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dammit
12-10-2009, 10:23 AM
Not only was I thoroughly impressed with the L4D card game but also inspired to try this kind of game making out for myself. Naturally, someone challenged me to attempt a TF2 card game.

Right now I'm just messing around with some ideas in my head. No idea what the final product will look like, but here's where I'm at so far:

Firstly the game will require 3 decks. 2 decks will be "team mate" cards (one blu, one red, naturally). Number of actual human players can thus vary, and choice of number of cards chosen from the team mate deck can be decided by the players

Eg: If you have two players, each can draw 6 cards thus giving you a game with 12 "players". If you have four players, each can draw 4 cards thus giving you a game with 16 "players". And so on. (max 24 "players").

The 3rd deck will contain play cards. Obviously this is where the fun comes in, as well as the mental challenge for me.

Game will begin with a set up round where any team with an engineer can build two buildings max (level 1).

Then play begins. I'm thinking of working with a capture the points game. Simply having 3 to five points and then working play cards around that.

For example:

Players each take two cards from the play deck and flip at the beginning of the round.
Player1 happens to flip a "Scout Rush" card which enables him/her to send all scouts in their team (even those of other human players) to the first available capture point.
Player1 also flips "Disgruntled Engineer" where all his own engineers miss a turn to build.

Player2 flips a "Backstab" which allows this player to target any of the other teams' players to send them back to respawn (ie: they're put back in the deck and that player must wait a round before picking another team mate from the deck).
Player2 also flips "Crit Rocket" which allows him/her to target another enemy team member for X% damage

While I'm still thinking of other cards and play mechanics there is definitely going to be a "rage quit" card.
"Target one opposing Team Member. That member is removed from the game"

As well as an "Outta Ammo" card : "You can target any player with less than X% health for X% damage, otherwise, miss a turn"

For capturing the points, it's going to come down to luck, I think. Basically there will be quite a few cards for capturing the points, such as "Round end - If at the end of the round you have at least one team member on the point, the point becomes 50% your teams' ". If you happen to have flipped that card and then gotten one player on the point, then you're closer to winning it.

Ideas welcome :)

EDIT: Please note I'll be doing very little on this project until my exams are done, but I wanted to put the idea down somewhere before I forgot.

Kharrak
12-10-2009, 10:28 AM
Ooooh, yeah, I've mused over this as well. I'll throw you some ideas when they pop into my head!

This could be awesome :D

dammit
12-10-2009, 10:33 AM
Actually, now that i think of it... one should draw one card for each team mate one has in their hand. So, if you're playing with 6 team mate cards, you should draw 6 cards. You then lay them over your team mates before flipping so that it is random and you don't get to choose which team mate the cards are related to (including the nasty ones). (Naturally any character specific card would just get swapped... )

Fengol
12-10-2009, 10:51 AM
Everyone's trying to muscle in on the L4D Card Game glory **pout** Even Kharrak was talking about L4D:TCG : The Card Game!

Personally, I'd like to see a combination of the Wormies board with your cards :D

dislekcia
12-10-2009, 04:08 PM
Dammit, don't force yourself to only think about the flipping mechanic. Yes, that works great in the L4D card game because of the randomness of what people get and the tension it creates. In something that's TF2 related, I don't see that being anywhere near as important...

I reckon you should aim for a more considered but patently ridiculous style of play: Have players play cards that they've drawn into hands, but really be odd about what cards might do. Or what about putting cards together to form a map and then having "characters" move around like pieces in checkers.

Basically, put a lot of thought into your mechanics :)

dammit
12-10-2009, 07:53 PM
Will do.

dislekcia
12-10-2009, 08:04 PM
Something that always helps me define mechanics is to explain the game/process to someone else that's never seen or heard of it before. The things you focus on, those are the important things you need to capture in the gameplay.

dammit
13-10-2009, 07:45 AM
Another play style that might work is having two decks, one for each team, which would be a shuffled mixture of Play and Team cards. The players then draw choosen number of cards at the begining and have a build round, keeping other cards in their hands hidden.

Once a capture point becomes available (ie: second round) players get to "attack" the point. All players must put all cards they want to put into play in that round on the point all at once. Kinda like snap. Certain cards may be placed facedown (stickies and spies) while the rest are face up. So, player one may put down a Soldier, a crit rocket card and a facedown card, while player two may play a scout, a scout rush card, a sniper and a "noob" card (player doesn't hit anything, dies at end of the round).

Calculations would then be made on which team survived the round and "dead" or used cards are put back in the pack and new ones are drawn.

You would need to "hold" the point for 3 rounds to win it.

Fengol
13-10-2009, 11:32 AM
From my card game, what really made an impact and "an early win" was to buy some cardboard from someplace like CNC, cut out cards and write on them in pencil so that you can actually play the game. Before I even got as far as play testing with a group of people, I had managed to play part of the game by myself and see where cards should be placed and how they're played.

dammit
13-10-2009, 01:28 PM
I had a similar plan in mind. I've got quite a few spare decks of cards I was going to mess around with. Just playing with ideas now.

dammit
13-10-2009, 06:29 PM
Okay, so I've been given some strong advice from the current Card Game Champ and here's where we're at:

Despite his advice, I'm keeping to two decks of cards (one for each team) containing shuffled "play" and "team" cards.

Play cards will now include various actions that will add points to the team (eg: "Crit Rocket - +1 to team"), and actions that deduct points from the other team (eg: "Rocket Jump - -1 from opposing team").

Cards will also have other actions attached ("eg: Backstab - Remove one opposing team member from play. That player may pick a card from the deck at the beginning of the next round"; "eg: Spawn camped - Player misses a turn, no cards are drawn from the deck).

There will be the option to miss a turn and use that turn to swap one of your own cards for a random draw from the deck.

Naturally there will be cards related to capturing the point, though those need some work.

Players then have the options to put into play any combination of cards they have at the beginning of the round and gain/lose points accordingly. These cards stay on the table unless otherwise removed (by other cards or by the player themselves to change strategy at the beginning of another round).

dammit
14-10-2009, 07:58 AM
Had a chance to sleep on the ideas (yay, sleep!) and now I'm thinking:

We'll need 3 decks. 2 will be colour coded team cards (so one deck for each team). This will make it easier to see who's who when playing in larger groups. And then 1 deck for play cards, which will be neutral coloured. Players will draw equal number of cards from each deck. So, 4 players per side have a maximum of 12 team cards, so they each draw 3 cards from the team pile and then 3 cards from the play deck. Play deck will include weapons for the characters as well as cards that can be played on their own.

Also, I'm thinking of having Capture Point Cards which will just be placed face up on the table at the begining of play. A player captures the Point Card through various methods (either drawing a card from the deck to allow a capture of an empty point, a scout rush, etc, or by removing all team cards off the table from the player who has the point card). Then it's a matter of holding onto that card for a certain number of rounds (i'm guessing 5 will be needed to make the game interesting) to win.

Also, what i didn't mention in the last post is that Fengol was suggesting Combos. As in, you can have on team card with a number of play cards on it to gain extra points each round (eg: Soldier with Rocket Launcher with Crit Rocket).

dammit
27-10-2009, 07:00 PM
Have been doing a considerable bit of thinking on this (what better way to avoid studying? :P ) and I'm thinking that perhaps the main method that a team use (other than lucky cards drawn from the play deck) to capture a point will be to gain X points. So, perhaps, one requires 10 points (gained from using other cards) to be able to capture a free capture point.

One then requires the same points as the team who now control the point PLUS 10 to capture the point from them. (Or, alternatively, reduce their points to below 10 to have the point become free again).

Any thoughts on this method/idea?

Edit: Points will only be added at the end of each round once everyone has had a turn to remove the opposing player's/team's cards from the table. Cards left with point bonuses on the table will then give those players points. Everyone will then draw replacement cards and the next round begins.

Nandrew
27-10-2009, 11:28 PM
I think, at some point, the discussion of the potential ruleset needs to give way to an actual preliminary release (preferably computer-playable, but that's only from my end). It's much more difficult to consider balance, alternative ideas and the like without getting a "feel" for how the game plays first.

Right now, things are clearest in your head. Put those ideas into action and you'll have a much better time trying to show people where you're going. :P

Fengol
28-10-2009, 08:12 AM
I agree with Nandrew that it's probably the time for you to make some cards, grab some tokens and start playing the game.

I can't agree with making it computer-playable though; One, people interact differently and a lot closer in a card game than on a computer so you'll have a tighter feedback loop; Two, you're not constrained making the code work when you really want to focus on making the game work. You can always come back and make it a computer game.

If I may make a suggestion, start by making a list of all the cards you want in the game. Focus on each card's core mechanic, you can add fluff and images later. From the list you can work out how many duplicates you want of each and figure out your total card count. I found producing that first set of cards time consuming (cutting out 100 cards and writing on them) and I advise writing in pencil so if you later need to change a card, it's not a hassle.

Don't forget to put the list on the forum :)

dammit
28-10-2009, 02:11 PM
Eh, sorry guys, at the moment I have to be content with lists and thinking because I'm into my month of exams. I'll post the card list shortly and edit it as I think of more. Will get some actual games going come the end of November :)

dammit
28-10-2009, 05:09 PM
Card Lists (subject to change without prior notification):

Team Deck: There will be 2 of each card per team deck.

Medic with Medi Gun
[defence: 50] [damage: 0] [special: team bonus of +5 defence to all team members]
Scout with Pistol
[defence: 30] [damage: 30]
Spy with Watch
[defence: 40] [damage: 0] [special: Cannot be attacked directly until revealed]
Sniper with Kukri
[defence: 40] [damage: 30]
Heavy with Shotgun
[defence: 100] [damage: 40]
Soldier with Shotgun
[defence: 90] [damage: 40]
Demoman with Grenade Launcher
[defence: 80] [damage: 70]
Engineer with Dispenser
[defence: 50] [damage: 10] [special: team bonus of +5 defence to all team members]
Pyro with Flare Gun
[defence: 60] [damage: 20] [special: reveals spies]


Play Cards

Ubercharge
[Medic card; Medic & one team member are invincible for an entire round. Can only be used once every 4 rounds]
Force of Nature
[Scout card; doubles scout damage]
Backstab
[Spy card; remove one opponent team member from the table for the round. Can only be used once every 2 rounds; Spy is revealed in process]
Headshot
[Sniper card; remove one opponent team member from the table for the round. Can only be used once every 2 rounds; defence halved]
Sasha
[Heavy card; doubles heavy damage]
Rocket Launcher
[Soldier card; does 3 times 30 damage; can only be used once every 2 rounds]
Crit Rawket
[Soldier card; can only be used once; does 100 damage]
Sticky Trap
[Demoman card; remove one opponent team member/sentry from the table for a round; 30 damage to one other opponent team member; can only be used once and then put back into the deck]
Level 1 Sentry Gun
[Engineer card; player forgoes his/her turn for the round to place sentry; defence: 150; opponents cannot attack any other team members until this card is removed from play]
Level 2 Sentry Gun
[Engineer card; player forgoes his/her turn for the round to place sentry; defence: 200; opponents cannot attack any other team members until this card is removed from play]
Flamethrower
[Pyro card; remove 2 opponent team members from the table at the end of the round or remove opponent Spy card from play for two rounds]
Scout Rush
[Requires 2 team scouts; Capture point from opposing team regardless of their defence/points]
Rage Quit
[Remove one opponent team's card from the game altogether. The opponent team may not draw a replacement card from the team deck]
Lost on the Map
[Player misses a turn]
Lag
[Must be used immediately; remove one team member of your own from the table for one round]


*note: points will still need to be added to the play cards.