View Full Version : Desktop Dungeons
Thanks, I was going to ask your name so that I could credit you :)
What would be even more awesome, is if it had a way for people sto submit their themes for moderation, and have an in-game "skinning" tab that can automate the process of downloading and installing a different skin for that person, now THAT would be pretty cool :P
Gazza_N
19-10-2010, 08:59 AM
Just finished entering DD into the 2011 IGF. That's a personal milestone for me :)
The IGF? Kickass! Best of luck to you guys!
XuaXua
30-12-2010, 09:01 AM
It should be disqualified due to the bug where if you pick Taurog and then get the 90 piety reduced to 1 Mana bonus, and then later pick one that reduces you by 2 Mana to, say -1 Mana, you don't die instantly like expected.
Instead it just says -1 Mana, like Mana is just worthless, WORTHLESS I TELL YOU.
s'funny, I just blew away Crawl off my drive (frustrated after my incredible Spriggan Enchanter run got cut short by an unexpected critical Titan lightning blast to the face) and now here is DD again.
Dammit.
XuaXua
30-12-2010, 09:01 AM
Also, where is my beta testing invite? :-)
dislekcia
30-12-2010, 07:06 PM
Also, where is my beta testing invite? :-)
Soon as the Unity build is a leeetle more complete :)
Kayvex
04-01-2011, 12:19 AM
Sorry if someone already talked about this, I couldnt be bothered to read all 51 pages to see xP
I keep getting this error,
___________________________________________
ERROR in
action number 1
of Create Event
for object SelectWatch:
Sound does not exist.
And then, it will work, but all my saved data is gone. Also, your character is a weird yellow guy, and the graphics arent as good :| It did this once, so I re-downloaded it, and it worked again, but each time you leave and come back it happens again. Please help?
Oh, and I LOVE the game!
badjujuman
04-01-2011, 02:05 AM
"Failed to load game data. File seems corrupted."
I keep getting this error when I try to start the game. Is there something I'm doing wrong?
dislekcia
04-01-2011, 02:30 AM
Sound does not exist.
And then, it will work, but all my saved data is gone. Also, your character is a weird yellow guy, and the graphics arent as good :| It did this once, so I re-downloaded it, and it worked again, but each time you leave and come back it happens again. Please help?
Oh, and I LOVE the game!
Hmm. That seems like you might be trying to play the game either from a zip file (you have to extract it to a directory so that it can load the sounds and tilesets) or the directory you've extracted the game to is missing some of the sounds and write protected. Re-extract the latest version (http://www.qcfdesgin.com/?cat=20) to a new directory and see if that works... Sorry your progress is getting erased :(
"Failed to load game data. File seems corrupted."
I keep getting this error when I try to start the game. Is there something I'm doing wrong?
Have you tried re-downloading the game? It seems like the zipfile got corrupted somehow and that made the final exe not play nice. Which OS are you playing on?
badjujuman
04-01-2011, 02:48 AM
I've redownloaded, I even downloaded v .14 and still the same crash comes up.
I am running windows 7 x64
dislekcia
04-01-2011, 12:28 PM
I've redownloaded, I even downloaded v .14 and still the same crash comes up.
I am running windows 7 x64
And you've extracted everything out of the zip file? That's the other common error we see...
I don't really know what could be causing that problem, maybe the 64bit? Game Maker outputs 32bit exes, but that shouldn't cause issues. Maybe there's a DirectX versioning issue? My Win7 machine hasn't had any problems :( Now I feel bad because I can't seem to help.
ZoRPA
04-01-2011, 04:08 PM
I don't really know what could be causing that problem, maybe the 64bit? Game Maker outputs 32bit exes, but that shouldn't cause issues. Maybe there's a DirectX versioning issue?
Game runs perfect on Win7 64bit. Make sure DirectX is up to date. I'm running DD v0.15. Turn off UAC, its causes all sorts of sh!t.
terproerg
04-01-2011, 06:29 PM
When i try to load the game, I get "unexpected error had occurred". This is very frustrating. I am running windows 7 home 64bit. Ive tried to run it in windows xp mode and vista. It still gives me the error. Any ideas as to why this is the case? Also I have downloaded the game 3 times to see if that was the issue.
Kayvex
04-01-2011, 09:38 PM
Hmm I tried what you said to do dislekcia, but it still wont work right :( Thanks for trying to help though.
Kayvex
04-01-2011, 10:13 PM
Wait I got it to work now! Thanks dislekcia!! :D
(Sorry for double post D:)
KrazyKrakerdude
04-01-2011, 11:47 PM
I downloaded the game and preceded to play it. Every time I perform a transaction, it gives me an error message here is every thing that is happening.
___________________________________________
ERROR in
action number 1
of Create Event
for object SelectWatch:
Sound does not exist.
___________________________________________
ERROR in
action number 1
of Mouse Event for Left Released
for object SelectButton:
Sound does not exist.
___________________________________________
ERROR in
action number 1
of Mouse Event for Left Released
for object SelectButton:
Sound does not exist.
___________________________________________
ERROR in
action number 1
of Mouse Event for Left Released
for object SelectButton:
Sound does not exist.
___________________________________________
ERROR in
action number 1
of Mouse Event for Left Released
for object SelectButton:
Sound does not exist.
___________________________________________
ERROR in
action number 1
of Mouse Event for Left Released
for object SelectButton:
Sound does not exist.
___________________________________________
ERROR in
action number 1
of Mouse Event for Glob Left Released
for object Roomwatch:
Sound does not exist.
___________________________________________
ERROR in
action number 1
of Mouse Event for Glob Left Released
for object Roomwatch:
Sound does not exist.
___________________________________________
ERROR in
action number 1
of Mouse Event for Left Pressed
for object RetireButton:
Sound does not exist.
___________________________________________
ERROR in
action number 1
of Mouse Event for Left Released
for object SelectButton:
Sound does not exist.
___________________________________________
ERROR in
action number 1
of Mouse Event for Left Released
for object SelectButton:
Sound does not exist.
Dhraz
05-01-2011, 11:26 AM
So I'm getting an odd problem. When I click on any enemy to attack I can't only attack once. If I click an enemy I just attack him until either it or I am dead. I cant, for example, attack with one swing, drink a potion, attack again.
I just click and it does ATTACKATTACKATTACKINFINITY!
0_o
Has anyone else seen this problem?
64bit Win 7, no compatability mode (but I did try a few and nothing fixed it)
core 2 duo processor
I'll list more info if you need it.
dislekcia
05-01-2011, 12:46 PM
When i try to load the game, I get "unexpected error had occurred". This is very frustrating. I am running windows 7 home 64bit. Ive tried to run it in windows xp mode and vista. It still gives me the error. Any ideas as to why this is the case? Also I have downloaded the game 3 times to see if that was the issue.
I think this is a DirectX issue... What graphics card do you have and have you installed any DirectX versions recently? I had to install DirectX 9c (off another game disc) before DD would work on my Win 7 machine.
Wait I got it to work now! Thanks dislekcia!! :D
(Sorry for double post D:)
What did you do? It might be able to help others :)
I downloaded the game and preceded to play it. Every time I perform a transaction, it gives me an error message here is every thing that is happening.
Have you extracted the game from the zipfile? It won't work right if you try to play it from inside the zip: It can't find the sounds or graphics that it's trying to load (or save progress reliably) if it's not all extracted to the same place.
So I'm getting an odd problem. When I click on any enemy to attack I can't only attack once. If I click an enemy I just attack him until either it or I am dead. I cant, for example, attack with one swing, drink a potion, attack again.
I just click and it does ATTACKATTACKATTACKINFINITY!
0_o
Has anyone else seen this problem?
64bit Win 7, no compatability mode (but I did try a few and nothing fixed it)
core 2 duo processor
I'll list more info if you need it.
Whoa, ok. That's an odd one... What happens when you attack using the numpad to move "into" enemies, is it the same thing? If it isn't, it means there's something up with the mouse driver/event processing. To be honest, I'm not really sure what to do about that, GM doesn't let you get under its hood very much :( But if we can figure out what it is, mebbe we can find a workaround.
XuaXua
05-01-2011, 06:56 PM
BUGS
Golden Guardian renounces me (a Human Paladin) for drinking too many potions. I am "no longer a servant".
BUG 1 - Options to join other gods (Taurog and Dracul were available) were not accessible; could not pray at their altars.
BUG 2 - Golden Guardian kept sending me animated balls of piety (not that the counter went up).
Dhraz
05-01-2011, 09:03 PM
Whoa, ok. That's an odd one... What happens when you attack using the numpad to move "into" enemies, is it the same thing? If it isn't, it means there's something up with the mouse driver/event processing. To be honest, I'm not really sure what to do about that, GM doesn't let you get under its hood very much :( But if we can figure out what it is, mebbe we can find a workaround.
I was thinking the same thing but the numpad does infinity attack as well.
The game also often freezes if I move into one of these infinity attacks and the guy kills me.
Sometimes I have gotten it to attack once, but I can't repeat it and I don't really know what I did differently.
Are there any libraries that I need to install or a version of DirectX or something? Maybe even an older one? I'm just grasping for straws here but I don't know... It is really aggravating when I am the only person on the planet who seems to have this bug.
AlHeldez
06-01-2011, 12:53 AM
Hi, I didn't not know if anyone posted this but my bloodwiz seem to not able to drink his mana pot
edit : Nvm i think its becos i woship the chaos god ><
dislekcia
06-01-2011, 01:32 AM
BUGS
Golden Guardian renounces me (a Human Paladin) for drinking too many potions. I am "no longer a servant".
BUG 1 - Options to join other gods (Taurog and Dracul were available) were not accessible; could not pray at their altars.
BUG 2 - Golden Guardian kept sending me animated balls of piety (not that the counter went up).
No changes have been made to the code since last release, plus the full is a complete rewrite from scratch, so I doubt any of these bugs will persist. But I'll take a look into them to see if I can figure out which are bugs and which aren't...
The renouncing due to potion abuse sounds like the GG, did you have any piety?
I was thinking the same thing but the numpad does infinity attack as well.
The game also often freezes if I move into one of these infinity attacks and the guy kills me.
Sometimes I have gotten it to attack once, but I can't repeat it and I don't really know what I did differently.
Are there any libraries that I need to install or a version of DirectX or something? Maybe even an older one? I'm just grasping for straws here but I don't know... It is really aggravating when I am the only person on the planet who seems to have this bug.
That sounds like a GM-based problem to me. Try installing DirectX 9c, I know that has stable fallbacks for the DX8 stuff that GM uses. Unfortunately we can't really get much deeper than that in terms of finding solutions :( We could maybe try a GM8 version, but I don't think that'll help much.
Your best bet would be to either play on another machine and see if you can isolate the differences if that works, or wait for the full version - that's a completely different codebase.
Hi, I didn't not know if anyone posted this but my bloodwiz seem to not able to drink his mana pot
edit : Nvm i think its becos i woship the chaos god ><
Nope, it's because Bloodmages lose health when they drink mana potions, so you can't drink one that would kill you. You used to be able to commit suicide like that, but players didn't like it ;)
ChrisAs
07-01-2011, 12:08 PM
Hi
I downloaded an tried to run the game without a soundcard installed, but I received two errors: "Failed to initialize Direct Music Audio" and after that "Unexpected error occured while running the game". I have searched this thread but could find no way to disable the sound. Is there any?
Thanks!
@ChrisAs: Unfortunately that is a Game Maker inherent problem, Even if the Game Maker game has no sound it will give you that issue (Ive had it on my laptop at one time), it comes from there not being audio drivers (from what I could tell), are your sound drivers installed correctly?
ChrisAs
07-01-2011, 01:09 PM
@edg3: I don't have the drivers installed for the soundcard.
@ChrisAs: if you can get and install them it will solve the problem and allow you to play (at least it should :) )
ChrisAs
07-01-2011, 01:36 PM
The problem is I cannot find the drivers for the soundcard integrated in the MB anymore, but I'll think of someting. Thank you!
Tr00jg
07-01-2011, 08:04 PM
Dudes, congratulations on making the IGF finals! Excellence in design and Seamus McNally! Huge!
Ziren
09-01-2011, 03:19 PM
I've found a bug with The Iron Man: If you're using BURNDAYRAZ on him, the battle preview displays more damage than he's actually going to take.
coendou
09-01-2011, 11:03 PM
Do not know if you know it already, but just saw this.
DD is the number one in the "Feature: Top Freeware Role-Playing Games 2010"
@ indiegames.com/blog
you deserve it :)
ICountFrom0
11-01-2011, 07:15 AM
It's just struck me right in the face just how hard it is to unlock the crusader.
Gnomic Elf in Factory
I found a level 9 armor, and 3 level 8 armors. Both bosses. Mystera Annur AND Pactmaker as I hunted down the fireball. Yes I got IMAWAL. So I cast enough magic to make sure I'd be able to simply give myself faith.
Hit the boss with IMAWAL until I had ALL the boons from Mystera and 100 piety then converted to Pactmaker. Took Learning with the remaining points. Finished killing the level 9, & 8 armors. Setup mid-kill levelups with the level 7 armors, and I had APHEELSIK to let me hold my place against the meatman.
I still had to scrape the bottom of the barrel and convert everything BUT the fireball to get enough mana to finish killing meatman at level 10.
A perfect setup, even to byssept to let me burn mana before mystera so as to be able to controll my starting piety and endiswal to let me get to the glyphs in the first place... and it almost didn't happen.
You have any idea what it would have felt like having to post "and I died" instead of "And it was still hard"?
dislekcia
11-01-2011, 03:33 PM
It's just struck me right in the face just how hard it is to unlock the crusader.
Gnomic Elf in Factory
I found a level 9 armor, and 3 level 8 armors. Both bosses. Mystera Annur AND Pactmaker as I hunted down the fireball. Yes I got IMAWAL. So I cast enough magic to make sure I'd be able to simply give myself faith.
Hit the boss with IMAWAL until I had ALL the boons from Mystera and 100 piety then converted to Pactmaker. Took Learning with the remaining points. Finished killing the level 9, & 8 armors. Setup mid-kill levelups with the level 7 armors, and I had APHEELSIK to let me hold my place against the meatman.
I still had to scrape the bottom of the barrel and convert everything BUT the fireball to get enough mana to finish killing meatman at level 10.
A perfect setup, even to byssept to let me burn mana before mystera so as to be able to controll my starting piety and endiswal to let me get to the glyphs in the first place... and it almost didn't happen.
You have any idea what it would have felt like having to post "and I died" instead of "And it was still hard"?
That sounds like an epic run! Awesome :) Mystera is definitely one of the harder but more rewarding gods to play - when you get it right it makes a huge impact though. I can imagine that trying to take down the SMM with fireball damage alone was a problem, usually you want to have both physical and magical damage to kick him to the curb.
P.S. What's a Gnomic Elf? Assume you meant Gnome Wiz?
XuaXua
11-01-2011, 07:07 PM
BUGS
Golden Guardian renounces me (a Human Paladin) for drinking too many potions. I am "no longer a servant".
BUG 1 - Options to join other gods (Taurog and Dracul were available) were not accessible; could not pray at their altars.
BUG 2 - Golden Guardian kept sending me animated balls of piety (not that the counter went up).
The renouncing due to potion abuse sounds like the GG, did you have any piety?
I had zero piety, which is correct behavior.
GG renounced me for drinking another potion, which is correct behavior.
The bug is, after GG renounced me, I could not "sign up" for another god (Taurog, Dracul, and today Binlor and Mystera) at a different altar.
I assume the following behaviors should be correct:
After renouncement by GG, I am no longer a servant; I should be able to pray to another god, making renouncement (after absolution!) a tactic. Current build: Prayer at another altar is not allowed.
After renouncement by GG, I am no longer a servant; GG altar continues to send animated balls of piety (piety counter correctly remains at 0). Animation shouldn't persist.
riipper
11-01-2011, 07:08 PM
I'm having the same problem as badjujuman. When I start the game I get a popup that says "Failed to load the game data. File seems corrupted." I get the same error with v015 and v014. I've downloaded v015 multiple times and extracted it with izarc. I have directx 11 on windows 7 32bit.
Do you have hashes of the game files I could use to check my download? Is there a debug version that will tell me exactly which file seems corrupt? Are there any alternate download sites I could try?
cerebus295
11-01-2011, 10:29 PM
Apheelsik doesn't work at all for me, I cast it they get poisoned, however I then explore new tiles without attacking them and they still regen with me.
XuaXua
11-01-2011, 11:00 PM
BUG OR FEATURE?
This is what I am seeing:
- Level 2 or Higher Elf Wizard in Crypt worshiping GG
- Kill a Level 1 Undead (any)
- Get message -1 piety for killing the weak, Get no message about killing Undead, Piety is maintained at current level.
XuaXua
11-01-2011, 11:02 PM
Apheelsik doesn't work at all for me, I cast it they get poisoned, however I then explore new tiles without attacking them and they still regen with me.
What do you poison?
Goats and Iron Golems have magic resistance and sometimes you will see the word "RESIST".
Poison never works on undead (Vampires, Wraiths and Zombies) so always sacrifice it in the Crypt.
Poison will always stop working on the currently poisoned creature(s) once you attack any other creature either physically (click) or magically (with fireball).
XuaXua
11-01-2011, 11:50 PM
THOUGHTS
Assassin current ability is if he has explored area around Target A, he gets First Strike against Target A.
Assassin with Sight Orb can see entire area around Target B, but hasn't explored the area around Target B.
Based on the current rules, the Assassin does not get First Strike against Target B.
It is my opinion that the Assassin should get First Strike against Target B.
Feedback?
dislekcia
12-01-2011, 11:05 AM
I had zero piety, which is correct behavior.
GG renounced me for drinking another potion, which is correct behavior.
The bug is, after GG renounced me, I could not "sign up" for another god (Taurog, Dracul, and today Binlor and Mystera) at a different altar.
I assume the following behaviors should be correct:
After renouncement by GG, I am no longer a servant; I should be able to pray to another god, making renouncement (after absolution!) a tactic. Current build: Prayer at another altar is not allowed.
After renouncement by GG, I am no longer a servant; GG altar continues to send animated balls of piety (piety counter correctly remains at 0). Animation shouldn't persist.
The GG's damnation stops you being able to worship anyone else, because you can't gain further piety at all. The implementation in the freeware is a big buggy (lingering graphics that we couldn't seem to figure out) but behaviorally correct.
BUG OR FEATURE?
This is what I am seeing:
- Level 2 or Higher Elf Wizard in Crypt worshiping GG
- Kill a Level 1 Undead (any)
- Get message -1 piety for killing the weak, Get no message about killing Undead, Piety is maintained at current level.
That's totally normal: +1 piety for killing undead, -1 piety for killing a lower level enemy. Only the most recent message is displayed. The full has a bit of a message queue to prevent confusion like this. The order is specifically done that way to prevent excommunication when you would have earned positive piety "as well".
THOUGHTS
Assassin current ability is if he has explored area around Target A, he gets First Strike against Target A.
Assassin with Sight Orb can see entire area around Target B, but hasn't explored the area around Target B.
Based on the current rules, the Assassin does not get First Strike against Target B.
It is my opinion that the Assassin should get First Strike against Target B.
Feedback?
No, Assassins shouldn't get first strike that way - they haven't fully explored the area that the sight orb has revealed. They don't get regen for those spaces, so they shouldn't get the first strike. Can't have the positive benefits without using the resources.
I'm having the same problem as badjujuman. When I start the game I get a popup that says "Failed to load the game data. File seems corrupted." I get the same error with v015 and v014. I've downloaded v015 multiple times and extracted it with izarc. I have directx 11 on windows 7 32bit.
Do you have hashes of the game files I could use to check my download? Is there a debug version that will tell me exactly which file seems corrupt? Are there any alternate download sites I could try?
Ah, I think it's the DX11. As I recall that doesn't have a true fallback path for DX8 (which is what GM uses), so you need to see if you can find a DX9 install. That shouldn't mess up any of your current games, but it should allow GM files to work. Please let me know if that helps...
Apheelsik doesn't work at all for me, I cast it they get poisoned, however I then explore new tiles without attacking them and they still regen with me.
Are you attacking anything else in the meantime? If you are, the poison effect wears off.
jiquera
12-01-2011, 02:59 PM
Ey All, (something went wrong with my last post, apologies if it shows up somewhere after all)
Just want to mention I love the game, although I find it incredibly hard (but from what I read its because of my poor skills :P) luckily the game is trivial to hack (just ask if you want to fix that, I can give some advice) and now I can play all races and classes, jeej!
I have also a quick question about the keyboard controls. Are they documented somewhere? I'm looking for controls to view unit stats and to recycle glyphs.
Also there is a bug. When at the edge of the screen (say bottom) I can't use the keyboard to move diagonal (say up right).
I noticed the game developer making another game, does this mean that this game is no longer being worked on?
thanks in advance
cheers!
XuaXua
12-01-2011, 05:54 PM
No, Assassins shouldn't get first strike that way - they haven't fully explored the area that the sight orb has revealed. They don't get regen for those spaces, so they shouldn't get the first strike. Can't have the positive benefits without using the resources.
I just figured conceptually, an Assassin got First Strike because he can "see" the environment and didn't have to necessarily explore it; sort of a bonus feature for Sight Orb and a good incentive for Assassins to drop $ on the item when it appears.
riipper
12-01-2011, 09:09 PM
Ah, I think it's the DX11. As I recall that doesn't have a true fallback path for DX8 (which is what GM uses), so you need to see if you can find a DX9 install. That shouldn't mess up any of your current games, but it should allow GM files to work. Please let me know if that helps...
I installed directx 9.0c and I still get the same error. Is there anything I can do to get more info about what exactly the error is?
dislekcia
13-01-2011, 02:25 AM
Ey All, (something went wrong with my last post, apologies if it shows up somewhere after all)
Just want to mention I love the game, although I find it incredibly hard (but from what I read its because of my poor skills :P) luckily the game is trivial to hack (just ask if you want to fix that, I can give some advice) and now I can play all races and classes, jeej!
I have also a quick question about the keyboard controls. Are they documented somewhere? I'm looking for controls to view unit stats and to recycle glyphs.
Also there is a bug. When at the edge of the screen (say bottom) I can't use the keyboard to move diagonal (say up right).
I noticed the game developer making another game, does this mean that this game is no longer being worked on?
We're still working on DD like crazy! It's just that we've switched over to a completely new codebase, so it's really hard actively supporting v0.15 - I can hardly remember what half the game code in the GM version does anymore.
Nandrew makes games all the time, FienDASH is a side-project that isn't going to be supplanting DD any time soon... Maybe after the game's out you'll see FienDASH do something really cool ;)
I just figured conceptually, an Assassin got First Strike because he can "see" the environment and didn't have to necessarily explore it; sort of a bonus feature for Sight Orb and a good incentive for Assassins to drop $ on the item when it appears.
Nah. The Sight Orb just gives you an idea of what's around, so players can choose their paths a little wiser. There's actually a lot of incentive for an Assassin to get an Orb when they see one, simply to maximise their reveal efficiency: With an Orb you'll be able to create extra space that's explorable later if you know that you can use more diagonal moves to "reveal" the enemy completely. The desire for a first strike is at odds with the desire not to explore too much. The Orb helps deal with that conflict.
I installed directx 9.0c and I still get the same error. Is there anything I can do to get more info about what exactly the error is?
Damn. I was really hoping that would help... I'm nearly ready to chalk this up to GM being unfathomable - have you tried any of the compatibility mode settings?
riipper
13-01-2011, 04:24 AM
Damn. I was really hoping that would help... I'm nearly ready to chalk this up to GM being unfathomable - have you tried any of the compatibility mode settings?
I found a solution! Its caused by some bug in gamemaker. The fix is to go into your task manager, select "spoolsv.exe", and End Process.
dislekcia
13-01-2011, 02:16 PM
I found a solution! Its caused by some bug in gamemaker. The fix is to go into your task manager, select "spoolsv.exe", and End Process.
You. Are. Awesome!
Other players with Win7 problems: Has this fix worked for you?
jiquera
13-01-2011, 04:33 PM
We're still working on DD like crazy! It's just that we've switched over to a completely new codebase, so it's really hard actively supporting v0.15 - I can hardly remember what half the game code in the GM version does anymore.
Nandrew makes games all the time, FienDASH is a side-project that isn't going to be supplanting DD any time soon... Maybe after the game's out you'll see FienDASH do something really cool ;)
Ah, i'm glad to hear this :D i hate it when i find a project thats really cool but abandoned. Since you guys have an online highscore list I assumed it would be nice to have some protection against hackers, with some easy tricks you can make the simplest attacks useless. Well, anyway if you're intrested let me know
I found a solution! Its caused by some bug in gamemaker. The fix is to go into your task manager, select "spoolsv.exe", and End Process.
Don't forget to turn the service on afterwards or you won't be able to print without your computer jamming :P
cheers
jiq
dislekcia
13-01-2011, 05:07 PM
Ah, i'm glad to hear this :D i hate it when i find a project thats really cool but abandoned. Since you guys have an online highscore list I assumed it would be nice to have some protection against hackers, with some easy tricks you can make the simplest attacks useless. Well, anyway if you're intrested let me know
Yeah, the high score implementation was literally a low-hanging fruit: There was a lib in GM that could do it really easily and Rodain had used before, so he added high scores. It is, unfortunately, not the most secure thing in the world ;) We'll write our own, less haxxor-friendly system for the full when the game needs it.
jiquera
13-01-2011, 06:35 PM
fair enough, goodluck coding, I can't wait for the next version, I don't suppose there is some sort of release date estimate yet?
XuaXua
20-01-2011, 10:12 PM
Using a Glowing Guardian-worshipping Gorgon on the Crypt made me wonder about an inconsistency (the first part which I have brought up before):
1 - If a Gorgon kills by melee, the target turns to stone.
2 - If a Gorgon kills by Fireball, the target turns to stone.
3 - If a GG-worshiper kills a lower-level target by melee, the worshiper is penalized.
4 - If a GG-worshiper kills a lower-level target by Fireball, the worshiper is not penalized.
Somehow, making an exception for Fireball as regards GG but not Gorgons appears inconsistent.
dislekcia
21-01-2011, 01:05 AM
Using a Glowing Guardian-worshipping Gorgon on the Crypt made me wonder about an inconsistency (the first part which I have brought up before):
1 - If a Gorgon kills by melee, the target turns to stone.
2 - If a Gorgon kills by Fireball, the target turns to stone.
3 - If a GG-worshiper kills a lower-level target by melee, the worshiper is penalized.
4 - If a GG-worshiper kills a lower-level target by Fireball, the worshiper is not penalized.
Somehow, making an exception for Fireball as regards GG but not Gorgons appears inconsistent.
In the new system, the Glowing Guardian listens for kill events - so it doesn't matter how someone kills a lower level enemy.
Chippit
21-01-2011, 11:18 AM
In the new system, the Glowing Guardian listens for kill events - so it doesn't matter how someone kills a lower level enemy.
Yay event-driven systems. :3
XuaXua
21-01-2011, 05:22 PM
So what you are saying is that it is no longer inconsistent with the next version; GG will penalize on death by fireball. :-)
XuaXua
21-01-2011, 10:47 PM
SO... when JJ tells me he delights in the destruction of "just about" anything, that means destroying a glyph isn't even worth a +1 piety qualifier, right?
XuaXua
24-01-2011, 10:39 PM
???
Stone of Seekers - lets you see locations of all monsters At Time of Acquisition.
If PISORF is used after Stone of Seekers (or, and haven't tested this, hitting a teleporting devil thing), and the monster disappears into unexplored territory, the monster does not show up as a red creature.
dislekcia
25-01-2011, 01:02 AM
???
Stone of Seekers - lets you see locations of all monsters At Time of Acquisition.
If PISORF is used after Stone of Seekers (or, and haven't tested this, hitting a teleporting devil thing), and the monster disappears into unexplored territory, the monster does not show up as a red creature.
I literally just fixed that in the full version last week :)
Basically an edge-case we hadn't documented, new design made it really easy to deal with.
XuaXua
25-01-2011, 10:54 PM
I literally just fixed that in the full version last week :)
Basically an edge-case we hadn't documented, new design made it really easy to deal with.
Is a similar issue fixed considering
- holder of stone of seekers hits an imp or boss goat, and it teleports into unexplored area
- fighter hits an imp or boss goat of same or lower level, and it teleports into unexplored area
- fighter uses pisorf against monster of same or lower level, and it teleports into unexpored area
dislekcia
26-01-2011, 01:20 PM
Is a similar issue fixed considering
- holder of stone of seekers hits an imp or boss goat, and it teleports into unexplored area
- fighter hits an imp or boss goat of same or lower level, and it teleports into unexplored area
- fighter uses pisorf against monster of same or lower level, and it teleports into unexpored area
The first two are exactly the same events, so they're already sorted :) The last one is a slightly different situation (different chain of execution, spellcasting "wraps" around specific events) but it's now something we're looking out for.
We're going to need to figure out how to get a regularly updated testing version going once more graphics are in... That's going to be interesting.
XuaXua
26-01-2011, 11:31 PM
Gorgon worshiping Earth Mother.
No piety given by killing via natural death gaze? Could couple with piety penalty for using ENDISWAL.
XuaXua
27-01-2011, 06:38 PM
Suggestions
1) Add a potion carry capacity (mana + health combined).
Land on a potion with no capacity left, and the potion is auto-consumed or discarded, depending on ability to consume (consider Blood Mages).
Certain (new?) classes could have higher capacities.
Successes against a new dungeon theme could increase capacity.
2) Successes against a new dungeon theme could increase number of glyphs on board.
3) A god gift could be to give 1 extra glyph slot.
4) Cloud/Sky/Electric themed dungeon; cloud giants, Hawks/Bats/Griffons/Hippogriffs, and Living Vapors/Gasses.
Not sure what the abilities are at this time, but just putting it out there.
An electric attack from a cloud giant could cause damage to all adjacent targets.
5) Shield Glyph - gives a resistance % when used.
dislekcia
27-01-2011, 07:07 PM
Suggestions
1) Add a potion carry capacity (mana + health combined).
Land on a potion with no capacity left, and the potion is auto-consumed or discarded, depending on ability to consume (consider Blood Mages).
Certain (new?) classes could have higher capacities.
Successes against a new dungeon theme could increase capacity.
The new inventory handles potions very differently. Each class has a specific number of inventory slots, each of which is either magical, physical or general purpose. Magical slots can only carry magical items, physical slots can only carry non-magical items. General purpose slots can hold both. A glyph is a magical item, but a sword isn't. Potions are classed as "small" items, so picking one up converts a normal slot into a "pouch" which can then hold up to 5 small items. So there's a strategic consideration to carrying potions now :)
2) Successes against a new dungeon theme could increase number of glyphs on board.
3) A god gift could be to give 1 extra glyph slot.
We sort of do stuff like this already, but not quite as overtly. Some dungeons do have custom glyph loadouts and could carry more or less glyphs depending on what preparations the player is prepared to pay for.
4) Cloud/Sky/Electric themed dungeon; cloud giants, Hawks/Bats/Griffons/Hippogriffs, and Living Vapors/Gasses.
Not sure what the abilities are at this time, but just putting it out there.
An electric attack from a cloud giant could cause damage to all adjacent targets.
Like this idea, will bring it up when we're next brainstorming.
[QUOTE=XuaXua;319485]5) Shield Glyph - gives a resistance % when used.
Have you been reading the blog? Nandrew talked about the changes to Endiswal and how it now gives you a level of Stone Skin per wall you destroy. It's a really cool change.
dislekcia
27-01-2011, 07:07 PM
Suggestions
1) Add a potion carry capacity (mana + health combined).
Land on a potion with no capacity left, and the potion is auto-consumed or discarded, depending on ability to consume (consider Blood Mages).
Certain (new?) classes could have higher capacities.
Successes against a new dungeon theme could increase capacity.
The new inventory handles potions very differently. Each class has a specific number of inventory slots, each of which is either magical, physical or general purpose. Magical slots can only carry magical items, physical slots can only carry non-magical items. General purpose slots can hold both. A glyph is a magical item, but a sword isn't. Potions are classed as "small" items, so picking one up converts a normal slot into a "pouch" which can then hold up to 5 small items. So there's a strategic consideration to carrying potions now :)
2) Successes against a new dungeon theme could increase number of glyphs on board.
3) A god gift could be to give 1 extra glyph slot.
We sort of do stuff like this already, but not quite as overtly. Some dungeons do have custom glyph loadouts and could carry more or less glyphs depending on what preparations the player is prepared to pay for.
4) Cloud/Sky/Electric themed dungeon; cloud giants, Hawks/Bats/Griffons/Hippogriffs, and Living Vapors/Gasses.
Not sure what the abilities are at this time, but just putting it out there.
An electric attack from a cloud giant could cause damage to all adjacent targets.
Like this idea, will bring it up when we're next brainstorming.
5) Shield Glyph - gives a resistance % when used.
Have you been reading the blog? Nandrew talked about the changes to Endiswal and how it now gives you a level of Stone Skin per wall you destroy. It's a really cool change.
XuaXua
27-01-2011, 10:29 PM
Have you been reading the blog? Nandrew talked about the changes to Endiswal and how it now gives you a level of Stone Skin per wall you destroy. It's a really cool change.
I only have access to 50% of the internet during the day; 100% at night.
XuaXua
27-01-2011, 10:57 PM
4) Cloud/Sky/Electric themed dungeon; cloud giants, Hawks/Bats/Griffons/Hippogriffs, and Living Vapors/Gasses.
Not sure what the abilities are at this time, but just putting it out there.
An electric attack from a cloud giant could cause damage to all adjacent targets.
Like this idea, will bring it up when we're next brainstorming.
What, the sky theme or the electric? If the electric, consider a Lightning Bolt glyph with the above properties that damages as a half-strength fireball.
Griff3n
28-01-2011, 08:03 AM
So where does one download load this?
FuzzYspo0N
28-01-2011, 10:17 AM
POST #1 http://www.nag.co.za/forums/showthread.php?13014-Desktop-Dungeons
Roguedeus
31-01-2011, 03:49 PM
I apologize if this is not the place to post this, but a quick check did not reveal an official bug thread for this game and I figured that it seemed a big enough deal to get feedback on ASAP. I would have posted sooner, but the forum was down most of the weekend for me.
Before posting this I also checked the game wiki, as well as quite a few posts on this thread regarding the Rogue class, and it seems pretty clear that Rogues get 'First Strike' on every attack. The benefits of this being, that if the first strike kills the target, then the Rogue remains unharmed on the combat round of the targets death.
However, the video linked here clearly shows that is not always the case.
(Note: This video is link view only, and unsearchable. I don't like indexing bug reports for indie games for obvious reasons.)
Links to the start of actual play... Video has many annotations to explain the issue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LZkyh_88v4&t=2m51s
Repeatedly, I attempt to use the Rogues 'First Strike' perk and fail.
Am I doing something wrong? Or is this a bug?
Thanks.
RogueDeus.
Chippit
31-01-2011, 04:17 PM
I apologize if this is not the place to post this, but a quick check did not reveal an official bug thread for this game and I figured that it seemed a big enough deal to get feedback on ASAP. I would have posted sooner, but the forum was down most of the weekend for me.
Before posting this I also checked the game wiki, as well as quite a few posts on this thread regarding the Rogue class, and it seems pretty clear that Rogues get 'First Strike' on every attack. The benefits of this being, that if the first strike kills the target, then the Rogue remains unharmed on the combat round of the targets death.
However, the video linked here clearly shows that is not always the case.
(Note: This video is link view only, and unsearchable. I don't like indexing bug reports for indie games for obvious reasons.)
Links to the start of actual play... Video has many annotations to explain the issue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LZkyh_88v4&t=2m51s
Repeatedly, I attempt to use the Rogues 'First Strike' perk and fail.
Am I doing something wrong? Or is this a bug?
Thanks.
RogueDeus.
As far as I can tell, this is not a bug. Before fighting the snake, you worshipped Jehora Jeheyu. He has an immediate effect of removing some of your positive buffs, including first strike. By worshipping him, you lose that passive class ability.
Roguedeus
31-01-2011, 04:36 PM
As far as I can tell, this is not a bug. Before fighting the snake, you worshipped Jehora Jeheyu. He has an immediate effect of removing some of your positive buffs, including first strike. By worshipping him, you lose that passive class ability.
I suppose if that where the case, it would help if that sort of thing where explained before worshiping a deity. However, how do you explain the second snake (around 10:08) and the goat (around 10:20) I killed afterwords, where my FS was working fine... Only I didn't enable BYSSEPS?
Seems to me, BYSSEPS is causing some kind of reorder of melee perks. Thing is, I have used BYSSEPS with the first strike glyph many times, and they stacked fine. This seems to only effect the Rogues innate FS.
dislekcia
31-01-2011, 05:46 PM
I suppose if that where the case, it would help if that sort of thing where explained before worshiping a deity. However, how do you explain the second snake (around 10:08) and the goat (around 10:20) I killed afterwords, where my FS was working fine... Only I didn't enable BYSSEPS?
Seems to me, BYSSEPS is causing some kind of reorder of melee perks. Thing is, I have used BYSSEPS with the first strike glyph many times, and they stacked fine. This seems to only effect the Rogues innate FS.
Agreed, the diety on-worship effects aren't explained near well enough in the alpha. Sorry about that. Jehora removes various things like first strike and various immunities. For reference, effects that you start with are shown in the current effects list, so you could see that your first strike wasn't there anymore (I know, I know, it's not immediately obvious, I'm making a note to have animations for effects like that popping off in the full if we can swing it) after you started worshiping Jehora.
The second snake and the goat were lower-level than you, which means that combat resolves the other way round: You hit first against lower levels to you (unless they have first strike) and higher or equal level monsters hit first. That's why you nuked those two without taking any damage.
Sorry for the confusion, you sounded kinda peeved ;)
P.S. Rogue's my fav class, I'd have bought the pendant of health as soon as I saw it, makes such a huge difference in any Rogue run.
Roguedeus
31-01-2011, 06:04 PM
Thanks. I appreciate it. Now if only I could get back the time I spent finding this out. :p
XuaXua
31-01-2011, 06:04 PM
I suppose if that where the case, it would help if that sort of thing where explained before worshiping a
It is. Before you worship, just scroll over the worship button instead of instantly clicking. The text always changes for JerJer to
"Joining this religion will remove poison immunity, mana burn immunity, death gaze immunity, death protection, dodge and first strike."
It's pretty straightforward there. Only time lost is time not spent paying attention.
Granted, I've made the mistake many times knee-jerk worshiping JerJer with a Vampire or a Rogue and retiring almost immediately because I wasn't thinking.
The best tactic with JerJer is to check which shops are available first and see if Dancing Sword (auto-first strike) and the First Strike glyph are available, THEN join JerJer, sacrifice the glyph for bonus and buy Dancing Sword (work-around). Same goes for the shop that grants Mana Burn immunity in a crypt board.
Another thing to look out for is a god which SETS your damage reduction percentage rather than ADDS TO your damage reduction percentage. Never buy an ADDS TO percentage from a shop until you are certain you aren't going to worship a god who SETS your damage percentage (like Binlor), invalidating your purchase.
XuaXua
31-01-2011, 09:45 PM
There are two essential resources for my vampire on my high level gauntlet runs: 1) low level monsters without first strike that I can kill in one hit (this both gets me more health to cast fireball with as well as resets the amount of health used by casting fireball back to six); 2) bloodpools that are also adjacent to unexplored dungeon tiles (stepping on these essentially has the same effect as #1, most importantly resetting the casting cost of fireball to six).
Now that I'm running gauntlets (and chose the Vampire to do so, which pretty much breaks Gauntlets), I searched this thread on "gauntlet".
Stepping on a bloodpool resets the magic drain? To me, that's odd. It works, but it seems more like a side-effect as your next action is likely, again, magic use.
XuaXua
01-02-2011, 07:26 PM
Playing Lothlorien (as usual since I can never seem to beat the last level, and I've given up on Gauntlet because it is too easy with Vampire), and realized something.
I think there should be a point bonus for the % of Gold left, as I beat the first board with a full 160GP pocket.
Granted, I started with 160GP and only bought +10 health and +5 damage.
SlugAdvisor
02-02-2011, 01:51 PM
Just registered to tell you I love the game and can't wait to see the commercial version.
Since you're presumably still brainstorming, I had a few ideas I thought I'd share. For the special race classes, how about a phoenix that could get a kill protection per level similar to the animated armors, but be unable to use BURNDAYRAZ and/or other glyphs? The most obvious choice for glyph conversions would be extra kill protections. It would certainly be different, since you'd have to plan out a way to get to a decent boss fighting level without glyphs but still keeping enough of your extra lives to beat the dungeon. As for the 'standart' unlockable races, a lizardperson or kobold with glyph conversions into dodge chance could probably work. And another that would fit into the special races would be a shapechanger or doppelganger, though that's probably quite an obvious idea. He could change into the monster type that he killed every time, or only when activating a unique glyph (deactivating would turn him back and converting it would probably either be impossible ro turn him into a random race/class combination). Glyph conversions into a piety could also be an interesting idea to play with.
Roguedeus
05-02-2011, 12:02 PM
I removed the false bug video. Sorry I forgot to earlier.
vexis58
14-02-2011, 01:13 AM
I'm not sure if someone mentioned this already in the 54 pages of this thread, but I attempted to start the game up again today after playing it for several hours yesterday and unlocking some more classes. It asked me for a profile name, so assuming it was a username-like situation, I typed in the name of the profile I was using yesterday. It gave me an error relating to sound, and though I closed that error, it continues to give me sound-related errors every time I click the profile button or close/reopen the game.
___________________________________________
ERROR in
action number 1
of Create Event
for object SelectWatch:
Sound does not exist.
___________________________________________
ERROR in
action number 1
of Mouse Event for Left Released
for object SelectButton:
Sound does not exist.
Sadly, this appears to have saved over the profile I was using yesterday with a new blank one, so I lost all of my progress =(
I don't mind playing more and unlocking the stuff again, but is there any chance you can add in some kind of warning for that? A popup to say "there is already a profile with that name, would you like to save over it?"
dislekcia
15-02-2011, 12:19 AM
I'm not sure if someone mentioned this already in the 54 pages of this thread, but I attempted to start the game up again today after playing it for several hours yesterday and unlocking some more classes. It asked me for a profile name, so assuming it was a username-like situation, I typed in the name of the profile I was using yesterday. It gave me an error relating to sound, and though I closed that error, it continues to give me sound-related errors every time I click the profile button or close/reopen the game.
___________________________________________
ERROR in
action number 1
of Create Event
for object SelectWatch:
Sound does not exist.
___________________________________________
ERROR in
action number 1
of Mouse Event for Left Released
for object SelectButton:
Sound does not exist.
Sadly, this appears to have saved over the profile I was using yesterday with a new blank one, so I lost all of my progress =(
I don't mind playing more and unlocking the stuff again, but is there any chance you can add in some kind of warning for that? A popup to say "there is already a profile with that name, would you like to save over it?"
Seems like you're playing without extracting the game from the zip file (the game saves previous settings, a lack of that tends to mean the zip problem). It's a common error - we should have used an installer. Unfortunately that means that your previous save game is lost in the depths of your temp directory, rest assured that it would have simply loaded the old profile if that still existed :)
Make sure you extract the game before you play again.
Maize
21-02-2011, 01:09 AM
I can't seem to get the F2-to-double-size option to work on my (2006) MacBook Pro. I'm wondering, first, if it's just my machine or if other Mac users are experiencing this, and second, if there's any other way to double the size. The F4 command does go fullscreen, which also enlarges the graphics somewhat, but part of the black border when I do that strobes constantly in a way that's unbearable. The F2 command, however, seems to do absolutely nothing at all for me. The video card is a Radeon X1600, if that's a factor. The game would be a lot more fun if the sprites weren't so hard to see in my old age. :)
Maize
21-02-2011, 01:22 AM
I can't seem to get the F2-to-double-size option to work on my (2006) MacBook Pro. I'm wondering, first, if it's just my machine or if other Mac users are experiencing this, and second, if there's any other way to double the size. The F4 command does go fullscreen, which also enlarges the graphics somewhat, but part of the black border when I do that strobes constantly in a way that's unbearable. The F2 command, however, seems to do absolutely nothing at all for me. The video card is a Radeon X1600, if that's a factor. The game would be a lot more fun if the sprites weren't so hard to see in my old age. :)
Actually, I just noticed that F2 doesn't do nothing -- it puts a .bmp format screenshot of the game into the game's application folder. (Also, F1 opens the help.) Those (and F4 as noted above) seem to be the only functioning F-keys.
dislekcia
21-02-2011, 02:11 AM
I can't seem to get the F2-to-double-size option to work on my (2006) MacBook Pro. I'm wondering, first, if it's just my machine or if other Mac users are experiencing this, and second, if there's any other way to double the size. The F4 command does go fullscreen, which also enlarges the graphics somewhat, but part of the black border when I do that strobes constantly in a way that's unbearable. The F2 command, however, seems to do absolutely nothing at all for me. The video card is a Radeon X1600, if that's a factor. The game would be a lot more fun if the sprites weren't so hard to see in my old age. :)
Yeah, sorry about that. I had to kill the F2 shortcut because it just didn't work - it would do the same thing that F4 does and there's literally nothing I can do about what happens when it fullscreens. I only left F4 in as a "just in case it happens to function on other people's machines" thing. In general the Mac version of 0.051 isn't a wonderful port, GM doesn't handle itself well on Mac yet.
The best way to get a little more zoom out of the game is to use the CTRL+Mousewheel Mac zoom in shortcut that enlarges what's in the centre of the screen. Then you can scroll the zoomed window over DD and play that way... I know it's not really optimal, but it does at least make it easier to see things! (I can't play without F2 myself)
I had no idea F2 on the mac took a screenshot... That is totally weird. Another GM idiosyncrasy.
Cadex
21-02-2011, 06:23 AM
Question from a new player...
Mana burn attacks from monsters (wraiths, for example) seem to immediately reduce my mana to 0 in addition to inflicting the mana burn status. The wiki doesn't mention anything about the loss of mana. Is this supposed to happen?
Question from a new player...
Mana burn attacks from monsters (wraiths, for example) seem to immediately reduce my mana to 0 in addition to inflicting the mana burn status. The wiki doesn't mention anything about the loss of mana. Is this supposed to happen?
Typically in games "mana burn" refers to "burning"/destroying your opponents mana, although it should probably be noted somewhere explicitly for new players :)
EDIT: double post, my post totally wasnt showing for me after 2 mins of refreshing so I reposted it... Then suddenly there were 2...
Relonos
21-02-2011, 08:53 AM
Upon trying to start the game which i just downloaded a few days ago, i get the message: "DesktopDungeons.exe has stopped working." It hasn't actually started the game yet, and I WANT to PLAY so BAD. I run a Windows Vista Home Basic 32 bit OS, please help me guys, I've tried extracting the files with WinRAR, stopping DEP, UAC, everything i could think of, yet still it haunts me, not being able to play this game!
dislekcia
21-02-2011, 03:31 PM
Question from a new player...
Mana burn attacks from monsters (wraiths, for example) seem to immediately reduce my mana to 0 in addition to inflicting the mana burn status. The wiki doesn't mention anything about the loss of mana. Is this supposed to happen?
Totally :) Mana burn is evil.
dislekcia
21-02-2011, 03:32 PM
Upon trying to start the game which i just downloaded a few days ago, i get the message: "DesktopDungeons.exe has stopped working." It hasn't actually started the game yet, and I WANT to PLAY so BAD. I run a Windows Vista Home Basic 32 bit OS, please help me guys, I've tried extracting the files with WinRAR, stopping DEP, UAC, everything i could think of, yet still it haunts me, not being able to play this game!
Have you got a compatible version of directx? You can find out by opening the run window and typing "dxdiag". If nothing happens, search for DirectX 9.c and install it.
Relonos
21-02-2011, 11:43 PM
Have you got a compatible version of directx? You can find out by opening the run window and typing "dxdiag". If nothing happens, search for DirectX 9.c and install it.
If i have Directx 11 on my system, but i download the DirectX Redistributable thing, with all the updates from Directx 9, wouldnt that work? Because i cant uninstall 11, but it wont let me play because i believe it looks at 11 instead of something else(which would be the redist., but i havent downloaded it yet, going to do that now!).
Relonos
22-02-2011, 02:17 AM
Also, sorry for the double post, but I have a bit more info on the problem at hand. When I go into properties, and i was just messing around, i clicked "Run in 256 Colors", to see if anything would change. Instead of the usual "DesktopDungeons.exe has stopped working" message, i get the "Get information about the problem" window. I clicked get more info, and it gave me this message: "Files that describe the problem: C:\Windows\Temp\WERE7C6.tmp.version.txt
C:\Windows\Temp\WERF52F.tmp.appcompat.txt
C:\Windows\Temp\WERF697.tmp.mdmp" What would happen if i were to somehow change/delete these files? Would anything change? I have downloaded Directx Redistribution, which is Directx 9 updates and such. Hopefully this gets the problem to the point where it can be fixed.
dislekcia
22-02-2011, 11:58 AM
Also, sorry for the double post, but I have a bit more info on the problem at hand. When I go into properties, and i was just messing around, i clicked "Run in 256 Colors", to see if anything would change. Instead of the usual "DesktopDungeons.exe has stopped working" message, i get the "Get information about the problem" window. I clicked get more info, and it gave me this message: "Files that describe the problem: C:\Windows\Temp\WERE7C6.tmp.version.txt
C:\Windows\Temp\WERF52F.tmp.appcompat.txt
C:\Windows\Temp\WERF697.tmp.mdmp" What would happen if i were to somehow change/delete these files? Would anything change? I have downloaded Directx Redistribution, which is Directx 9 updates and such. Hopefully this gets the problem to the point where it can be fixed.
Those files seem more like information dumps than anything else. I wouldn't worry about them.
I think the problem is that DX11 doesn't have some of the DX8 paths that Game Maker uses, so the game doesn't run properly. Let me know if it works after you've installed the DX9 redist, really hope it does :)
Relonos
23-02-2011, 04:18 AM
Those files seem more like information dumps than anything else. I wouldn't worry about them.
I think the problem is that DX11 doesn't have some of the DX8 paths that Game Maker uses, so the game doesn't run properly. Let me know if it works after you've installed the DX9 redist, really hope it does :)
I've already tried running it several thousand more times after the install, no luck! :(
Schandlich
23-02-2011, 07:54 PM
I have no problems running it on my Win7 64 home machine, but it will not work on my Win7 32 netbook. :/ Same errors as everyone else. Stopped the spooling service. Downloaded and installed the Directx9c redistributable. Nothing. Such a bummer. I hope the new version comes out soon!
Relonos
23-02-2011, 10:30 PM
I have no problems running it on my Win7 64 home machine, but it will not work on my Win7 32 netbook. :/ Same errors as everyone else. Stopped the spooling service. Downloaded and installed the Directx9c redistributable. Nothing. Such a bummer. I hope the new version comes out soon!
Wait wait wait wait wait, so the new version would mean that i could play? YEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSS! :) Thanks so much for this info. Made my week.
Schandlich
23-02-2011, 10:40 PM
Wait wait wait wait wait, so the new version would mean that i could play? YEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSS! :) Thanks so much for this info. Made my week.
Oh that was just a guess. Just wild speculation on my part. Sorry.
Out of curiosity, what version of win are you running relonos? And what graphics card? I am just curious if we have some of the same services running that could be disabled like the spooling service.
Relonos
24-02-2011, 02:56 AM
Oh that was just a guess. Just wild speculation on my part. Sorry.
Out of curiosity, what version of win are you running relonos? And what graphics card? I am just curious if we have some of the same services running that could be disabled like the spooling service.
I'm running Windows Vista Home Basic 32 bit, and my graphics card is.. Mobile Intel(R) 965 Express Chipset Family, I have tried disabling spooling, but it says i dont have the right to, so yeah... I tried turning off DEP, UAC, among tons of other things, but yet nothing will work, really starting to make me sad, and i want to play so bad! :(
Twilizer
25-02-2011, 03:49 AM
Hello, I was referred to this game by my cousin (Awesome gaming buddies btw)
I'm loving this game honestly!
I only have one problem...
Every time I click on something I get this annoying little "Error" pop-up stating that...
ERROR in
action number 1
of Mouse Event for Glob Left Released
for object Roomwatch:
Sound does not exist.
Mind helping me out? I didn't really read through the rest of the forum so I'm sorry if this question is a repeat.
dislekcia
25-02-2011, 10:44 PM
Ok. Landed in SF, we've had some sleep now, let's see if we can be useful:
I have no problems running it on my Win7 64 home machine, but it will not work on my Win7 32 netbook. :/ Same errors as everyone else. Stopped the spooling service. Downloaded and installed the Directx9c redistributable. Nothing. Such a bummer. I hope the new version comes out soon!
Damn. I really have no idea what to do to get the GM version working now... I'm totally off to a great start. Tempted to blame the jet-lag.
I'm running Windows Vista Home Basic 32 bit, and my graphics card is.. Mobile Intel(R) 965 Express Chipset Family, I have tried disabling spooling, but it says i dont have the right to, so yeah... I tried turning off DEP, UAC, among tons of other things, but yet nothing will work, really starting to make me sad, and i want to play so bad! :(
More argh. Just wanted to say that the new version should be a lot more compatible across multiple machines. We will be at the mercy on Unity's compatibility settings though, just like we're kinda over a barrel with the GM version :(
Hello, I was referred to this game by my cousin (Awesome gaming buddies btw)
I'm loving this game honestly!
I only have one problem...
Every time I click on something I get this annoying little "Error" pop-up stating that...
ERROR in
action number 1
of Mouse Event for Glob Left Released
for object Roomwatch:
Sound does not exist.
Mind helping me out? I didn't really read through the rest of the forum so I'm sorry if this question is a repeat.
Sounds like the classic "Are you running the game from inside the zip file?" problem. Make sure you've got the game extracted properly and it'll be able to find those sounds.
lilbear
26-02-2011, 03:14 AM
Tale of Woe
I have a human priest in the SnakePit (first trip through the pit with a priest). Medusa is long gone and Jormungandr is getting antsy. My priest is LVL-9 and by using patience and BLUDTUPOWA, we just took down that frickin LVL-9 snake without getting poisoned. There's now *just* enough cannon-fodder left to vault me to LVL-10.
I evaluate the remaining landscape.
Yessiree, there's just enough black for the LEMMISI that I've left laying since practically the beginning. Combine it w/ B2P to refill my mana, eat B2P, and then use the remaining revelations to heal me, heal me, heal me.
I do the math for battle with the "Coiled One": two fireballs and one smack at lvl-9, plus two fireballs at lvl-10 after the level-up means I'd need ... Damn! Two lvl-10 hits would *just* leave him lifeless (three damage points to spare, in fact). It's too perfect, it's gotta be destiny!
But, alas, even after the level-up, I'll be 10hp short of being able to cut him twice. I have all of my potions left, so it's not like the big-J ain't going down, but I'm soooooo close to the smug satisfaction of knowing I beat this monstrous crawl-space without having to imbibe. Damn!
Then heaven parts its veil, the muse sings, and inspiration springs forth: I have plenty of left-over piety with Jehora Jeheyu, I could easily get the Bolstering boon for the extra 15hp. It'll also cost a health potion--which would normally be a pronounced NONO! with a priest--but it WOULD allow me to brag to myself that I didn't drink a single brew.
Hehoo! I'm a tactical genius. Yes, I am!
Whew, my brilliance scares me sometimes. Now what was the first step of the plan? Oh, yeah, whittle down the remaining low-level baddies.
Lvl-2 snake ... toast.
Lvl-3 naga ... bye-bye now.
Lvl-1 gorgon ...
WAIT! WHAT ... THE ... HELL!
I'm dead?! DEAD!
.
.
.
.
The moral of this little tale, you ask?
Well, actually, there's three of them.
* Arrogance is no match against Death Gaze and First Strike when it doesn't have more than half of it's health.
* Stupid is, stupid does.
* Even idiots with red palm-prints on their foreheads can love this game.
Twilizer
26-02-2011, 05:49 AM
I was playing it straight from the .zip (Extracted it straight to Desktop from WinRAR)
But now I have been opening it and without even going to a screen it seems to pop-up a screen saying "Desktop Dungeon cannot work, files seem to be corrupt." I tried re-installing it but it seems to still not work. Any tips?
lilbear
26-02-2011, 07:29 AM
I was playing it straight from the .zip (Extracted it straight to Desktop from WinRAR)
But now I have been opening it and without even going to a screen it seems to pop-up a screen saying "Desktop Dungeon cannot work, files seem to be corrupt." I tried re-installing it but it seems to still not work. Any tips?
That error message is from WinRar, which means you're still trying to run the game from within the zip package. That won't work.
There's really nothing to install. You just need to *fully* extract the contents of the ZIP package into a new directory/folder. Depending upon how you have WinRar configured, or what options you choose when extracting, it may only be creating a "virtual" directory of the ZIP contents. If that's what's happening, and you don't know the difference, you may need to educate yourself about handling ZIP files; or find a local, friendly geek to do it for you. ;)
----
Edit
----
I might be mistaken about the ZIP. Here's a post from a few pages back, from someone probably smarter than me.
I found a solution! Its caused by some bug in gamemaker. The fix is to go into your task manager, select "spoolsv.exe", and End Process.
[ Note: You made need to have Admin rights and/or turn off UAC in order to stop or end services. And, as someone else said, you may want to restart that particular service before trying to print from that computer.]
Relonos
27-02-2011, 09:08 AM
I FIGURED OUT WHAT WAS WRONG! AND IT HAS BEEN SOLVED!!!! Love this game so much it's not even funny. So basically, if anyone has the problem that I had, where when upon trying to start up, the window pops up saying "DesktopDungeons.exe has stopped working", and you have DirectX 11, try disabling "spooling.exe" or something of the sort. This action is where it stores memory for future printing. Disabling this allowed me to play the game, and just enable it before you want to print! :D Hope this helps everyone!
dislekcia
28-02-2011, 11:31 AM
I FIGURED OUT WHAT WAS WRONG! AND IT HAS BEEN SOLVED!!!! Love this game so much it's not even funny. So basically, if anyone has the problem that I had, where when upon trying to start up, the window pops up saying "DesktopDungeons.exe has stopped working", and you have DirectX 11, try disabling "spooling.exe" or something of the sort. This action is where it stores memory for future printing. Disabling this allowed me to play the game, and just enable it before you want to print! :D Hope this helps everyone!
Wow. What is GM's problem with print spooling?
Really glad you found a way to get the game working :)
Busmumrik
01-03-2011, 12:39 AM
Hello!
I recently started to play Desktop Dungeons and I really like it so far! :)
But I have a little question.
These boosts that you can find, weapon damage, mana and health. Do I benefit more if I'm waiting to take them or should I just grab them the moment I see them? I ask because when I was lvl 1 and took a damage boost, my damage didn't increase. But when I was higher lvl it increased with many points. So do I still get these extra points even if I take it at lvl 1? Or does it not scale and these extra points are lost forever if I'm taking them at a low lvl?
Thanks in advance!
r0gershrubber
01-03-2011, 05:20 AM
DD is great. I just managed to unlock everything, so I finally feel qualified to give feedback and suggestions.
1) It would be great if you could see the numerical damage you will do to an enemy when you hover. It currently represents this graphically, but it would be good to see it numerically (in white text, perhaps) over the health bar.
2) I would like a "regenerate level" button alongside the retire button. Players are going to do it anyway, and this saves them some time.
3) It seems to me that the racial benefits of the Human and Orc are reversed from the fantasy standard: Orcs are strong and Humans learn quickly. Also, the Goblin racial benefit needs to be reworked and the Halfling and Gnome abilities aren't all that interesting. In fact, I think that the idea of only deriving glyph conversion from race makes the races a bit more boring than they need to be.
4) The carry-over gold is a bad idea. I like the idea of letting the player start with more gold as they complete more challenges with more classes.
5) How about a campaign mode which allows players to keep playing with the same character after finishing a map. After each level the player returns to level 1 and loses glyphs but keeps items. With each level the monsters become stronger. The player should be able to save between levels to keep in line with the 10 minute play session window.
Keep up the good work!
lilbear
01-03-2011, 06:04 PM
Hello!
These boosts that you can find, weapon damage, mana and health. Do I benefit more if I'm waiting to take them or should I just grab them the moment I see them? I ask because when I was lvl 1 and took a damage boost, my damage didn't increase. But when I was higher lvl it increased with many points.
Grab them immediately. There is absolutely NO advantage to taking them later as their effects stay with you throughout the dungeon. In fact, there is a distinct disadvantage to not grabbing them.
* Attack Boosts: these are % boosts (10% each, to be exact), but attack damage is rounded down; so at lvl-1, assuming your base attack is still less than 10, you won't see the benefit immediately. In kind, however, if you found two attack boosters while still lvl-1, you would see your attack go up by a point.
* Mana Boosts: simply add a point to your mana.
* Health Boosts: adds a HP per character level. And, just to reaffirm, the bonus stays as your character levels -- it's not a one-time effect.
HTH ! :D
babaz75
01-03-2011, 07:53 PM
hi, firts things first: BRAVO!! GREAT! AWESOME!
i've really fallen in love for this precious gem, sooo addictive i think it shoudl get the Food & Drug Administration approval, aint it? :)
anyway, straight to the point
.
donwloaded the latest windows version, 0.15 from the official site
using it on my windows xp sp3 32bit - which is a very clean and "simple" rig (no strange background-running process, at all)
i FULLY unzipped the archive to a TRUE directory, so no "play from the .zip problem here"
.
ISSUE #1:
inside the .zip archive one can find the "sound files" for the game, a bunch of .wav files that can be easily played back from any music player. The files name "fight.wav" and "general.wav" seem broken (infact i cannot hear any sound when i engage in a fight, but i can listen to the tunes when i die o when i cast a spell and so on...) - tried to re-download the archive, but same result (archive is NOT corrupted, else the unzip tool would tell me...)
.
ISSUE #2:
this is very weird and definitely game-breaking. Whenever i click with the left mouse button on any enemy, my hero engages in a fight "to the last blood". I mean, every single fight ends either with the monster slayed, or my very death. AFAIK this should not be: as per FAQ a "fight round" should consist of (max) 2 strikes, mine and enemy's one. After that, if we are still both alive, i can have a break, drink a potion, cast a spell, go away o just fight him again.
At the very beginning i i thought everything was ok, but ultimately reading the FAQ about "injured monsters" that "recover faster than you" i figured out that something did was inconsistent: how could even be "injured and recovering monsters" around when i have to kill them the very single time i attack'em ?!?
-- sorry for my poor english, i'm italian -- hope i got myself explained
please let me know what's going on here
.
kudos
Busmumrik
01-03-2011, 08:15 PM
Thanks for the answer lilbear! I will grab them immediately then :)
@babaz75: Does the problem with attacking with left mouse button still happen if you attack with arrow keys? (by walking in to the enemies)
babaz75
01-03-2011, 09:23 PM
@babaz75: Does the problem with attacking with left mouse button still happen if you attack with arrow keys? (by walking in to the enemies)
yes, the same thing occurs crawling by arrow keys
a new strange thing just occurred: when i die, game freezes (mouse et all) just before displaying "you DIE..." dialog onscreen
never did this before
.
strange, maybe it's really conflicting with some piece of software in my setup...
lilbear
01-03-2011, 10:04 PM
yes, the same thing occurs crawling by arrow keys
a new strange thing just occurred: when i die, game freezes (mouse et all) just before displaying "you DIE..." dialog onscreen
never did this before
.
strange, maybe it's really conflicting with some piece of software in my setup...
Someone a ways back in the thread reported similar problems (the uncontrolled "fight until death" issue at least), but I don't remember if -- let alone how -- they found a fix.
The developers used the Gamemanger programming engine for the game, and it appears to sometimes have issues with Direct-X, v.11 and/or some Nvidia drivers (among other things). To be honest though, those are just a shot-in-the-dark on my part. I'm mostly just tossing them out here because your problems are most likely caused by that engine, which at least gives you a reference point should you go the google route in search of clues.
babaz75
01-03-2011, 10:09 PM
yes, the same thing occurs crawling by arrow keys
a new strange thing just occurred: when i die, game freezes (mouse et all) just before displaying "you DIE..." dialog onscreen
never did this before
.
strange, maybe it's really conflicting with some piece of software in my setup...
well, this is just strange
tried to download a fresh copy on my basic eeepc (which sports winxp sp3 no frills): to my dismay, sounds work fully and fighting is the way it has to be
.
now, where's the issue? intriguing
lilbear
01-03-2011, 11:53 PM
well, this is just strange
tried to download a fresh copy on my basic eeepc (which sports winxp sp3 no frills): to my dismay, sounds work fully and fighting is the way it has to be
.
now, where's the issue? intriguing
Different graphic drivers? Something running in the background like anti-virus software?
[shrug] Damned if I know. If you figure it out, though, let us know ... you got me intrigued too. ;)
babaz75
02-03-2011, 12:05 AM
Different graphic drivers? Something running in the background like anti-virus software?
[shrug] Damned if I know. If you figure it out, though, let us know ... you got me intrigued too. ;)
different graphics absolutely (but what gives with the audio file corruption?)
but systems are both barenaked, i'm pretty anal about bkgr apps and services too. i'm a speed guy
babaz75
02-03-2011, 02:06 AM
different graphics absolutely (but what gives with the audio file corruption?)
but systems are both barenaked, i'm pretty anal about bkgr apps and services too. i'm a speed guy
well, i FIXED it :)
i narrowed down both issues to an underlying audio problem (as you can see, fight.wav issue AND unstoppable fighting HAD to be related, no?)
my system was missing a legacy (and standard) microsoft audio filter, specifically imaadp32.acm that gets used to playback ADPCM wave files.
now, among the 8 (eight!) .wav files included in the .zip archive, the "fight.wav" was the only one encoded with ADPCM standard, the others being plain vanilla PCM streams... game was not able to succesfully trigger the "fight.wav" playback, not producing any sound but also "locking into a loop" the fighting routine. WEIRD!
if i can suggest a thing, though, is to streamline the audio codec usage avoiding the mix-mash of formats at all! it should not really be necessary, when you have just 8 sound files in your game :D
hope this can help other players, too
cya
dislekcia
02-03-2011, 06:30 AM
well, i FIXED it :)
i narrowed down both issues to an underlying audio problem (as you can see, fight.wav issue AND unstoppable fighting HAD to be related, no?)
my system was missing a legacy (and standard) microsoft audio filter, specifically imaadp32.acm that gets used to playback ADPCM wave files.
now, among the 8 (eight!) .wav files included in the .zip archive, the "fight.wav" was the only one encoded with ADPCM standard, the others being plain vanilla PCM streams... game was not able to succesfully trigger the "fight.wav" playback, not producing any sound but also "locking into a loop" the fighting routine. WEIRD!
if i can suggest a thing, though, is to streamline the audio codec usage avoiding the mix-mash of formats at all! it should not really be necessary, when you have just 8 sound files in your game :D
hope this can help other players, too
cya
You sir, are a goddamn HERO!
I've been randomly poking at that particular problem every time it crops up. If I can get some time next weekend after the GDC, I'll see if I can re-encode that wav file. Very well caught!
Chippit
02-03-2011, 11:48 AM
well, i FIXED it :)
i narrowed down both issues to an underlying audio problem (as you can see, fight.wav issue AND unstoppable fighting HAD to be related, no?)
my system was missing a legacy (and standard) microsoft audio filter, specifically imaadp32.acm that gets used to playback ADPCM wave files.
now, among the 8 (eight!) .wav files included in the .zip archive, the "fight.wav" was the only one encoded with ADPCM standard, the others being plain vanilla PCM streams... game was not able to succesfully trigger the "fight.wav" playback, not producing any sound but also "locking into a loop" the fighting routine. WEIRD!
if i can suggest a thing, though, is to streamline the audio codec usage avoiding the mix-mash of formats at all! it should not really be necessary, when you have just 8 sound files in your game :D
hope this can help other players, too
cya
Well spotted! They make the 'special thanks to' section in game credits for people like you.
@dislekcia: If you need a hand with wrangling the audio formats, I'm a self-confessed pedant about these things.
babaz75
02-03-2011, 06:56 PM
You sir, are a goddamn HERO!
I've been randomly poking at that particular problem every time it crops up. If I can get some time next weekend after the GDC, I'll see if I can re-encode that wav file. Very well caught!
doing my best to support indie gems.
keep up the good work, sir!
lilbear
03-03-2011, 05:46 AM
well, i FIXED it :)
i narrowed down both issues to an underlying audio problem (as you can see, fight.wav issue AND unstoppable fighting HAD to be related, no?)
You rock, bro! Very nifty troubleshooting there. Congrats!
babaz75
03-03-2011, 09:22 PM
btw, congrats to the developer for the "Excellence in Design" at the IGF 2011
you absolutely deserve it
BRAVO!
dislekcia
06-03-2011, 08:55 AM
When Marc said thanks to the DD community, he meant you guys :)
Catwalk
08-03-2011, 10:46 PM
I agree with many of r0ger's sentiments, so I'm quoting his post:
1) It would be great if you could see the numerical damage you will do to an enemy when you hover. It currently represents this graphically, but it would be good to see it numerically (in white text, perhaps) over the health bar.
Would be really, really nice. And hopefully easy to do.
2) I would like a "regenerate level" button alongside the retire button. Players are going to do it anyway, and this saves them some time.
Don't quite agree with this one, I think a better way to go is encouraging players to always make an attempt at the dungeon they get. One way to do this is to carry over some kind of reward from a victorious game, which you'd then lose if you give up on your next game right away.
3) It seems to me that the racial benefits of the Human and Orc are reversed from the fantasy standard: Orcs are strong and Humans learn quickly. Also, the Goblin racial benefit needs to be reworked and the Halfling and Gnome abilities aren't all that interesting. In fact, I think that the idea of only deriving glyph conversion from race makes the races a bit more boring than they need to be.
Agree with these points, the races are a little too bland. How about having two traits for each race, glyph conversion and then another little thing? I like how races aren't super important, but they're not interesting enough as is IMHO. Also agree about switching human and orc bonuses for thematic reasons.
4) The carry-over gold is a bad idea. I like the idea of letting the player start with more gold as they complete more challenges with more classes.
Agree strongly. How about +10 gold for each game won? So if you win 2 games in a row, you start with 20 gold in the third game. Although this could be abused by picking the easiest combo over and over for more cash. Maybe only allow one bonus per class in a single run, so you'll have to play multiple classes if you want the bonuses.
5) How about a campaign mode which allows players to keep playing with the same character after finishing a map. After each level the player returns to level 1 and loses glyphs but keeps items. With each level the monsters become stronger. The player should be able to save between levels to keep in line with the 10 minute play session window.
Keeping items would be way overpowered. Imagine having a platemail or a vampiric sword at the start of a game which you also get to keep after you're done.
6) Display available deities at the start of the map. Deities are major powerhouses, and it's frustrating having to gamble or throw away a lot of black squares trying to find out what your options are. With the above option for gold conservation you would still be encouraged to not restart until you get the deity you want. Alternatively, make it much less costly to join up later.
7) Streamline deities a bit more. While it's charming that the deities are highly thematic, many of their traits have little gameplay impact. I think it's possible to keep the thematic approach while making traits have more interesting gameplay implications. For example, The Earthmother is a one-trick pony with a relatively useless poison immunity boon. There's really only one way to play her, use plantation to get stoneform and then level up lots. Conversion options are very interesting strategically, but could also be balanced better.
8) Glyphs. While they don't all need to be equally strong, many are just way too weak. In particular, all the teleport glyphs very rarely see use in my games. The stone stuff is also extremely limited if you're not using them for class or deity purposes.
Keep up the good work!
Indeed :) This game is amazing in concept, I'm thoroughly impressed with the creative genius that came up with this.
iceblademush
10-03-2011, 08:02 AM
Well done DD for "Excellence in Design" at the IGF 2011 :)
SKINNYERIC1
11-03-2011, 06:43 PM
Desktop Dungeons needs a private forum!
Chevron
12-03-2011, 11:39 AM
So how come I haent seen a demo on the Android market yet? I'd love to play this on my Desire HD.
Chippit
12-03-2011, 07:48 PM
So how come I haent seen a demo on the Android market yet? I'd love to play this on my Desire HD.
They're working on it ;)
So how come I haent seen a demo on the Android market yet? I'd love to play this on my Desire HD.
They're working on it ;)
Whip them harder! I'm getting mah android this week and this would be awesome to play anywhere!
Chippit
13-03-2011, 08:52 AM
On an unrelated note, have I mentioned how freaking awesome it is when you and Chevvy post in the same thread now? Because it's freaking awesome.
ovizii
21-03-2011, 12:56 PM
not sure if this is the place to ask for help but I keep getting sound related errors, almost after every action during the game, here are a few samples:
ERROR in
action number 1
of Create Event
for object SelectWatch:
Sound does not exist.
___________________________________________
ERROR in
action number 1
of Create Event
for object SelectWatch:
Sound does not exist.
___________________________________________
ERROR in
action number 1
of Mouse Event for Left Released
for object SelectButton:
Sound does not exist.
SkinkLizzard
21-03-2011, 02:46 PM
those errors generally happen when you run the game from inside the zip file
if this is what you're doing you need to extract the entire contents of the zip file to a new folder,
which should fix the sound issue and any profile save/load issues.
Chippit
21-03-2011, 03:26 PM
not sure if this is the place to ask for help but I keep getting sound related errors, almost after every action during the game, here are a few samples:
ERROR in
action number 1
of Create Event
for object SelectWatch:
Sound does not exist.
___________________________________________
ERROR in
action number 1
of Create Event
for object SelectWatch:
Sound does not exist.
___________________________________________
ERROR in
action number 1
of Mouse Event for Left Released
for object SelectButton:
Sound does not exist.
Make sure you're extracting all files from the zip before playing the game.
breaker
21-03-2011, 10:42 PM
Hi, first time poster. I've been playing this game for a couple of weeks and I have to say... it is truly amazing. This is probably my favorite game to come out of the indie scene since Cave Story. The best thing about the game, in my opinion, is the amount of character options you have. When I first opened up the game, I was like " Woah... look at all those classes..." And none of them have failed to dissappoint, but me and the Monk aren't really on speaking terms since that little trip into the Snake Pit for the first time...
But I have to ask, after looking at the Wiki a bit, especially in the feedback areas, I was wondering if you devs were still taking peeps at that once in a while, or if we should just bring any ideas/concerns/bugs here first? It seems like Dis used to be very active in the bug area of the archived pages, but now the area just looks a bit... empty, albeit cleaner : )
Looking back through the last 6~ pages, one of the topics that caught my eye were people talking about a lightning bolt glyph or something and it reminded me of a concern I had when I was first playing through with the Sorc. I know that Burn spawns every game, but a lot of the time you can't get to it without wasting a huge chunk of exploration, unless your a wiz, but it's such a necessary glyph for many classes. Maybe, to give the heavier caster classes a bit more of a chance to make a fight for it without Burn, you could put in a second glyph that acts as a similar attack? To make it unique, you could make it weaker, but have some kind of secondary effect.
Example, and I don't really like this idea, because ice anything in a game usually turns me off, but ( Ice Bolt: 75% damage of a fireball, opponent loses 20-25% damage on it's next PHYSICAL attack). Something along those lines, it could allow caster-heavy characters a fighting chance in some special dungeons where it's either find Burn early or die...
My personnal request is Rare bosses : D I noticed the current special dungeons, with the exception of Snake Pit, kind of fit well with the theme of some of the gods, Library-Mystera, Factor-Binlor, Crypt-Dracul, maybe have characters have a small chance of encountering a god boss on certain dungeons instead of the usual two bosses?
But ya, the game runs bug free for me, and I'm looking forward to Lurk's artwork and Hack-Free High Scores in the retail version : D
PS Good job knocking Minecraft out of the sky for that award!
Edit: When I refered to the wiki, I meant both the feedback and brainstorming areas
vintersphrost
22-03-2011, 10:25 PM
first post...
here is my tileset, based upon edited sprites of makai toushi saga (better known as final fantasy legend), a little bit of minecraft and super mario bros.
http://www.files.to/get/2949/pai3qt018x
http://www.redshamrock.ch/vintersphrost/DD/all_big.gif
http://www.redshamrock.ch/vintersphrost/DD/1.jpg
http://www.redshamrock.ch/vintersphrost/DD/2.jpg
http://www.redshamrock.ch/vintersphrost/DD/3.jpg
http://www.redshamrock.ch/vintersphrost/DD/4.jpg
breaker
23-03-2011, 12:16 AM
Wow, very impressive!
Did you make every one of those sprites?
dislekcia
23-03-2011, 03:42 AM
Hi, first time poster. I've been playing this game for a couple of weeks and I have to say... it is truly amazing. This is probably my favorite game to come out of the indie scene since Cave Story. The best thing about the game, in my opinion, is the amount of character options you have. When I first opened up the game, I was like " Woah... look at all those classes..." And none of them have failed to dissappoint, but me and the Monk aren't really on speaking terms since that little trip into the Snake Pit for the first time...
But I have to ask, after looking at the Wiki a bit, especially in the feedback areas, I was wondering if you devs were still taking peeps at that once in a while, or if we should just bring any ideas/concerns/bugs here first? It seems like Dis used to be very active in the bug area of the archived pages, but now the area just looks a bit... empty, albeit cleaner : )
Looking back through the last 6~ pages, one of the topics that caught my eye were people talking about a lightning bolt glyph or something and it reminded me of a concern I had when I was first playing through with the Sorc. I know that Burn spawns every game, but a lot of the time you can't get to it without wasting a huge chunk of exploration, unless your a wiz, but it's such a necessary glyph for many classes. Maybe, to give the heavier caster classes a bit more of a chance to make a fight for it without Burn, you could put in a second glyph that acts as a similar attack? To make it unique, you could make it weaker, but have some kind of secondary effect.
Example, and I don't really like this idea, because ice anything in a game usually turns me off, but ( Ice Bolt: 75% damage of a fireball, opponent loses 20-25% damage on it's next PHYSICAL attack). Something along those lines, it could allow caster-heavy characters a fighting chance in some special dungeons where it's either find Burn early or die...
My personnal request is Rare bosses : D I noticed the current special dungeons, with the exception of Snake Pit, kind of fit well with the theme of some of the gods, Library-Mystera, Factor-Binlor, Crypt-Dracul, maybe have characters have a small chance of encountering a god boss on certain dungeons instead of the usual two bosses?
But ya, the game runs bug free for me, and I'm looking forward to Lurk's artwork and Hack-Free High Scores in the retail version : D
PS Good job knocking Minecraft out of the sky for that award!
Edit: When I refered to the wiki, I meant both the feedback and brainstorming areas
Heya. We still check the wiki and here every few days. We're starting to see some serious yaw between feedback and the version we're currently working on though, so sometimes things aren't always super-relevant seeing as we've already made changes that deal with specific problems...
Take the idea of secondary damage for spellcasters. We noticed that too, it's been brought up quite a lot and we've dealt with it in a few ways: Firstly, on lower difficulty levels, Burn spawns twice for Wizards, giving players more chance of finding it (one of the spawns is also weighted towards the player location, but not too much); Secondly, the Pisorf spell has been changed to knock monsters back instead of randomly teleporting, during the playsessions at the GDC we saw a lot of players start using the wall-break knockback damage as a secondary damage mechanism for spellcasters, it was pretty cool seeing that come into play :)
I'm not saying we're not listening, the ice spell certainly sounds interesting, but there are so many changes coming in the new version that some ideas are going to make little sense at the moment.
I like the god-boss idea! The perfect place to put enemies like that is in the sub-dungeons that we've been adding... In fact we've sort of got a couple of really hard "bonus boss" fights in the works, but nothing that's explicitly an avatar of a god, I'll lob that idea at Nandrew and see what comes out the other end, thanks.
P.S. Skink and Chippit, you guys rock :)
dislekcia
23-03-2011, 03:46 AM
first post...
here is my tileset, based upon edited sprites of makai toushi saga (better known as final fantasy legend), a little bit of minecraft and super mario bros.
http://www.files.to/get/2949/pai3qt018x
Downloading now, I'll take a look tomorrow, thanks :)
One quick point, the floor tiles seem a little busy in terms of repeating contrasts: If you desaturate those a little, they'll blend better and won't clash with the items that are designed to contrast with the floor (instead of feel like islands of negative space at the moment where they obscure the busy floors).
The glyphs on scrolls idea is really cool! I like that.
corroded
24-03-2011, 10:18 AM
Hi I've been playing DD for awhile and i finally unlocked all classes and races. But I still don't have the siege available. Is this a bug or do i have to FINISH with all classes?
http://grab.by/9Eyg screenie of my profile
psychocamel
24-03-2011, 11:51 AM
corroded: you do not have all classes and races unlocked yet.
Take note of the 5 darkened options on the right side. You have the first advanced class "Transmuter" unlocked, but not the two underneath it or the three next to them.
If you hover over one of those it will tell you what is required to unlock it, this involves using specific classes in specific dungeons.
corroded
24-03-2011, 06:15 PM
Ohhhhhh. It escaped my mind that the transmuter was another class. Thanks for pointing that out!
psychocamel
24-03-2011, 08:18 PM
No problem =]
vintersphrost
26-03-2011, 08:55 AM
Wow, very impressive!
Did you make every one of those sprites?
the most of them are edited to match derek yu's idea of the monsters and charakters.
King Duran
26-03-2011, 03:06 PM
Hello, I am new to Desktop Dungeon.
I recently downed Desktop Dungeon Version 0.151(Windows). However, I get these messages after clicking the icon for Desktop Dungeon.
The 1st error msg:
http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/rr198/kingduran_2008/Error%20message%20images/DesktopDungeonErrormsg1a.jpg
after I click CLOSE , I get this 2nd error msg:
http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/rr198/kingduran_2008/Error%20message%20images/DesktopDungeonErrormsg2a.jpg
I click OKAY then nothing!
I was wondering did I miss a part? I selected all under winzip, and extracted to a folder.
My OS is Windows ME.
Memory is 256 ram.
Video 3D AGP
Processor Intel 450
dislekcia
26-03-2011, 03:28 PM
I was wondering did I miss a part? I selected all under winzip, and extracted to a folder.
My OS is Windows ME.
Memory is 256 ram.
Video 3D AGP
Processor Intel 450
Do you have an idea of the version of DirectX you're running? If you don't, try downloading DirectX 9c somewhere and installing that. Might help... I haven't actually tried running any Game Maker games on ME myself.
Ronkoteus
27-03-2011, 01:44 AM
Hi,
Thank you for making this great little game. I absolutely love it. I have played few roguelike games in the past: ADOM, ToME, Nethack and Zangband. I used to spend hundreds of hours playing those, especially ADOM, my old favorite. DD is totally different, fast and simple but still extremely intriguing to keep you hooked.
In my last game with Elf Wizard in Library dungeon I found both Mystera Annur's and Tikki Tooki's altars and WEYTWUT glyph very early on level 1. I'm not sure if this one is a feature or bug: Conversion from Tikki Tooki to Mystera Annur costs a whopping 95 piety (normally it's 60) after I have taken all Tikki's boons and still have 100 piety by level 2, a bit over half of the dungeon explored. All this was of course archieved by spamming WEYTWYT and occasionally killing monsters without taking damage with BURNDAYRAZ and GETINDARE.
EDIT: I think I found another one: played the same dungeon with Elf Bloodmage. Saved all the mana potions against the Matron just to notice that I can't drink the damned potions, the button doesn't do anything. 'M'-key didn't work either. :(
breaker
28-03-2011, 12:57 AM
I believe the Mana Potion glitch is known about, with part of it being that mana potions will become unuseable after drinking a couple of them.
I've never used deity conversion much, I'm not sure if the price of it is supposed to increase the more buffed you are.
dislekcia
28-03-2011, 02:55 AM
In my last game with Elf Wizard in Library dungeon I found both Mystera Annur's and Tikki Tooki's altars and WEYTWUT glyph very early on level 1. I'm not sure if this one is a feature or bug: Conversion from Tikki Tooki to Mystera Annur costs a whopping 95 piety (normally it's 60) after I have taken all Tikki's boons and still have 100 piety by level 2, a bit over half of the dungeon explored. All this was of course archieved by spamming WEYTWYT and occasionally killing monsters without taking damage with BURNDAYRAZ and GETINDARE.
That's sorta the point ;) I believe that's the reason that particular conversion is so expensive.
EDIT: I think I found another one: played the same dungeon with Elf Bloodmage. Saved all the mana potions against the Matron just to notice that I can't drink the damned potions, the button doesn't do anything. 'M'-key didn't work either. :(
You probably couldn't drink the potions because Bloodmages get damaged by mana potions and you'd have killed yourself. We decided not to let that happen to players, seemed a little unfair to let you die that way. I guess we still get a lot of complaints this way as well tho :(
psychocamel
28-03-2011, 10:04 AM
No complaints here, but it did take me a bit to work that out too. It's easy to forget about the bloodmage drawback.
Perhaps if when you try to drink it you get a message flash saying "need more hp" or something? It might also help a little if when you choose your class the abilities are in white (as they are now) and the drawbacks are in red.
Though I think people still could get confused, at some point you just gotta accept that it can take people a while to realize what the problem is.
It's also a common state of gamers nowadays to assume if there's something wrong it's a glitch.
dislekcia
28-03-2011, 12:46 PM
No complaints here, but it did take me a bit to work that out too. It's easy to forget about the bloodmage drawback.
Perhaps if when you try to drink it you get a message flash saying "need more hp" or something? It might also help a little if when you choose your class the abilities are in white (as they are now) and the drawbacks are in red.
Though I think people still could get confused, at some point you just gotta accept that it can take people a while to realize what the problem is.
It's also a common state of gamers nowadays to assume if there's something wrong it's a glitch.
Yeah, if we keep the "you can't kill yourself with potions" thing, we need to let the player know that something different is going on when they click and don't get the expected result. In the full it's a lot easier: We can just ping the Bloodmage's effect - so players will mouse over it and realise what's going on. Then again, if players kill themselves by drinking a potion, you can bet they won't do that again... So we're still not 100% sure how to handle that specific case. We'll figure something out eventually ;)
King Duran
29-03-2011, 10:06 AM
Originally Posted by dislekcia
Do you have an idea of the version of DirectX you're running? If you don't, try downloading DirectX 9c somewhere and installing that. Might help... I haven't actually tried running any Game Maker games on ME myself.
I'm using direct X 9.0c. Oh, Well I guess another game I won't be able to play. I can't afford a new pc.
This game does look interesting.
dislekcia
29-03-2011, 11:38 AM
I'm using direct X 9.0c. Oh, Well I guess another game I won't be able to play. I can't afford a new pc.
This game does look interesting.
There's apparently a problem on some machines that have active printers: GM conflicts with a print spooling service, causing errors. If you are running a printer, try disabling your print spooler. Apart from that, I can't think of anything that might be wrong if you've got that DX version.
We've been moving away from GM for a while now, the new versions of DD are all in Unity - you should be able to play the game soon :)
dislekcia
29-03-2011, 11:38 AM
I'm using direct X 9.0c. Oh, Well I guess another game I won't be able to play. I can't afford a new pc.
This game does look interesting.
There's apparently a problem on some machines that have active printers: GM conflicts with a print spooling service, causing errors. If you are running a printer, try disabling your print spooler. Apart from that, I can't think of anything that might be wrong if you've got that DX version.
We've been moving away from GM for a while now, the new versions of DD are all in Unity - you should be able to play the game soon :)
King Duran
29-03-2011, 12:05 PM
Originally Posted by dislekcia
There's apparently a problem on some machines that have active printers: GM conflicts with a print spooling service, causing errors. If you are running a printer, try disabling your print spooler. Apart from that, I can't think of anything that might be wrong if you've got that DX version.
I don't have a printer.
Originally Posted by dislekcia
We've been moving away from GM for a while now, the new versions of DD are all in Unity - you should be able to play the game soon :)
Cool :LP:! I will wait and watch for the next version of dd. Thanks!
Relonos
02-04-2011, 02:20 AM
I now have a different problem! I cannot start DD once again even though print spooler is disabled! Uggh i want to play so bad! Help?
srulz
02-04-2011, 03:55 AM
Okay, I've unlocked every character classes/races just now, and I felt compelled to give feedback to you AWESOME guys for this AWESOME game! Behold:
1. Earthmother IS good. Basically my strategy with her is not the "patented" one: namely leave 10 bloodstains and petrify 2 more etc2. My strategy is simple: petrify 10 as low level monsters as possible, then you can get Stoneform, AT LEVEL 1. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, I finished two of the hardest (IMHO) challenge using this tactic => Assassin at Crypt, Wizard at Factory just now. You don't get blocked by the plants, and sometimes you simply will be able to kill the bosses -even- when you are "walled in".
2. Mystera blows. The piety gain is too slow, and the only way to get maximum benefit from her is to spam IMAWALL on the boss (which costs you no mana whatsoever, but still counts as piety gain). Which just reeks of brokenness and/or bad design, sorry for the frankness.
3. Binlor Ironshield is a mixed bag. Whenever I got him, I will instantly go into "mining mode" - smash every wall instantly but strategically (besides a blocking monster and/or enable me to gain maximum regen), regen my mana by exploring, and repeat smashing (and levelling if out of mana) until I got Heroics (Hardiness first if I'll get enough piety), and then go kill the boss. Which made my game short and sweet, just the way I like it! Though I more often lost than not, heh. My future strategy will include mid-fight Heroics to increase my chances.
Hopefully this is enough feedback for you! Can't wait for the full version...psst, if you got any extra beta invites, please throw 1 my way :D
dislekcia
02-04-2011, 04:16 AM
I now have a different problem! I cannot start DD once again even though print spooler is disabled! Uggh i want to play so bad! Help?
Damn... I'll take a look through the thread and see if I can find anything that might help. Really sorry it's not working for you.
Okay, I've unlocked every character classes/races just now, and I felt compelled to give feedback to you AWESOME guys for this AWESOME game! Behold:
1. Earthmother IS good. Basically my strategy with her is not the "patented" one: namely leave 10 bloodstains and petrify 2 more etc2. My strategy is simple: petrify 10 as low level monsters as possible, then you can get Stoneform, AT LEVEL 1. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, I finished two of the hardest (IMHO) challenge using this tactic => Assassin at Crypt, Wizard at Factory just now. You don't get blocked by the plants, and sometimes you simply will be able to kill the bosses -even- when you are "walled in".
2. Mystera blows. The piety gain is too slow, and the only way to get maximum benefit from her is to spam IMAWALL on the boss (which costs you no mana whatsoever, but still counts as piety gain). Which just reeks of brokenness and/or bad design, sorry for the frankness.
3. Binlor Ironshield is a mixed bag. Whenever I got him, I will instantly go into "mining mode" - smash every wall instantly but strategically (besides a blocking monster and/or enable me to gain maximum regen), regen my mana by exploring, and repeat smashing (and levelling if out of mana) until I got Heroics (Hardiness first if I'll get enough piety), and then go kill the boss. Which made my game short and sweet, just the way I like it! Though I more often lost than not, heh. My future strategy will include mid-fight Heroics to increase my chances.
Hopefully this is enough feedback for you! Can't wait for the full version...psst, if you got any extra beta invites, please throw 1 my way :D
That's some pretty awesome feedback! Thanks :) I'm hoping to kick that Mystera IMAWAL bug soon, you're right, it's broken. Nicely done with the level 1 stoneform, that's a really interesting sounding tactic, I'm going to have to try it.
DDplayer
05-04-2011, 08:05 PM
First time posting, but felt the need to post this since I've been playing for quite a while now.
I've unlocked everything and gotten to Gauntlet level 17 so far and I must say: There isn't anything fun or entertaining about having to take a few minute break to restock cash back to max before attempting your next serious run. I'd REALLY love to see gold just set to max before each run to skip this tedious process that adds nothing to the game.
The current system is basically akin to having a game of tetris where before you're allowed to get any of the long rectangular blocks, you have to earn them before each time you play by beating the first level of Mario bros.
dislekcia
06-04-2011, 10:35 AM
First time posting, but felt the need to post this since I've been playing for quite a while now.
I've unlocked everything and gotten to Gauntlet level 17 so far and I must say: There isn't anything fun or entertaining about having to take a few minute break to restock cash back to max before attempting your next serious run. I'd REALLY love to see gold just set to max before each run to skip this tedious process that adds nothing to the game.
The current system is basically akin to having a game of tetris where before you're allowed to get any of the long rectangular blocks, you have to earn them before each time you play by beating the first level of Mario bros.
Yeah, gold in the alpha is interesting: It creates a level of persistence that drives players to keep playing, but it eventually frustrates hardcore players that are trying to pass specific dungeons.
In the full version we've got this concept of a Bank that players can pay cash to upgrade. It gives each adventurer a starting allowance when they head out to explore, as you upgrade the Bank, the allowance amount increases. Sure, that comes out of your Kingdom gold, but you'll usually always have more of that than a single adventurer will be able to carry :)
Relonos
07-04-2011, 09:39 AM
Wait wait wait wait wait, there's a full version coming out? WHATTTTTT? That means that this... this is beta? OMG Now I'm excited! :)
dislekcia
07-04-2011, 12:49 PM
Wait wait wait wait wait, there's a full version coming out? WHATTTTTT? That means that this... this is beta? OMG Now I'm excited! :)
The freeware version you're playing is still the alpha. Beta is coming soon :)
Arthandas
08-04-2011, 08:54 PM
The freeware version you're playing is still the alpha. Beta is coming soon :)
Does it mean that beta will not be freeware?
Fan_blade
09-04-2011, 12:56 AM
Okay I have a problem. I downloaded v0.15 on my HP which I bought in '09, so it's pretty new. However when I try starting it I get this error:
Failed to initialize Direct 3D. Old graphic cards do not support this. Also make sure that version 8.0 or later of DirectX is installed on your machine.
So I installed Direct 9.0c in hopes that it will work. It still didn't. So then I re-downloaded, and that still didn't work. Any other ideas on how to get this game working? I'm not using an old computer so I don't think that it's my graphic card.
SkinkLizzard
09-04-2011, 01:25 PM
try updating your gfx card drivers and see if it helps
BlackShipsFillt
10-04-2011, 04:59 PM
Can I beta test for moneys please?
dislekcia
10-04-2011, 10:11 PM
Does it mean that beta will not be freeware?
We're looking at offering the beta as a pre-order incentive at the moment.
So I installed Direct 9.0c in hopes that it will work. It still didn't. So then I re-downloaded, and that still didn't work. Any other ideas on how to get this game working? I'm not using an old computer so I don't think that it's my graphic card.
Can you run any other GM games on the machine? Chances are that updating your drivers will help (sounds like a versioning error) and if that doesn't work, there might be a conflict with a specific printer spooling process, but that's pretty arcane.
Can I beta test for moneys please?
You have to come over at some point!
t0nedude
12-04-2011, 11:20 AM
EDIT: Scratch this post (except the part where I say I will buy the full version lol). Just read a post that said that the LEMMISI Glyph still reveals squares that you wouldn't normally be able to reach by normal exploration! Well that explains it then....:)
LEMMISI.
Am I missing something here? Everyone seems to think that this Glyph kicks major booty but I convert it to bonus virtually all the time, having found no real use for it that can't be solved by exploring normally (plus the fact you'll gain an extra 3 mana by normal exploration). Monsters still regenerate once you use it so if you are trapped from exploring by a too powerful creep, using it won't help as your trapper will regenerate negating any use.
Please enlighten me as to its real benefit because I can't see any, asides from being a novelty the first time you use it.
PS I've unlocked almost all the classes and loving the game so far....will definitely pay for the full version when it's released.
Tony.
dislekcia
12-04-2011, 04:33 PM
EDIT: Scratch this post (except the part where I say I will buy the full version lol). Just read a post that said that the LEMMISI Glyph still reveals squares that you wouldn't normally be able to reach by normal exploration! Well that explains it then....:)
LEMMISI.
Am I missing something here? Everyone seems to think that this Glyph kicks major booty but I convert it to bonus virtually all the time, having found no real use for it that can't be solved by exploring normally (plus the fact you'll gain an extra 3 mana by normal exploration). Monsters still regenerate once you use it so if you are trapped from exploring by a too powerful creep, using it won't help as your trapper will regenerate negating any use.
Please enlighten me as to its real benefit because I can't see any, asides from being a novelty the first time you use it.
PS I've unlocked almost all the classes and loving the game so far....will definitely pay for the full version when it's released.
Tony.
LEMMISI also works a lot better with a few of the rebalanced glyphs in the full. We knew it was a bit of an odd glyph: You either converted it on the spot or you'd leave it there for late-game health. We decided against changing it too much though, so it hasn't been through the wringer like PISORF has ;)
XuaXua
12-04-2011, 05:49 PM
Late congrats on the IGF win!
Question: what is the Beta ETA?
dislekcia
13-04-2011, 11:41 AM
Late congrats on the IGF win!
Question: what is the Beta ETA?
Thanks :)
Beta is cruising, we're adding quests and content and trying to balance out the Kingdom progression - Nandrew's doing tons on that. The rest of us are working on stuff that'll be important once the beta is ready to go. Shouldn't be too much longer now, a month or less (we hope).
t0nedude
13-04-2011, 02:49 PM
Thanks for the reply Disleksia, but I have another observation:
Just had a Level 6 Warlord die at the hands of a Level 3 Goblin :( the 'mouseover' said 'VICTORY' but the 'click' killed me. I guess it must have been because the Goblin had 'First Strike'. Shouldn't this be included in the decision making for the mouse-over battle summary? I usually do the maths but this one caught me out and misleaded me until after the (then too late) fact. :(
Great game though.
Tony.
dislekcia
13-04-2011, 05:42 PM
Thanks for the reply Disleksia, but I have another observation:
Just had a Level 6 Warlord die at the hands of a Level 3 Goblin :( the 'mouseover' said 'VICTORY' but the 'click' killed me. I guess it must have been because the Goblin had 'First Strike'. Shouldn't this be included in the decision making for the mouse-over battle summary? I usually do the maths but this one caught me out and misleaded me until after the (then too late) fact. :(
Great game though.
Tony.
Whoa, that's an odd one... The prediction should have said DEATH if there's any way an enemy can do enough damage to kill you (it'll say DEATH even if you have kill protection active). I don't do the maths in combat anymore - the hp-bar colour change is basically all I look for.
Relonos
16-04-2011, 01:54 AM
Guess who's DD suddenly started working again after having Spooler disabled after it being on for like a week? *Points to himself* this guy! :) Looking forward to Beta!
Navidson
16-04-2011, 02:47 AM
Loving this game so far, I got frustrated with it after the difficulty increased but I keep coming back and making gains.
Suggestion: The Bloodmage should be able to kill himself with mana potion usage either all the time or at the very least when he has the death protection buff. Not being able to use my last mana pot kept the boss alive with just a sliver of health =(
Off to try again!
dislekcia
17-04-2011, 01:44 PM
Guess who's DD suddenly started working again after having Spooler disabled after it being on for like a week? *Points to himself* this guy! :) Looking forward to Beta!
Yay! Glad it works now :)
Loving this game so far, I got frustrated with it after the difficulty increased but I keep coming back and making gains.
Suggestion: The Bloodmage should be able to kill himself with mana potion usage either all the time or at the very least when he has the death protection buff. Not being able to use my last mana pot kept the boss alive with just a sliver of health =(
Off to try again!
Hah, interesting idea... I'm not entirely sure, but the new event system should actually work this way at the moment. Bloodmage isn't fully implemented yet, but when he is I'll make sure to test. Thanks!
Catwalk
20-04-2011, 07:00 PM
Is there any way we can be tossed a comprehensive teaser for what the full version is planned to look like? Would make it a lot easier for us to give feedback. Thanks for the good work, keep it up.
dislekcia
21-04-2011, 12:16 AM
Is there any way we can be tossed a comprehensive teaser for what the full version is planned to look like? Would make it a lot easier for us to give feedback. Thanks for the good work, keep it up.
Sooooooooooooooon.
We'll have a lot of new info out there in as short a time as we can manage.
Pilfred
22-04-2011, 04:21 PM
Nvm. Lol.
dislekcia
22-04-2011, 04:53 PM
I've been working on the new site for the last week, Aeq's been hammering away at the backend and getting a game specific forum ready and Nandrew's been smacking the full version into something we'd feel comfy putting out there as a beta soon. So we're getting there!
lilbear
22-04-2011, 10:45 PM
Sooooooooooooooon.
We'll have a lot of new info out there in as short a time as we can manage.
Just checking in to make sure y'all didn't need your butts set on fire to hurry up with the full version. Glad to hear I don't need to play arsonist. :P
How restricted is the Beta gonna be? Or, more specifically, can I play it when it's ready? I promise to provide, hopefully, constructive feedback. Please, please, pretty please! :D
You're on Extra Credits on the escapist. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/3080-Games-You-Might-Not-Have-Tried-or-Heard-Of
Cleric
24-04-2011, 07:32 PM
You're on Extra Credits on the escapist. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/3080-Games-You-Might-Not-Have-Tried-or-Heard-Of
Was coming to say the same thing. Absolutely awesome for the guys to be called "brilliant" by another major player.
breaker
28-04-2011, 04:31 AM
I swear to god, I would buy into the Beta if the only change was an 'auto-reset' button for the rooms.
Seriously, take my money, take it now.
dislekcia
28-04-2011, 04:30 PM
I swear to god, I would buy into the Beta if the only change was an 'auto-reset' button for the rooms.
Seriously, take my money, take it now.
Hmm. That's an interesting idea... It'd have to be balanced to prevent scumming for specific start conditions, like a cost of 5 gold off the amount you bring into the dungeon or something. I'll suggest it at the next design session.
breaker
29-04-2011, 06:54 AM
Hmm. That's an interesting idea... It'd have to be balanced to prevent scumming for specific start conditions, like a cost of 5 gold off the amount you bring into the dungeon or something. I'll suggest it at the next design session.
But that's what player's would need it for and what they do already.
Heck, scumming for certain start conditions is arguably necessary is some cases, but that's a different discussion altogether.
I'd suggest, if you're going to put something in that discourages players from scumming, don't make it something that makes the player's chances of succeeding in the run lower, because then essentially you're putting in the button to convince players not to use the button~
Or heck, just put a limit on the button's usage, or make them cost money from the kingdom's bank, which would cost the player, but not make the run weaker? It would make sense from a plot perspective because each time you 'reset' the dungeon, you're essentially funding another campaign out without really bringing anything of worth ( boss heads ) back.
breaker
09-05-2011, 06:38 PM
Umm, do you guys plan to keep up with the current wiki, or switch over to a new one completely when the retail version comes out?
I ask, because if you are, and I know its been said before, something needs to be done with the amount of spam and dummy accounts that have been hitting to wiki. Also, do you need special permission to delete pages, because I've just been 'blanking' ones that absolutely don't belong there so that an admin might see.
But ya, it's surprising how many seemingly random pages have been added to it.
Level10Goat
10-05-2011, 07:09 AM
I'm really liking this game, really looking forward to the next update, and let's just go right ahead and say it; I've had an idea for a class.
I'm sure various classes will be introduced in future updates, but I've been perusing the wiki, and found that there is, in fact, no class based around religions!
So how to remedy this, you say? Well, um...have one. Pretty simple solution, I'm surprised you didn't think of that. I mean, if you've got a mental disability, that's fine, but um...you've got to be REALLY stupid to ask me how to remedy this.
Anyway, here's my class idea:
*Name not found*(Priest would've been an awesome name, but it already exists)
Abilities:
There is one extra Altar in a dungeon when using the *name not found*.
All boons will have double effectiveness(Pactmaker's mana boon would give you 20 extra mana, for example, or Dracul's Bloodpower boon would give you 10 extra mana and 10 less health).
Gains a single point of piety for every dungeon block explored, regardless of deity.
A little overpowered? Yes. But so's the Apheelsik glyph. Like, seriously. It is thoroughly possible to murder the bosses face if you've got Cydstepp and Apheelsik, even as say, a level 1 warrior. Yes, it would be annoying as heck, but as long as it's not a magic-resist boss, it's possible.
Also, this doth be my first post, so...yeah! I'll probably only ever post in this thread, too.
dislekcia
10-05-2011, 04:20 PM
Umm, do you guys plan to keep up with the current wiki, or switch over to a new one completely when the retail version comes out?
I ask, because if you are, and I know its been said before, something needs to be done with the amount of spam and dummy accounts that have been hitting to wiki. Also, do you need special permission to delete pages, because I've just been 'blanking' ones that absolutely don't belong there so that an admin might see.
But ya, it's surprising how many seemingly random pages have been added to it.
I think the idea is that we'll freeze the current wiki as a resource for players who still get the free version, then keep the new version feedback and responses on the forum that's coming with the new website. Do you think we should freeze the wiki now actually? I do check it for bugs and suggestions in the feedback section, but we're pretty close to never touching the freeware again. It might be an idea to alleviate the burden of preventing spam early if the content isn't changing anymore...
Huge thankyous for killing the spam BTW, I'll take a look at it tonight and see if there's anything I can do to make killing it easier for you.
I'm really liking this game, really looking forward to the next update, and let's just go right ahead and say it; I've had an idea for a class.
I'm sure various classes will be introduced in future updates, but I've been perusing the wiki, and found that there is, in fact, no class based around religions!
So how to remedy this, you say? Well, um...have one. Pretty simple solution, I'm surprised you didn't think of that. I mean, if you've got a mental disability, that's fine, but um...you've got to be REALLY stupid to ask me how to remedy this.
Anyway, here's my class idea:
*Name not found*(Priest would've been an awesome name, but it already exists)
Abilities:
There is one extra Altar in a dungeon when using the *name not found*.
All boons will have double effectiveness(Pactmaker's mana boon would give you 20 extra mana, for example, or Dracul's Bloodpower boon would give you 10 extra mana and 10 less health).
Gains a single point of piety for every dungeon block explored, regardless of deity.
A little overpowered? Yes. But so's the Apheelsik glyph. Like, seriously. It is thoroughly possible to murder the bosses face if you've got Cydstepp and Apheelsik, even as say, a level 1 warrior. Yes, it would be annoying as heck, but as long as it's not a magic-resist boss, it's possible.
Also, this doth be my first post, so...yeah! I'll probably only ever post in this thread, too.
I think the major reason we didn't have a class that's centred around the concept of religions is because the religion system is designed to change the way people play existing characters. So that means that they arrived the other way around: First we did class design and balance, then we added religions. There might be room for a character that focuses mainly on religion, but only if we could figure out a way to make that character play safely even if you didn't actually worship at all. You'll notice that none of the characters are "vanilla", they all have something that changes their playstyle rather drastically.
However, I think you'll be pleased to hear that most of the sorts of single-shot gameplay changes you've mentioned are actually in some ways already in the full version: The Church (which unlocks the Priest, Monk and Paladin) has a bunch of blessings available that impact religion for a price. Sounds like we should write a blog about that so that we can explain it all :)
Seriously, the whole Preparations system is way too cool. Adds a ton of meaningful decisions to the otherwise boring menu screen.
Level10Goat
11-05-2011, 01:07 AM
So, I hear there's going to be a full version for retail...
Will that have enough new things to be worth the price(And what will such a price be)?
Ezzer
11-05-2011, 01:10 AM
I WOULD LIKE TO REPORT A BUG UH
sorry if it's already been posted!
But if you manage to slay the boss without having killed any other monsters the game won't properly end. I've been screwed out of 2 runs this way :(
dislekcia
11-05-2011, 10:02 PM
So, I hear there's going to be a full version for retail...
Will that have enough new things to be worth the price(And what will such a price be)?
We're still talking about price right now. There will probably be a pre-order period that will let you get the full game for a discount, as well as opening up access to the beta so we can test some of the more complex changes.
To put it bluntly, yes there's a ton of new elements well beyond simple balance changes: The entire metagame has changed completely and we've significantly expanded the game when you're in dungeons too. For a longer explanation, see the snippets we post on the QCF blog (http://www.qcfdesign.com) ;)
I WOULD LIKE TO REPORT A BUG UH
sorry if it's already been posted!
But if you manage to slay the boss without having killed any other monsters the game won't properly end. I've been screwed out of 2 runs this way :(
Firstly: Wha? How?! Killing a level 10 should be nigh on impossible with a level 1 character. Are you playing Orcs and leveling up off glyphs? Even then, that's a lot of damage for a level 3 to put out...
Secondly: What does "not end properly" mean? Are we talking the game behaves oddly if you click the Retire button after killing the boss, or is there something else that you're expecting to happen that isn't being triggered?
guanlik
12-05-2011, 05:27 PM
can anyone tell me how to calculate item rank that will come out?
im currently unlock 17 class (vampire not yet), and 15 class has finish factory dungeon.
i dont understand how to calculate item that will come out, this page has shown me but i still cant understant: http://www.qcfdesign.com/wiki/DesktopDungeons/index.php?title=Items
lilbear
12-05-2011, 08:00 PM
We're still talking about price right now. There will probably be a pre-order period that will let you get the full game for a discount, as well as opening up access to the beta so we can test some of the more complex changes.
Pre-order + Beta = Fabulous idea!
We want you focused on kickin' DD's tires, not worried about the rent. :D
To put it bluntly, yes there's a ton of new elements well beyond simple balance changes: The entire metagame has changed completely and we've significantly expanded the game when you're in dungeons too. For a longer explanation, see the snippets we post on the QCF blog (http://www.qcfdesign.com) ;)
It's been awhile since I've been to your site, so thanks for the reminder. ;)
Of course, now I'm even MORE excited to see the alchemy being conjured. But a piece of advice: Since y'all are trying to create gold (and I have NO doubts that you'll succeed!), ya might wanna lock up them Imps sooner than later. ;p
Okay guys, I want to play this game so badly, but it wont simply allow me to :(
First of all when I tried playing it on Win7 64bit it simply didnt load ( Corrupt File error ), so then I went to try it on Win XP, IT WORKS, but there are no TURNS for me, IT just flies through them, by that I mean : whenever i try to kill a monster, it attacks it without stopping ( for a second turn, to drink a potion or smt ) so I die ALWAYS at the last boss, any help on this subject?
I want to play it so badly :(
The Last Baron
13-05-2011, 04:27 AM
Hey guys, awesome game, I've been playing it ever since I heard about it from my friend Jason when you guys stayed at his house for GDC. I was wondering if you guys have any way that I can donate money, aside from buying the retail version when it's released.
dislekcia
13-05-2011, 01:26 PM
can anyone tell me how to calculate item rank that will come out?
im currently unlock 17 class (vampire not yet), and 15 class has finish factory dungeon.
i dont understand how to calculate item that will come out, this page has shown me but i still cant understant: http://www.qcfdesign.com/wiki/DesktopDungeons/index.php?title=Items
Seems like a bit of an odd question, why would you want to know? I mean, shop items are there to be played around and used in your strategy if you can figure out a way for them to be useful. Trying to predict them from a player perspective would be like trying to predict the exact dungeon layout every game.
dislekcia
13-05-2011, 02:33 PM
Pre-order + Beta = Fabulous idea!
We want you focused on kickin' DD's tires, not worried about the rent. :D
It's been awhile since I've been to your site, so thanks for the reminder. ;)
Of course, now I'm even MORE excited to see the alchemy being conjured. But a piece of advice: Since y'all are trying to create gold (and I have NO doubts that you'll succeed!), ya might wanna lock up them Imps sooner than later. ;p
Thanks, we're working full steam on getting pre-orders up and running. Also got some pretty awesome news for the game coming up on the site :)
Okay guys, I want to play this game so badly, but it wont simply allow me to :(
First of all when I tried playing it on Win7 64bit it simply didnt load ( Corrupt File error ), so then I went to try it on Win XP, IT WORKS, but there are no TURNS for me, IT just flies through them, by that I mean : whenever i try to kill a monster, it attacks it without stopping ( for a second turn, to drink a potion or smt ) so I die ALWAYS at the last boss, any help on this subject?
I want to play it so badly :(
Ah, I believe that's the old print-spooler error rearing its head again, isn't it? Basically, Game Maker has conflicts with the spoolsv service on certain computers that might cause it to spam mouse clicks, which would explain why your combat happens so crazy fast. The win7 64 bit problem is simply because the game wasn't written for 64 bit OSes, but it should work if you right click on the shortcut and set the compatibility mode to windows XP or 32 bit.
Hey guys, awesome game, I've been playing it ever since I heard about it from my friend Jason when you guys stayed at his house for GDC. I was wondering if you guys have any way that I can donate money, aside from buying the retail version when it's released.
Pre-orders should be possible very soon! Say hi to Jason for us ;)
SkinkLizzard
13-05-2011, 03:06 PM
Ah, I believe that's the old print-spooler error rearing its head again, isn't it? Basically, Game Maker has conflicts with the spoolsv service on certain computers that might cause it to spam mouse clicks, which would explain why your combat happens so crazy fast. The win7 64 bit problem is simply because the game wasn't written for 64 bit OSes, but it should work if you right click on the shortcut and set the compatibility mode to windows XP or 32 bit.
I thought this was the "one sound file being encoded differently and so caused it not to play correctly on some systems, in turn causeing
a loop" problem ? (and spooler caused crashes ?)
I thought this was the "one sound file being encoded differently and so caused it not to play correctly on some systems, in turn causeing
a loop" problem ? (and spooler caused crashes ?)
Yes this turned out to be the problem, turning the sound off solved it. When it comes to the Win7 problem I managed to create a little fix for it, with hooking the memory and bypassing the troublesome KERNELBASE.dll issue. That was a long road. Off to play abit.
P.S. The compatibility mode won't solve the problem for anyone with the corrupt data error
dislekcia
13-05-2011, 07:10 PM
I thought this was the "one sound file being encoded differently and so caused it not to play correctly on some systems, in turn causeing
a loop" problem ? (and spooler caused crashes ?)
Yes this turned out to be the problem, turning the sound off solved it. When it comes to the Win7 problem I managed to create a little fix for it, with hooking the memory and bypassing the troublesome KERNELBASE.dll issue. That was a long road. Off to play abit.
P.S. The compatibility mode won't solve the problem for anyone with the corrupt data error
Ah. How long ago did you download the game? I thought that we'd fixed the corrupt sound problem...
Pardon me for asking but does the commerical version of DD have a release date yet? If not do you have an estimated time?
Ezzer
14-05-2011, 07:08 AM
Secondly: What does "not end properly" mean? Are we talking the game behaves oddly if you click the Retire button after killing the boss, or is there something else that you're expecting to happen that isn't being triggered?
oh, how dumb of me! I guess I didn't realiz that hitting "retire" was the only way to get the dungeon to end? To be fair when I made the post every previous run had ended with the game prompting me telling the benefits of beating the dungeon with that specific class, so after I finished off the boss and nothing happened I was a bit perplexed.
Firstly: Wha? How?! Killing a level 10 should be nigh on impossible with a level 1 character. Are you playing Orcs and leveling up off glyphs? Even then, that's a lot of damage for a level 3 to put out...
Transmuter worshipping Binlor. Killing things is not a necessity!
dislekcia
14-05-2011, 02:56 PM
Pardon me for asking but does the commerical version of DD have a release date yet? If not do you have an estimated time?
We don't have an official release date yet, still too many things going on that we just don't have control over. However, we sorta feel that the earliest the full version's going to be 100% ready is in 3-4 months, if that helps.
The beta, on the other hand, is looking a lot closer than that - but obviously nowhere near as polished as the full ;)
dislekcia
14-05-2011, 03:15 PM
oh, how dumb of me! I guess I didn't realiz that hitting "retire" was the only way to get the dungeon to end? To be fair when I made the post every previous run had ended with the game prompting me telling the benefits of beating the dungeon with that specific class, so after I finished off the boss and nothing happened I was a bit perplexed.
Transmuter worshipping Binlor. Killing things is not a necessity!
First up, have a medal! Totally hadn't played a Transmuter like that before, nice.
Yeah, you have to retire. It's something we've changed in the full version: The whole mechanic of leaving a dungeon (victorious or not) is different. The Transmuter doesn't have any unlocks, so you end up not having that notification popup when you win.
We don't have an official release date yet, still too many things going on that we just don't have control over. However, we sorta feel that the earliest the full version's going to be 100% ready is in 3-4 months, if that helps.
The beta, on the other hand, is looking a lot closer than that - but obviously nowhere near as polished as the full ;)
Cool thanks for clearing that up :)
What does one have to do to be part of the beta?
Ah. How long ago did you download the game? I thought that we'd fixed the corrupt sound problem...
Two days ago, I redownloaded it 10 times, so its actually <24hrs old.
dislekcia
14-05-2011, 08:59 PM
Cool thanks for clearing that up :)
What does one have to do to be part of the beta?
Right now we're thinking all pre-orders should get beta access ;)
Two days ago, I redownloaded it 10 times, so its actually <24hrs old.
Oh damn. I'm going to have to go through the zipfile release with a fine-toothed comb then. Thanks for letting me know!
Ezzer
14-05-2011, 11:39 PM
First up, have a medal! Totally hadn't played a Transmuter like that before, nice.
I kinda feel like it should be an achievement.
STRAIGHT TO THE POINT: Slew the dungeon boss without having killed any other monsters
BlackShipsFillt
15-05-2011, 03:49 PM
Transmuter worshipping Binlor. Killing things is not a necessity!
Genius! I have to say, I'm kind of in awe of you Ezzer. Either you're incredibly lucky, or the finest Rogue-like player I've ever heard of.
Also I'm in awe of Desktop Dungeons for having a ruleset that allow this kind of interesting thing to occur.
Pre-orders?!
Ezzer
17-05-2011, 01:11 AM
I'm kind of surprised myself no-one seems to have thought of it before. It seemed like a rather obvious strategy!
dislekcia
17-05-2011, 01:33 PM
I'm kind of surprised myself no-one seems to have thought of it before. It seemed like a rather obvious strategy!
I think a lot of people dismiss the Transmuter class because it's so different to play.
Those huge class differences are what we're trying to get our heads around for scoring at the moment ;)
The way you describe the new main menu sounds over whelming D:
Will it be easy to adjust to?
dislekcia
20-05-2011, 11:33 AM
The way you describe the new main menu sounds over whelming D:
Will it be easy to adjust to?
We hope so! The choices that players have to make have been streamlined a lot: Instead of having a horde of buttons that you can click on at any time (even though at the moment it sorta looks similar) we've made each step along the way highlight specific buildings that you can interact with. Some buildings serve multiple purposes, depending on the decision the player needs to make. So the Adventurers Guild might provide a class choice to the player when it's time to select a class, as well as being highlighted during preparation selection if the player has upgraded the adventuring lockers. The idea is not to overwhelm anyone, but make more room for choices at the same time. It's a tricky balancing act and one of the major reasons we need to run a beta.
Catwalk
21-05-2011, 06:09 PM
About level scumming and gold hoarding
Gold feels pointless at the moment because you can simply restock before a real run. While players can impose house rules on themselves saying not to do that, I think most players would have more fun with a different system. It's a little like allowing for reloading, players can simply refrain from using it but it might be too much of a temptation for many players and would end up making the game less interesting. This can easily be tied in with level scumming. I propose the following:
1) Starting gold for a new game is determined by how many successive runs you've made
2) Only one run per class at a dungeon will be counted, so you get no benefit from completing the Crypt multiple twice with a Transmuter (for example)
3) For each unique successive run, you get 5 + x/3 gold added to your starting gold total in new games, where is the number of classes you've completed the Crypt with (replaces current bonus to max gold)
3) No gold is carried over otherwise
4) Whenever you die or fail to complete a run, the progress of one class at this dungeon (for purposes of gold hoarding only), chosen at random, is wiped from your records
5) This system is only implemented for the four challenge dungeons
6) In Lothlorien you always start with 100 gold in the first mission, and you keep whatever is left over
7) In the Gauntlet the system is implemented with three differences: Progress is tracked independently of the challenge dungeons, you're allowed to use the same class multiple times and the gold transferred is twice of what is transferred for challenge dungeons
8) When mousing over a dungeon, the game will show you both which classes you've completed the dungeon with and which characters you've completed it with in the current run
This way the normal dungeon is used mainly for practice and unlocking stuff without having to worry about dying, and the challenge dungeons become a bit more challenging. You'll really feel the pressure to squeeze out a win from a difficult map, even if it seems impossible. On that note, "impossible" maps should be removed. You should not be stuck in a room where all the exits are blocked by high level monsters.
It would also be possible to simply wipe the progress each time you die, but that would be rather heartless and probably frustrating to many players. A setback is a more interesting challenge than a complete reset.
Catwalk
21-05-2011, 07:05 PM
About regeneration and exploration
One thing that both intrigues and annoys me about DD is the regeneration system. I really like the concept of non-replenishable resources that you have to make the most of, but I absolutely hate having to ration my exploration. It makes luck a much bigger factor, especially for purposes of finding altars and glyphs early on. If you have to walk through half the factory in search of a fireball glyph and a high level thingy-that-is-vulnerable-to-FB (forgot the name), your run is all but over. Whereas if you find both in the first handful of explored tiles, your run is all but won. And with most altars giving significant bonuses for signing up early, the problem is compounded. At the same time, it's usually way too easy to explore most of the dungeon killing just a few level 1 monsters. I propose the following:
1) Monsters will be specifically set up to block your progress during map generation
2) The map generator will be more likely to put low level monsters near your starting position and high level monsters further away
3) All dungeon features (items, altars, shops) will be guarded by a monster standing on top of it
4) Thieves will be able to steal items from monsters and rogues will be able to sneak by monsters (not sure how)
5) Automatic regeneration is replaced by food rations which will be scattered around the dungeon
6) There will be a rest button which lets you consume food to regain HP and MP, in the same way regeneration functions now
This will encourage exploration while at the same time making it more difficult, and will keep the core regeneration system essentially unchanged. There will still be a finite amount of regeneration available in the dungeon, and monsters will regenerate when you rest. Monsters will be of more interest because they're no longer mere XP farms waiting to be harvested, you'll much more often need to kill them for a specific purpose other than XP.
Catwalk
21-05-2011, 07:20 PM
Miscellaneous ideas
1) Dodge is changed so that it takes effect every x blows, completely predictable
2) Potions will allow you to exceed normal HP and MP, all surplus points after reaching your max will be halved before they're added to your total
3) Gods changed to make it less important to sign up early, there are already measures in place to do that but they aren't really working
4) All altars will be guarded by a high level monster (7-9)
5) All altars will be present on every map! Or maybe increase it to 5 altars per map.
BlackShipsFillt
22-05-2011, 04:06 PM
About regeneration and explorationI really like the concept of non-replenishable resources that you have to make the most of, but I absolutely hate having to ration my exploration. It makes luck a much bigger factor, especially for purposes of finding altars and glyphs early on.
I do like a lot of your ideas Catwalk (and I think QCF probably really appreciates that you are providing creative feedback), but I just wanted to comment on this one.
I can't exactly speak for Disleksia and Nandrew, but I'm pretty certain that having exploration a resource is Desktop Dungeons.
I hear what you're saying though, it does beg a bit of extra suspension of disbelief. But imagine this: If Desktop Dungeons were to be modified like you suggest then players would always explore every square available, in fact as soon as you kill a monster everything the monster was blocking should become revealed automatically.
So the only choice players need to make is which monster to kill next and whether or not to consume food/use alters/buy from shops.
This admittedly is what the player goes through in other rogue-likes, but in Desktop Dungeons, the way it is, every tile of movement is an important tactical decision. Although what you have suggested could be just as difficult as Desktop Dungeons, the tension that Desktop Dungeons creates, that forces players to take it seriously and makes the reward for completing a dungeon that much sweeter, would be lifted.
Sorry about the lecture... on the other hand I really like the idea of guarding shrines... It has got a nice flavour to it. Also I like the idea of pickpocketing monsters or finding sneaky paths.
I still marvel at the brilliance of turning exploration into a resource in a rogue-like game. I guess I feel passionate enough about it to defend it.
Catwalk
22-05-2011, 04:54 PM
You make valid points, and I concede that I'm probably in the minority on this one. I've debated the same point for many games countless times and found myself on the losing side more often than not. I'll stick to my guns, though :)
While I agree that this is an integral feature of DD, I think that my proposal maintains the spirit of it. Regeneration is still a limited resource that requires you to explore, and monster regeneration will function exactly the same as now. I feel strongly about luck in games, and find that this particular aspect of DD adds way too much luck. In that way, it's highly detrimental to my game experience. Many aspects of the game serve to minimize the luck aspect (such as combat and even distribution of items on every map), so I find this to be a great shame.
Yes, the game would be a little bit simpler with this proposal. To me, the puzzle part of DD is a big part of its appeal. It has a rogue-like feel to it, but it actually breaks with a lot of rogue-like dogma and succesfully so. I think this proposal would help stress the puzzle part of the game greatly. There'll be more known information and you'll be able to make more qualified decisions rather than having to guess. And for me personally, I'd be able to finish a game a little faster. I play to excel, and I can much more quickly make a decision based on known information than on unknown information. You can still plan around unknown and random factors, but it's really difficult. Usually you'll just forego planning and see what the roll of the dice brings you, then take it from there. As I explained, these guesses can make or break a game in a difficult dungeon. In an easier dungeon with a strong class you can probably overcome bad luck, Transmuter always wins for example :)
I don't mind at all adding a bit to the complexity of the game btw, and if that is done I feel it is further justified to make this change. It looks like a bunch of features will be added in Unity, throw in pick pocketing and sneaking on top of that and you have a deliciously complex (yet simple) game that I'd happily pay for.
I doubt we'll ever agree on this point, which is okay with me. I hope you're up for discussing the other points too ;)
BlackShipsFillt
22-05-2011, 07:54 PM
I don't think DD is going to change its core at this late point... especially after winning the IGF prize for design...
But a game with your suggestions would indeed make a good rogue-like puzzler, albeit a different experience to DD (like you say, with less constant guessing and a lot less luck).
I would think that in that case, without the exploration as a resource, a few more complexities should be added. I mean DD is quite complicated... but if all the available monsters are known then there may need to be a few other factors to make predicting the correct monster to fight a more nuanced decision.
Ie. If which monster to pick on next is the only problem the player is facing, then I think that factors like chaining monsters and more effects upon leveling up or on killing certain monsters could be emphasized.
Actually, let me say here, I am 100% against any puzzle game that involves no luck at all, if every single choice can be made correctly then I may as well be solving sudokus. What I enjoy is finding optimal solutions that can be applied to partial information about a set of goals and then testing my predictions against the results.
I'm certain that you, Catwalk, can't be against luck entirely, otherwise I can't imagine you enjoying DD at all... but what I'm guessing you want is more information in order to make better predictions that don't feel as lucky.
I've actually been thinking about making a Desktop Dungeons inspired game ever since DD was first made public... though the thing I would change about it would be to make it real-time and time itself a resource (a lot like half minute hero in fact). Because in truth I'm a secret fan of real-time gameplay.
Catwalk
22-05-2011, 08:41 PM
Because in truth I'm a secret fan of real-time gameplay.
Seems like you're a very different sort of gamer than I am :) And nothing wrong with that, of course. I generally enjoy turn-based gameplay, being able to play at my leisure and pondering decisions for as long as I like. I think a RT based game would have to be dumbed down even further in order for it to be fun to play (Diablo as an example, way dumbed down but very popular), else you'll just be stressed out.
I don't think DD is going to change its core at this late point... especially after winning the IGF prize for design...
I actually do think that the core functionality of the game stays the same with my proposal, and it upholds the good aspects (IMO) of the concept of having a fixed amount of resources in the game.
I would think that in that case, without the exploration as a resource, a few more complexities should be added. I mean DD is quite complicated... but if all the available monsters are known then there may need to be a few other factors to make predicting the correct monster to fight a more nuanced decision.
I think that having monsters guard stuff (along with multiple ways of dealing with monsters, teleporting monsters away would also become a lot more interesting and I notice that this is already being emphasized in Unity) would go a long towards accomplishing that, adds another major factor to decision making. And to me, DD is very much a leisurely tabletop game. Not having to think as much as in other strategy games (but still more than normal rogue-likes) is greatly appealing to me.
Actually, let me say here, I am 100% against any puzzle game that involves no luck at all, if every single choice can be made correctly then I may as well be solving sudokus. What I enjoy is finding optimal solutions that can be applied to partial information about a set of goals and then testing my predictions against the results.
I'm certain that you, Catwalk, can't be against luck entirely, otherwise I can't imagine you enjoying DD at all... but what I'm guessing you want is more information in order to make better predictions that don't feel as lucky.
Defining luck is tricky, people often mean different things when they use the word. I'm not opposed to randomness in games, for starters. And used properly, I generally prefer some element of randomness to none at all. Chess never appealed to me, for example. I'll give you two examples of randomness, one that I like and one that I dislike:
1) Keywords. This is a Danish game which plays little like charades. The basic concept is that you roll four 12-sided dice with letters on them, and using those four letters as starting letters you make up to four words that will help your partner guess the word on your card. Some rolls are better than others, but it is always possible to come up with good keywords if you're creative enough. One of the plays I'm particularly proud of was using the words "Gives Wheels Nourishment" to help my partner guess the word Gas Station (category was place). This is an excellent use of randomness and I enjoy that game greatly.
2) Kahootz. This is also a Danish board game which is quite similar to the above. Each player has a card in front of him (which he can't see) with a single word to guess. The player left of him rolls a pair of dice which determines how many keywords he gets. He then uses any number of words to help that player guess the word. If the player at the bat has more words to spare after he guesses it, he may use those words on the next player's word. This is a bad use of randomness IMO. Rolling a 12 is infinitely better than rolling a 2. A player can get a decisive advantage through good rolls that can't be negated through skill. No matter what, rolling higher is better than rolling lower.
These examples demonstrate well how I feel about luck, but they're a little difficult to transfer to a single player rogue-like puzzle game. Arguably, luck is much less of an issue in a single player game since you're only competing against yourself. If it was just a question of some maps being harder than others, I wouldn't have a problem with that. My problem is when you have to resort to guessing and can't really formulate a proper plan. Changing the regeneration system isn't the only way to remedy what I see as a critical flaw in DD. If gods are changed to make it much less crucial to sign up early, a major luck component has been removed. I also find myself enjoying enhanced visibility a lot as it gives you a much better basis for making decisions. In fact, Transmuters + Half Dragons + Vampires are much less luck oriented than the other characters and I enjoy these the most. I suppose it's half a solution to remedy it through character selection, but I'd much prefer not to be stuck with 3 classes to have fun. If glyphs are balanced better (which they will be) and spread out more evenly (which seems to be happening already), that will also mitigate luck somewhat.
BlackShipsFillt
22-05-2011, 09:55 PM
Seems like you're a very different sort of gamer than I am :)
:) I like all sorts of games... but I like making certain kinds. I guess I'm part animator at heart so real-time speaks more to me.
I think a RT based game would have to be dumbed down even further in order for it to be fun to play (Diablo as an example, way dumbed down but very popular), else you'll just be stressed out.
Although I don't think it'd appeal to you, Half Minute hero isn't exactly dumbed down... it is slightly more forgiving, but even so it is in fact a lot more stressful, and strangely that is part of the appeal (to a certain audience).
But speaking of audience I've debated with Nandrew about randomness before, about his Onslaught of the Electric Zombies, which I thought had too much randomness (of the kind you don't like that makes winning/losing sometimes something outside of the players control).
While Desktop Dungeons has much less of that sort of randomness, it still retains some at it's core. (as you have pointed out)
What I find very interesting is that audiences don't seem as adverse to this sort of randomness as myself (and certainly you). What you term a "critical flaw" in fact seems to drive some of the success of the game.
It really helps DD that uncontrollable randomness is a choice, in that players can choose to receive more information by choosing classes that have scouting abilities, or choose to have some other advantage but be at the whim of the game's layout.
I expect that without the choice to be able to reveal more players would not forgive DD for it's randomness. But as it stands entering a Desktop Dungeon is often a great gamble between more power or more information, which is something unique to DD, I don't myself like more gambling heavy play styles, but I think I can see the appeal for others.
Studying DD for me has been a bit of a schooling in randomness, it does a lot of things beautifully in ways that I wouldn't have done them and I'm always very interested to see how people respond.
By the way Catwalk... I don't suppose you build games? It would be cool to see you give your idea a shot (and I'm sure the QCF team would be interested as well, as they have been in the past with DD inspired games, although I cannot speak for them of course).
Maybe a nice compromise could be a few more classes that have scouting type abilities that remove the randomness of the layout as a factor driving the player's success? Maybe also a little more predictability of the level design, I mean more defined sets of rules/themes to the generation of the maps that could be learnt by players?
But like you said Catwalk, the desire for less uncontrollable randomness is probably a fringe desire. Don't know... I'll probably keep thinking about ways to make it work in real-time :)
dislekcia
23-05-2011, 02:32 AM
Wow, hardcore discussion ;)
First off, I really don't think there's any good reason for us to change the core mechanic that DD is built around. Exploration = regeneration is the major factor that drives pretty much everything in the game. It's not an accident that all the hardest classes to balance are the ones that have differences in their regeneration strategies. The food+rest suggestion has a few big drawbacks, particularly late game when a player has what essentially amounts to regeneration stored up for free. The granularity of regeneration is what makes so many of the choices in the game work. Reducing that granularity means that there are far fewer points where players have to reconsider what they're currently trying to do: Compare knowing that you can get a full regen off a specific "amount" of space vs not being sure a passage will be blocked or not. It's this granularity that lets us experiment with different dungeon layouts and generators, seeing what sorts of different experiences those create is really enlightening.
I think the real issue that you're responding to is actually more about the strategies that you've discovered for success in the game so far: Relying on specific overpowered combos is something we wanted to remove in the full. We've mainly done that via upping the usefulness of all the spells, there are no more instant conversions. Information load is not the major problem in the situations you describe, inflexibility is... Try playing a Wizard with no fireballs or not worshipping a god at all ;) (Seriously, gods are there to change play-styles and add extra hurdles, not as crutches to create powerful combos - the rebalanced gods reflect this much better)
Just the other day I did a run through the freeware, seeing how many games it would take me to get all the classes and races. Managed every class at first try, even with a couple of blocked-in runs where I had to use potions early to get out (and one memorable teleport - blocked runs are much less of a problem in the full BTW). Only started having to retry with the Monk in the Snake Pit and the Wizard through the Factory (couldn't deal enough damage to the SMM the first time around, shouldn't have taken Mystera). Then again, I know the game inside out, but even then I'm not making "perfect" decisions because of the random nature of the game, I'm simply responding in the way that removes the least number of options for eventual success.
Yes, level scumming and gold buildup are things that we need to deal with, but we've chosen a completely different set of strategies to do so: The Kingdom handles all of that really well, whilst giving the player more agency in their own progression at the same time. Choosing which preparations you want access to is rewardingly nuanced, deciding which specific ones you want to pay for before each individual run is even more interesting. Some of the preparations even deal with dungeon information: There are quite a few ways to learn more about the dungeon layout, for example; Or you might be tempted with the various Glyph control options from the Wizard's Tower... It's also not a great idea to make things like dodging deterministic: That's the one random immediate effect in the game and because of that it DOES change play styles drastically. If it were completely predictable, why not simply amortise the damage you'd "not take" out over 5 hits and give the player 20% resists instead of allowing them to scum for dodge hits off small monsters and save the sure dodges for a boss? It's not a viable solution. Then again, I happen to think the Witch's dodge potion is ****ing awesome ;)
The thing is, we're aware of individual differences in play-style more than anything else. We have to keep the game balanced for everyone that plays it. As such, changing something as fundamental as the regeneration doesn't make sense. Although I would be pretty keen to see what you come up with if you do build your own game that follows your ideas. I think you'd find it'd be very different to DD in the end. You'd probably have to include die-based random damage to create situations that are open to player response, for instance.
Catwalk
23-05-2011, 03:29 AM
:) I like all sorts of games... but I like making certain kinds. I guess I'm part animator at heart so real-time speaks more to me.
...
By the way Catwalk... I don't suppose you build games? It would be cool to see you give your idea a shot (and I'm sure the QCF team would be interested as well, as they have been in the past with DD inspired games, although I cannot speak for them of course).
I love "making" games, although I've never done anything other than mods for existing games. Unless you count my pool variant, aptly named CatBall :P I just went to shoot some pool today and found a few players who liked it, so it's been a good day. I've made (meaning I've started out, made very decent progress and then couldn't be arsed to complete it) mods for several strategy games: Civilization II, Master of Orion, Master of Magic, X-Com: Terror From the Deep and Colonization. I used to have a dream about actually making computer games, but I'm currently 31 and haven't really gotten far with anything :) So those dreams are shelved for the time being, maybe I'll have my own little game some day when I get old. I love providing feedback though, especially if the game designer shares some of my philosophies about good game design. I spent a good part of the last 10 or so years playing an online game named Utopia, an MMO strategy game whose prime virtue was that the game ran in rounds of 2-3 months after which the game was reset and everybody started over. Between rounds the rules were changed, sometimes a little and sometimes a lot, and the players had a big say in these changes. The game designer did a pretty good of listening to feedback while still pursuing his own vision of the game. If anyone is interested in having me as an unpaid volunteer for an interesting game project, I might well be interested in putting a lot of time into it. Alas, I have no coding skills and no money :)
Although I don't think it'd appeal to you, Half Minute hero isn't exactly dumbed down... it is slightly more forgiving, but even so it is in fact a lot more stressful, and strangely that is part of the appeal (to a certain audience).
I will make sure to try it out!
But speaking of audience
...
too much randomness (of the kind you don't like that makes winning/losing sometimes something outside of the players control).
While Desktop Dungeons has much less of that sort of randomness, it still retains some at it's core. (as you have pointed out)
What I find very interesting is that audiences don't seem as adverse to this sort of randomness as myself (and certainly you). What you term a "critical flaw" in fact seems to drive some of the success of the game.
I agree with this general conflict of interests, and I can't really argue that my ideas would make the game more appealing to everybody, or even the majority. But I do think that good compromises can be made in most cases. Much of the time, what less hardcore gamers object to is micro managing and excessive complexity. Micro managing and excessive complexity often happen as a result of trying to balance games and make them less luck dependent, but it is not necessary. If the objectives of a hardcore gamer can be achieved without it leading to micro managing and excessive complexity, I think chances are good that both camps will be happy. I think that it can often be more constructive to start out with ideals in order to reach a practical compromise later on, rather than curbing your creativity too soon.
It really helps DD that uncontrollable randomness is a choice, in that players can choose to receive more information by choosing classes that have scouting abilities, or choose to have some other advantage but be at the whim of the game's layout.
...
Maybe a nice compromise could be a few more classes that have scouting type abilities that remove the randomness of the layout as a factor driving the player's success? Maybe also a little more predictability of the level design, I mean more defined sets of rules/themes to the generation of the maps that could be learnt by players?
I'd like to optimistically turn this notion upside down: Rather than balancing the game around the interests of casual players and then making exceptions to account for the taste of hardcore players, I actually think games benefit from being balanced around the taste of hardcore players and then making exceptions to account for the taste of casual players. I think Starcraft is a good example of this. It's a complex and demanding (and incredibly well designed) RTS which has a large level of complexity when played multiplayer against good opponents. When there's a skill difference, you don't just lose you get completely floored. But casual players can have immense fun with it in single player mode, or against opponents their own level. Blizzard put a lot of effort into making it a great game for players competing at the highest level, and it has attained a huge hardcore following as a consequence. The same can be said for NetHack, it's a fairly complex rogue-like which definitely caters to their hardcore fans. Maybe they forgot their casual audience a bit, a tutorial or a newbie class would be nice. I'd like to see the same for DD, basing classes around hardcore gamers but making a few classes which are easier to handle for beginners and casual players yet subpar for hardcore players. As long as casual players can have some positive initial experiences with the game, I think they'll consider it appealing that there are areas of the game that are outside of their grasp and which will require a fair bit of mastery to fully enjoy.
That turned into major rambling, so I think I'll end this post here :)
BlackShipsFillt
23-05-2011, 03:47 AM
Wow, hardcore discussion ;)
lol. Catwalk has some very engaging thoughts.
Although I would be pretty keen to see what you come up with if you do build your own game that follows your ideas. I think you'd find it'd be very different to DD in the end. You'd probably have to include die-based random damage to create situations that are open to player response, for instance.
I think that things that lend themselves to losing/winning by chance are a nono for the Catwalk-type audience. But I think something would have to be added to make it more granular. (I'm liking this term)
Even without the exploration == restoration feature there would still be some unknowns, like players would not know what is behind the next monster they fight. But this is relatively trivial compared to the amount of unknowns and their importance in the current Desktop Dungeons.
And like you say Disleksia, the ability to restore oneself whenever one wants makes the strategy far simpler.
But other things could be added in to a Catwalk version (like Catwalk suggests)... maybe things like factionalism and more alters and story type events that make the strategy more flavourful. Maybe some of the elements of Nandrew's Fiendash could become strategic features (like chaining and spending godly favour). Another idea is to include some kind of crafting that allows the player to collect items and resources that fall from monsters or are scattered about the level... or have somewhat random item drops like Diablo, or set drops like a Rogue-like, and have a character customization screen. Another idea is to make every movement and attack cost a turn and score the player based on how many turns he/she takes.
Anyway... there are lots of ways to do it, but it won't be DD.
Catwalk
23-05-2011, 04:35 AM
And I missed the second response before posting, my apologies.
The food+rest suggestion has a few big drawbacks, particularly late game when a player has what essentially amounts to regeneration stored up for free.
Is this much different from how the game is usually played? You'll always want to store some regeneration for the late game, and exploration matters a lot less once you've discovered enough important stuff (wide monster selection, bunch of shops to choose from, god selected) and it's a very minor sacrifice to leave 30-50 tiles unexplored.
The granularity of regeneration is what makes so many of the choices in the game work. Reducing that granularity means that there are far fewer points where players have to reconsider what they're currently trying to do: Compare knowing that you can get a full regen off a specific "amount" of space vs not being sure a passage will be blocked or not. It's this granularity that lets us experiment with different dungeon layouts and generators, seeing what sorts of different experiences those create is really enlightening.
I didn't quite follow this part, sorry. What do you mean by granularity?
I think the real issue that you're responding to is actually more about the strategies that you've discovered for success in the game so far: Relying on specific overpowered combos is something we wanted to remove in the full.
To a large extent yes, and I agree with your notions about flexibility. The more viable options the player has available to him, the less crucial early luck in exploration becomes.
Just the other day I did a run through the freeware, seeing how many games it would take me to get all the classes and races. Managed every class at first try
I agree that blocked runs are not a major concern, was mostly used as an example of things to avoid. That said, you got me going to do you one better on that one :)
Yes, level scumming and gold buildup are things that we need to deal with, but we've chosen a completely different set of strategies to do so: The Kingdom handles all of that really well, whilst giving the player more agency in their own progression at the same time. Choosing which preparations you want access to is rewardingly nuanced, deciding which specific ones you want to pay for before each individual run is even more interesting. Some of the preparations even deal with dungeon information: There are quite a few ways to learn more about the dungeon layout, for example; Or you might be tempted with the various Glyph control options from the Wizard's Tower.
Contributing surplus gold from succesful runs towards kingdom improvements sounds like a really good concept. Will you be able to use gold from unsuccesful runs, though? If so, the whole point is somewhat ruined IMO.
It's also not a great idea to make things like dodging deterministic: That's the one random immediate effect in the game and because of that it DOES change play styles drastically. If it were completely predictable, why not simply amortise the damage you'd "not take" out over 5 hits and give the player 20% resists instead of allowing them to scum for dodge hits off small monsters and save the sure dodges for a boss? It's not a viable solution. Then again, I happen to think the Witch's dodge potion is ****ing awesome ;)
I'd actually consider using small monsters for safe hits a pretty interesting strategy. You only get to use it if they actually hit you, which often won't be the case when you're ready to fight the boss. And any monsters who do hit you may well do enough damage to not make it worthwhile. I think it'll only be useful on occasion, and it'll require a bit of strategizing to work.
I would be pretty keen to see what you come up with if you do build your own game that follows your ideas. I think you'd find it'd be very different to DD in the end. You'd probably have to include die-based random damage to create situations that are open to player response, for instance.
I'm surprised that you think I'd end up having to add more dice tossing. However, actually making a game is way outside the scope of my capabilities, I just like "improving" on existing games :) And I really don't have much I'd want to change about DD, I think it's really well designed.
BlackShipsFillt
23-05-2011, 04:53 AM
I didn't quite follow this part, sorry. What do you mean by granularity?
The term "granularity" in game design is used slightly differently depending on who you talk to. But my understanding of the way Disleksia is using it is that the granularity of the game is the frequency of meaningful choices or events that directly affect the player or move the narrative forward. Desktop Dungeons can be said to have an unusually high granularity because even exploring a single tile can be an important choice.
In certain games a lot of time is spent between decisions or player affecting events, like watching cutscenes in Final Fantasy or hacking through an easy bunch of zombies in Diablo. These games then can be said to have lower granularity.
(unless I am mistaken)
Catwalk
23-05-2011, 05:58 AM
And there we go, blocked in by level 4 monsters in my third game as a Warlord :) Couldn't rise above level 2, and didn't have any way to take down either of the level 4 Warlocks with the resources at my disposal.
Your definition of granularity makes sense, and I suppose I agree. It appeals to me when a game has a high level of granularity. Another way to see it is that the game has an interface that is quick to use and relatively few no-brainer decisions. I wonder if too much of a good thing can be bad, though. I still think I'd rather enjoy automatic exploration and the food + rest system, combined with monsters blocking your paths more effectively. Moreover, the food + rest system might even lead to a slightly easier learning curve for new players, it's easier to grasp intuitively than the exploration regeneration system. But I'll concede the point, I know it won't be changed :)
BlackShipsFillt
23-05-2011, 06:33 AM
Yes, but there will almost certainly be other games like Desktop Dungeons in the future, and no doubt some of those will tweak the explore/regeneration mechanic. (and there is a reasonable chance the future creators may even read your suggestions on this forum)
Catwalk
23-05-2011, 08:15 PM
After a few enjoyable runs, I've found a new challenge to have fun with: See how many Gauntlet runs I can make in a row with a Human Transmuter. No challenge dungeons have been completed (other than the mandatory Snake Pit once), so I have few items to rely on. Human Transmuter is arguably the strongest and most reliable combo, and it's all but guaranteed that you'll be able to find a useful god in time. Earthmother/Binlor are both amazing, Pactmaker/Jehora/Dracul are quite decent and Tiki/Guardian will do in a pinch. That leaves just Taurog and Mystera as useless. Due to the Transmuter's excellent exploration capabilities and not really needing to save tiles for regeneration it's easy to dig up one of these gods before killing monsters.
This diminishes the luck aspect considerably, and success is largely dependent on skill. Furthermore, gold becomes an interesting commodity now since I won't be able to restock between runs. Few items are available, but they're quite useful (Mana pendant and sword in particular, health pendant early on and potions whenever I'm short of resources for a boss kill). I'd love to be able to play in a similar way with more classes, I'm having fun but it gets boring to be restricted to a single class. Plus vampire, I suppose.
Attempting level 3 with Jehora now, almost painted myself into a corner on level 2 as I didn't realize I was facing the boss wraith until after I'd converted my fireball. Early levelling is starting to become difficult, +15% is a considerable handicap.
EDIT: Beat level 3 handily, but it's starting to become difficult. I think I'll clear the challenge dungeons for item bonuses, they're pretty balanced without unlimited funds and give many more options to consider.
breaker
24-05-2011, 06:50 AM
I have a couple small questions for Dis.
One, in previous versions, you could transfer saves across versions and save your unlocks. I know this will probably be impossible or not particularly useful for the full/beta release, but will there be advantages to coming in to the new game with a fully unlocked/ campaign completed freeware save other than simple experience? Also, will the campaign or campaign like challenges be present in the beta? If so, will they retain their difficulty?
Two, I'm liking the conversation going on between Catwalk and BSF. I don't think I'm qualified to keep up with them, but I have to say I disagree with a handful of Catwalk's suggestions simply because this game is special because of two things. 1, the game's regen mechanic, for the majority of the classes/races, this should not be changed under any circumstances.
2, anything that ties this game to it's roguelike routes. This includes the randomness and chance for an occasional impossible death. While both of these probably need to be toned down compared to freeware, if I'm looking for something I can always win by skill alone... I wouldn't be playing a roguelike anything.
dislekcia
24-05-2011, 12:08 PM
One, in previous versions, you could transfer saves across versions and save your unlocks. I know this will probably be impossible or not particularly useful for the full/beta release, but will there be advantages to coming in to the new game with a fully unlocked/ campaign completed freeware save other than simple experience? Also, will the campaign or campaign like challenges be present in the beta? If so, will they retain their difficulty?
We can't carry over saves directly because of the way the progression has changed, but we do want to reward people who have played the freeware a ton. I'd like to do something that would allow you to upload your save file and the game then gives you a one-time reward on your account, but that probably won't be working in the beta until we've ironed out the gameplay balance issues we totally expect to crop up :)
Yes, there will be campaigns and campaign-like elements in the full. We've really expanded on dungeons and the way players interact with dungeons: You can choose quests now! Campaigns will make a return, hopefully we'll be able to have quite a few of varying levels of difficulty.
Two, I'm liking the conversation going on between Catwalk and BSF. I don't think I'm qualified to keep up with them, but I have to say I disagree with a handful of Catwalk's suggestions simply because this game is special because of two things. 1, the game's regen mechanic, for the majority of the classes/races, this should not be changed under any circumstances.
2, anything that ties this game to it's roguelike routes. This includes the randomness and chance for an occasional impossible death. While both of these probably need to be toned down compared to freeware, if I'm looking for something I can always win by skill alone... I wouldn't be playing a roguelike anything.
Yeah, permadeath and the potential to just die horribly is a part of the game, the trick is to try and make it feel a little less unfair on the player. We also do want to make it possible to reward skill, so the choice to back out of a dungeon vs simply dying is a valid one now, you don't get your gold/items if you die. And no, we're not changing the regen, no matter how glibly people argue ;)
Catwalk
24-05-2011, 04:15 PM
Sounds really good about the new dungeon concepts, especially if you're able to stick with the core coffee break concept while allowing for just a little more continuity between games. On the other hand, it sounds like you'll still be able to grind for cash on unsuccesful runs. Is this really the case? If so, is there any mechanic in place to discourage players from grinding? Moreoever, is there any real point in only letting stuff be kept if you quit rather than dying? There is never any need for dying, it happens by accident or simply when you feel like going out harakiri style. Either you can beat the boss or you can't. Distinguishing between dying and quitting unsuccesfully only makes a difference for low level players who don't understand the combat system (including the big bold DEATH hint on the combat screen). Does that reward skill in a meaningful way?
breaker, I agree that the regeneration mechanic is one thing that sets DD apart in a positive manner. Having a finite amount of resources to manage contributes greatly to the game's appeal. I don't think my suggestion breaks with that, merely improves on the concept in a more intuitive and less luck-based manner. Let me know if you all want me to drop the point, I know it won't change ;)
As for random and unpreventable death, I actually think this is the main distinguishing factor of DD. DD strays very far from many RL dogma, and in doing so it becomes more of a puzzle game. That's part of the game's description, and it lets it attract a whole new audience for many reasons. It's definitely one of the things that endears DD to me. What other sources of random an unpreventable death other than being boxed in early on are there? Some maps will be tougher than others (based on layout, character and dungeon features) but even in the toughest ones it's usually possible to wrest a win from it if you optimize your resources really well. Isn't that how it should be?
dislekcia
24-05-2011, 11:22 PM
Sounds really good about the new dungeon concepts, especially if you're able to stick with the core coffee break concept while allowing for just a little more continuity between games. On the other hand, it sounds like you'll still be able to grind for cash on unsuccesful runs. Is this really the case? If so, is there any mechanic in place to discourage players from grinding? Moreoever, is there any real point in only letting stuff be kept if you quit rather than dying? There is never any need for dying, it happens by accident or simply when you feel like going out harakiri style. Either you can beat the boss or you can't. Distinguishing between dying and quitting unsuccesfully only makes a difference for low level players who don't understand the combat system (including the big bold DEATH hint on the combat screen). Does that reward skill in a meaningful way?
The major anti-grind elements are monster trophies. Kill a boss and you get a trophy that sells for a large amount compared to your usual gold haul from a dungeon. This means that yes, you could just enter a dungeon, pick up as many potions and gold as possible and run away, but you'd have to do it a ton to equal just one successful boss kill. There are other balancing factors involved as well: There's a trophy economy, so constantly killing the same boss becomes less lucrative quite quickly and players are encouraged to try harder dungeons or even just ones with boss types they haven't killed in a while.
Choosing to press on or back out is an important choice in several sub-dungeons now too: It's possible for players to become trapped in mini-quest areas if they're too reckless. Sometimes deciding to take on a quest is a really tricky decision. Generally though, the gold picked up during runs is more useful for buying items from shops, it's the items themselves that will make players back out of dungeons earlier. Pick up a really neat item and you know that if you die with it, you're never going to get it into a locker ;)
Catwalk
25-05-2011, 01:27 AM
I'm still not keen on getting anything from an unsuccesful run, but as long as the amount is miniscule I suppose it's a lesser issue. Do you actively want to encourage players to go pick up an item and leave, though? That seems to be quite lucrative with no downside to it.
Will dying function differently in Unity, or will it still be "voluntary"? In the sense that you only die if you misclick or forget to check the combat screen before making an attack. If so, I don't see any real difference between dying and retiring.
From what I can make out of your description of sub dungeons, they're an interesting challenge where you run the risk of being unable to complete the dungeon in order to get some extra loot. This sounds good by itself, but doesn't address the issue of dying vs retiring. Apologies if I seem overly critical, I'm really looking forward to Unity :)
ever consider putting DD on facebook? Itd be awesome to compare scores with your friends.
dislekcia
26-05-2011, 06:42 PM
ever consider putting DD on facebook? Itd be awesome to compare scores with your friends.
There's been thinking around a Facebook version. No real idea exactly how that would work though.
I have to admit, I don't like the angle you guys are taking with the way you're selling this. :/ Specifically, I don't like this in the special edition:
Additional Kingdom building, extra challenge quests and a [/b]unique character class.[/b]
Only the bolded parts, btw, I have no problem with the SE having a few extra quests. That's to be expected from any SE. However, buying an SE and receiving such big advantages that affects gameplay that much, that just screams that the versions have been named incorrectly in my books. With such game altering stuff not being present in the normal version, I'd have called it the 'Elcheapo' version, and the SE the normal version. Especially seeing as the SE is double the price right now.
I don't mean to knock you guys either, I just want you to see it from my point of view. I just don't see any lure in buying the normal edition, and seeing as I can't really afford the SE, I'm not about to buy it anytime soon either, because I'm going to feel slightly ripped off. In a SE, I expect to see maybe an extra weapon or two, an extra dungeon and perhaps a quest or two as well, but definitely not a fully fledged class and 'additional kingdom building'. If I had to buy Dungeon Siege 3, and they told me that the Special addition has another class, I'm certainly not going to be in any mood to buy the normal edition, and if I can't afford the SE, I'm going to pass it by.
FuzzYspo0N
02-06-2011, 07:57 PM
I think i read it as "an additional kingdom building" , not " additional building of your kingdom" . its more content - not more gameplay.
you may want to read the forums over on the QCF site here for more info and discussions about this : http://www.qcfdesign.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16#p19
dislekcia
02-06-2011, 08:04 PM
I have to admit, I don't like the angle you guys are taking with the way you're selling this. :/ Specifically, I don't like this in the special edition:
Only the bolded parts, btw, I have no problem with the SE having a few extra quests. That's to be expected from any SE. However, buying an SE and receiving such big advantages that affects gameplay that much, that just screams that the versions have been named incorrectly in my books. With such game altering stuff not being present in the normal version, I'd have called it the 'Elcheapo' version, and the SE the normal version. Especially seeing as the SE is double the price right now.
I don't mean to knock you guys either, I just want you to see it from my point of view. I just don't see any lure in buying the normal edition, and seeing as I can't really afford the SE, I'm not about to buy it anytime soon either, because I'm going to feel slightly ripped off. In a SE, I expect to see maybe an extra weapon or two, an extra dungeon and perhaps a quest or two as well, but definitely not a fully fledged class and 'additional kingdom building'. If I had to buy Dungeon Siege 3, and they told me that the Special addition has another class, I'm certainly not going to be in any mood to buy the normal edition, and if I can't afford the SE, I'm going to pass it by.
This is what happens when we don't explain the scope of the game properly: The special edition has 1 extra building that houses 1 extra class with a funny twist. The class is completely irrelevant in the greater scheme of things, there's no quest progression tied to it and no amazing unlocks. We have 19 classes so far that we've spent huge amounts of time balancing and polishing, if you really feel that one more joke class is crippling, then I guess we've communicated it poorly. What advantages do you see that could be missed out on? If I can understand that, then I can probably fix the issue :)
Natural Selection 2 had a Special Edition pre order for double the cost solely as a way of supporting the developers: The reward to players was black armor so that other players could tell you'd "donated". We're making SE Kingdoms look slightly different in the same way, to say thanks for being awesome and helping us out.
How would you handle your Dungeon Siege example if SE players got a unique NPC that told jokes instead? ;)
Ah okay. No, I just thought that it would be pointless to buy the normal edition if the SE aded something that made a significant change to gameplay. If it's more of a joke class thing, then I've got no further qualms about it. :P
Also, congratulations on getting the site up and running! Have to say, I haven't been following the project very much, but now that I've read what you've accomplished so far, I'm astounded I kept myself in the dark so long. You guys might be tired of hearing it from other people, but this project is one giant milestone for the SA game development community. It really makes me proud to see people on international forums going on about how much fun the game is. :D
I won't be buying the game soon, though, as I'm going to hold out for the Steam release, but I'm guessing that won't happen until the final version releases.
SC(+)PE
02-06-2011, 11:39 PM
Exclusive edition sold out D:
Oh well. Bought me a special edition :D yay for having a paypal account.
Chevron
06-06-2011, 08:30 AM
When are you guys getting on Steam?
dislekcia
12-06-2011, 09:23 PM
When are you guys getting on Steam?
Not 100% sure yet, just made contact with someone from Valve at E3. Will be following that up as soon as I can think again.
Highscores arent working :/
dislekcia
27-07-2011, 03:22 PM
Highscores arent working :/
Yeah, I think the GMH system that we were using is having problems... Don't worry, we'll have our own high score system for the full version :)
Beta soon!
Chippit
13-09-2011, 08:09 PM
I see Nandrew's engaging in alternative business ventures. Very enterprising of you, sir.
King Duran
07-11-2011, 06:19 AM
My PC is P2 450, 256 ram, 3D Graphic 128m with OS Windows ME. Where can I find desktop dungeon that I can download. I went to website however I am not able to download free. No link is there to click on.
Chippit
07-11-2011, 09:51 AM
My PC is P2 450, 256 ram, 3D Graphic 128m with OS Windows ME. Where can I find desktop dungeon that I can download. I went to website however I am not able to download free. No link is there to click on.
Try this link (http://www.qcfdesign.com/Files/DesktopDungeons/DesktopDungeons_v021.exe). I remember hearing that GM had some compatibility problems with Win ME, but it's certainly worth a try.
dislekcia
08-11-2011, 02:13 PM
My PC is P2 450, 256 ram, 3D Graphic 128m with OS Windows ME. Where can I find desktop dungeon that I can download. I went to website however I am not able to download free. No link is there to click on.
What Chippit said, but with the added angle that we just released an HTML5 version of the alpha: http://www.desktopdungeons.net/HTML5 - if you have a compatible browser, you should be able to play it just fine :)
Chevron
21-11-2011, 06:57 PM
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