my own plan rather than someone else's, and so easier to get it working.
Hopefully I'll have something playtestable fairly soon.
Edit: As a note, the way the double jump, rocket jump etc moves will work is that you'll be able to take those extra movements in one phase. So, essentially, when everyone else is only moving one block, a scout and discard a card to be able to move three blocks. The card will have to be discarded at the beginning of the phase. You won't be able to go decide after everyone has completed their moves that you want to invoke a special move.
The person who discards a card for the sake of a special move may only refill his/her hand after all 8 movement phases (ie: the complete round) is over.
dislekcia
12-10-2010, 12:36 PM
Is there any way you could decrease the number of phases? 8 just feels overly complex right now. 3 or 4 is obviously the sweet spot, if you can get there. I'm having trouble figuring out how the movement works when split up across all those different phases.
Question: Do you have anything in mind to deal with deadlocks on movement? You have a deadlock resolution strategy (basically deciding who goes first) in a combat phase, but players might end up waiting until right at the end of their movement phase to actually move in order to be in the best position relative to each other. You could still use the same resolution strategy (or even go anti-clockwise to prevent stacking/unfairness), the main reason for the simulateous turns is removing the advantage 1 player gets from moving into combat in the same cycle while everyone else remains immobile.
It might also be a good idea to have a modified trump system that makes card selection and playing during the snap gameplay more strategic. You could base that on crits.
dammit
12-10-2010, 05:38 PM
Is there any way you could decrease the number of phases? 8 just feels overly complex right now. 3 or 4 is obviously the sweet spot, if you can get there. I'm having trouble figuring out how the movement works when split up across all those different phases.
Question: Do you have anything in mind to deal with deadlocks on movement? You have a deadlock resolution strategy (basically deciding who goes first) in a combat phase, but players might end up waiting until right at the end of their movement phase to actually move in order to be in the best position relative to each other. You could still use the same resolution strategy (or even go anti-clockwise to prevent stacking/unfairness), the main reason for the simulateous turns is removing the advantage 1 player gets from moving into combat in the same cycle while everyone else remains immobile.
This, specifically, is something i need to test out in play. I have a number of strategies in mind, but no idea how they'll work til i have a group together pushing the limits of the rules in place. 8 phases makes sense to me at this point, but again, playtests will tell.
It might also be a good idea to have a modified trump system that makes card selection and playing during the snap gameplay more strategic. You could base that on crits.
The cards will ultimately need a full make over to manage the change in the play/turns. I think I may also want to incorporate the dice more...somehow. I'm not entirely sure. Any and all suggestions of card types/values/methods of play welcome :)
Chippit
12-10-2010, 10:49 PM
I thought you didn't want to use dice?
MAKE UP YOUR MIND, WOMAN.
dammit
12-10-2010, 10:53 PM
When did i say that? :o
Chippit
12-10-2010, 10:56 PM
"the only thing this is I don't want this to be a game that ends up with everyone endlessly rolling dice"
Okay, seems I slightly exaggerated what you meant. Don't mind me. It was almost a year ago, okay!
dammit
12-10-2010, 10:57 PM
haha, yes, but I did end up including a dice in the game anyway. You should know that, since you played it :P
Chippit
12-10-2010, 10:59 PM
I... don't actually remember ever rolling a dice.
dammit
12-10-2010, 11:01 PM
;_;
I remember you rolling my nifty 10 sided dice.
Chippit
12-10-2010, 11:03 PM
The only rolling I remember was unrolling the board...
I think you broke my memory! GIVE IT BACK!
dislekcia
12-10-2010, 11:36 PM
That board required epic unrollings....
dammit
12-10-2010, 11:43 PM
Perhaps all cards should have a bonus value only, and you roll for initial value? Or roll for bonus (doesn't make a difference?)
I'm also thinking of 2 decks per team. One for weapons. One for...other stuff. The other stuff being able to be played after the rolls. So..snap first two cards down. Roll for each. Then bam, 'nother card if you need it.
...though, the rolling then makes it less like snap.
Gawd damned complicated game. Why didn't I just make a tetris boardgame?
SkinkLizzard
12-10-2010, 11:50 PM
because a TF2 board game is probably easier to make sort of true to the original ?
perhaps you should have a roll modifier so you roll to check modifiers then snap away,
this can count for critical hits and well uh dodging perhaps.
roll a <whatever number> get 2x crit, roll a <some other number> get a Shocking aim 1/2x damage penalty
or roll an <everything else> and proceed as normal.
dammit
12-10-2010, 11:52 PM
Ooo, I like :D
dammit
14-10-2010, 06:17 PM
Another thing I want to add to the game, while I'm thinking of it, is that when a token spawns (ie: they've been killed and so now they've wasted time being dead and have respawned in the spawn pit) they get to draw a card and move. This would make sense, given that they've got unlimited ammo and health in the room, so they get a little more to carry around with them.
As for the card values, here's another option too (which dislekcia suggested shortly after trying the game) is that there should be different values for the cards based on attack versus defence (ie: a knife attack > knife defence and so on). The possibilities are to either stick to the current system of a given static value (one for attack and one for defence) or work dice into the equation. Having had more experience now with dice board games, i'm not so anti the idea of rolling for attacks. This is also because you're not necessarily attacking/defending on every turn, so the game isn't stop start with dice rolling.
So, for example, the spy knife could have a 1d10+4 for attack and a 1d10-4 for defence. The cards still may have bonuses on them, but the values will be lower (plus 2 for adjacent block with knife for example, regardless of attack/defence).
One question: are more dice better? My thoughts are a maximum of two anyway, but that's because i think one dice may be easier to keep track of.
dammit
14-10-2010, 07:05 PM
Update: Official changes to the rules
Simultaneous Play
The game is divided into rounds and each round is made up of 8 phases. Before the first round can begin, one player from each team need to roll the dice to determine which team will have the first advantage. The advantage, which allows that team to move first, lasts for one phase and is then given to the opposing team. For example, if the Red Team wins the dice roll they have the advantage for the first phase but the Blu Team will have that advantage for the second phase and so on.
To begin the first round of play, place the counter token (striped token) on to the phase board on the number one block. Players take turns based on the tokens they have and the team that has the advantage. The order that tokens take their turn is:
1. Scout
2. Pyro
3. Soldier
4. Engineer
5. Demoman
6. Heavy
7. Spy
8. Medic
9. Sniper
So, for example, the team with the advantage can take their scout’s turn first. The second token to take its turn will be the scout from the team without the advantage. The third token to take a turn will be the pyro from the team with the advantage and so on.
In a phase the player may do one of the following (per token):
1. Move one block in any direction (limited by the number of movements allowed per round for each token)
2. Discard and draw a card
3. Declare an attack (attack is solved before the next phase and replacement cards are drawn at the start of the next phase)
4. Move one block and declare an attack [weapon cards for that token get a minus 1]
5. Engineer token may build a teleporter entrance or exit (the engineer then misses the next two phases to complete the building)
6. Tokens may move onto a teleporter block (the token will be teleported in the next phase and may move off the teleporter provided both entrances and exits have been built)
7. Move a token into the spawn pit and draw a card
8. Attack an enemy teleporter entrance or exit (nearby players may choose to defend the teleporter and that would need to be completed first before the attack on the teleporter which obviously has no defence)
9. Discard a card for a special move (this will allow the token to move more than one block in a turn)
Important note: Tokens still have a limited number of movements allowed per round. So, for example, the heavy has can move 4 blocks in a round. The heavy does not need to move these all at once or even at all, but may not move more than 4 blocks in a round. (This leaves 4 phases wherein the heavy is not moving).
Once both the snipers have made their moves and all attacks have been declared and completed, the phase is complete. Players that need to draw cards should do so now. The striped token is then moved to the number 2 space on the phase board, advantage is given to the other team and the second phase begins.
Token/Class General and Special Moves:
Each token/class is assigned a maximum number of spaces it can be moved (not including special moves) per round. The player does not have to move the token the maximum spaces and may also change the token’s direction at any time during the round. Not all classes have special moves.
Scout – 8 blocks - Special Move: Double Jump – 3 spaces.
Pyro – 6 blocks - Special Move: Airblast - 2 spaces.
Soldier – 5 blocks - Special Move: Rocket Jump – 4 spaces.
Demoman – 5 blocks - Special Move: Sticky Jump – 4 spaces.
Engineer – 5 blocks
Heavy – 4 blocks
Medic – 6 blocks
Sniper – 6 blocks
Spy – 6 blocks
Note: Any card or action described in this rule set as a “free move” means that that token has the option of a moving half of its maximum movement allowance before the next phase begins. Eg: A scout getting a free move from the “Bonk” card allows the scout to move 4 blocks before the next phase. A free move counts as a single move. That is, if the scout has moved 2 blocks over two phases and then uses the bonk card to move another 4, the scout will only have used up a total of 3 moves (and is still allowed another 5 moves during the following phases, plus a special move).
dammit
14-10-2010, 07:12 PM
I still need to, obviously, make up the phase board but it's not very difficult to picture. I may add a space (and a token) to represent which team has the advantage as well as a respawning block area. The respawning block area will have a certain number of blocks (i'm figuring three at this stage) and if your token is waiting to respawn he sits on a block and moves one block per phase until he's back in the respawn pit. This will help to keep track of those dead guys :P
dislekcia
14-10-2010, 08:43 PM
What about simplifying the structure a little bit and going with discrete turns in a specific token order:
Scout
Pyro
Medic
Demo
Scout
Soldier
Medic
Heavy
Spy
Demo
Scout
Pyro
Sniper
Which then repeats. The idea is that when it's that token's turn, the player who owns that token either moves a specific number of spaces, picks up a card or attacks. That's all you can do, those three choices. The whole point of the different classes showing up multiple times is that scouts get to do more in a round, but have weaker cards, for instance.
For added bonus awesome, you could even have the token order represented by a special deck of order cards (with 3 scout cards, 2 demo cards, 2 pyro cards and the rest 1) which is then re-shuffled every time it's empty. That way there's a tactical element to ordering and "turn-card" counting...
Finally, I think you need to pick your combat mechanic: Either have a complex rock-paper-scissors meets snap style (with optional attack/defense numbers), a bridge-style trump calling and set winning system (so to kill a scout you need to take 2 sets against it, a heavy "fires" 5 times, so 5 sets when he attacks) or a die system that uses different attack rolls and uses random fluctuations for fun/balance.
In order to streamline things, I think you need to say "How could we play this game with the fewest rules possible", that's why I'm a big proponent of removing less phases. Token turns dictated by a shuffled deck with 1 choice per turn really work for me. Someone could use a scout to mill for a heavy (obviously heavies would do huge numbers of attacks, while soldiers would do epic damage, etc.) or various other interesting skills, like hoping the medic's turn comes early this round so that you can ubercharge a specific unit before it's that unit's turn... Blah. I hope I'm getting this idea across.
dammit
14-10-2010, 09:52 PM
I'll keep all of that in mind. I do want to play test my ideas first so I can see first hand how well/badly they play out (best way to learn, imho, especially since I'm very very new to board game building still :D ) and move from there. I think I might be able to set up a group sometime next week. Will let you know how that goes down :)
dislekcia
14-10-2010, 10:35 PM
I'll keep all of that in mind. I do want to play test my ideas first so I can see first hand how well/badly they play out (best way to learn, imho, especially since I'm very very new to board game building still :D ) and move from there. I think I might be able to set up a group sometime next week. Will let you know how that goes down :)
Sweet. Playtesting FTW :)
For what it's worth, a deck of cards where you cycle the front card to the back is a great way to keep track of phases. Especially because it lets you adjust phases on the fly where a board/spinner might not let you.
dammit
19-10-2010, 10:37 AM
Mebbe, and this is from 4am sleepless creative thinking, each team should have a separate deck for each class and one more deck for "other" or special cards. That way, when you choose to draw a card, you have some say in the strategy of that decision. This also makes having a heavy on the team useful, because a lot of his phases can be used to pick up cards and one doesn't necessarily have to pick up heavy cards. Thus, you could send your scout out moving through all his phases and fill your hand with scout cards at the same time during the heavy's phases. You could also change your hand dramatically with the special cards.
This would, however, in my mind mean that I need to make the decks larger since you'd work through the roughly 7 cards per class rather quickly.
Also, I've updated the first post to share the new ruleset, should anyone be interested in downloading it. (Available here too (http://www.box.net/shared/no28ptb2un) :P )
dammit
19-10-2010, 11:38 AM
Looking at updating the deck/s, here are the list of weapons and alternative cards:
Scout
1. Scattergun
2. Force of Nature
3. Pistol
4. Bonk! Atomic Punch
5. Sandman
6. Baseball bat
Soldier
1. Rocket Launcher
2. Direct Hit
3. Shotgun
4. Buff Banner
5. Shovel
6. Equalizer
Pyro
1. Flamethrower
2. Backburner
3. Flare gun
4. Fire Axe
5. Axestinguisher
6. Home wrecker
Demoman
1. Grenade Launcher
2. Sticky bomb launcher
3. Scottish Resistance
4. Charging Targe
5. Rum Bottle
6. Eyelander
Heavy
1. Minigun
2. Natasha
3. Sandvich
4. Dalokohs bar
5. Fists
6. K.G.B
Engineer
1. Shotgun
2. Frontier of Justice
3. Wrangler
4. Wrench
5. Gunslinger
6. Southern hospitality
7. Build Teleporter
8. Sentry level 1
9. Sentry level 2
10. Sentry level 3
Medic
1. Syringe Gun
2. Blutsauger
3. Medigun <decrease nearby attacking/defending enemy’s card values>
4. Kritzkrieg <increase nearby attacking/defending teammate’s card values>
5. Bonesaw
6. Ubersaw
Sniper
1. Sniper Rifle
2. Huntsman
3. Submachine gun
4. Razorback
5. Jarate
6. Kukri
7. Tribalman’s Shiv
Spy
1. Revolver
2. Ambassador
3. Sapper
4. Knife
5. Cloak and Dagger
6. Dead Ringer
All Class Cards
1. Taunt Kill
2. Higher Ground
3. Found Ammo
4. Dispenser
Would love suggestions on values (dice or no dice, which ever you think?) as well as more all class cards
dammit
08-01-2011, 10:45 AM
After some fun play testing with friends, here are the current rules (http://www.box.net/shared/no28ptb2un) to play by.
Changes that will happen in the future: Change in the deck and improvements of the actual tokens as well as a large card for tracking respawning, intel and advantages.
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