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View Full Version : KiD GamePlay Remake (A Nicholas Nel Game)



EyeBall
04-02-2012, 09:25 PM
hi I am sory, no more nicholas nel here

T_Kill3r
04-02-2012, 11:20 PM
maybe you should compare it to something you yourself can do and at the same scale


You do realise you're competing with other developers, and not your customers or members of this forum, right?

Also, can you link some more (or better) screenshots? I really can't get any indication of what the game is like from the one that you linked.

Flangenimblick
05-02-2012, 12:59 AM
Ok, downloaded it and gave it a shot and this is my honest opinion, typed out as I was playing the game.

Note: I am not trying to be a bastard or trying to hurt your feelings. I am giving you an honest assessment on this game. I don't expect it to be the best, and quite frankly I have a soft spot for b-grade games, so I won't be comparing this to Call of Duty or anything. I'm going through this as if it's a game I wanted to play and I'm giving my honest opinion on it.


Firstly, I should mention, your game is NOT worth $10. You might get a better response if you lower the price.


As for the game itself:


Pros:

The "Shout" character is pretty cool.
The character creation screen is interesting and different.
The LOAD screen at the beginning is hard to work out initially, but I do like the idea of the coloured circles as save points for your game.



Cons:

The grammar and spelling in this game is atrocious. You should really get someone to edit it for you.
Labels on everything get in the way. For example, you don't need to label the carpet and the floor, I know it's a carpet and I know I'm standing on the floor. I don't need the mouse to point it out everytime I scroll over it.
Controls are difficult to figure out and don't always make sense.
Sound issues (I have no sound at all).
Graphic issues (e.g. the pistol and kevlar clothing are pink for some reason).
The large character screen in the top right-hand corner is too big and gets in the way of everything else and is distracting.
The character models are awful. They look like blocky pigs for the most part.
GUI is rudimentary and somewhat silly. The icons to represent different things, such as a blue circle for passive mode, a green blocky thing for a backpack etc, look like they were done in MS Paint. And once the GPS is picked up, and entire left quarter of your screen is dominated by a messy map.
Camera occasionally spazzes out and sometimes the character gets stuck as the camera spazzes.
My character never gets shoes for some reason.
I have NO IDEA what my characters reason for existence is. Shout tells you to go speak to someone, apparently something to do with the Game World, but why should I care? Why can I kill people and get away with it? Why are there people walking around with Vader helmets and guns? In short, what is the story? You can't just pop it into a txt file and let everyone figure it out. At least get shout to say more about why you're there.
The AI characters walk into walls or corners of places and get stuck completely.
Sometimes I can't work out if I'm shooting at anyone. My sound isn't working so I have to rely on the strange red lines that explode from a persons back when I think I'm shooting at them.
There's no indication from the cursor when I can pick something up or not, so I usually just guess I can. But sometimes the items are so small, it's difficult to tell if I've picked them up or not.
Combat is frustrating and clumsy. You die too quickly and too easily as well.



Overall, I'm not impressed. 2/10 at best.

It has some minor interesting elements, but overall it lacks in far too many areas. The graphics are outdated and buggy to say the least, not to mention the art style for the most part is just plain ugly. The controls make me want to punch my pc, and I have no idea what is going on for the most part. I haven't been this confused by a game since Evolva.


My honest opinion is that you should leave these games be. Keep them as demo's on your site, but don't charge people for them as they simply are not sellable. Move on to a new program and a new development. I know you put effort into these, but, I'm sorry to say, they're simply not good enough to compete in today's gaming market.


Again, I'm not saying this to hurt your feelings, but if you want to succeed you should pay attention to what people here are telling you, instead of getting upset at our opinions and critiques. I know it's hard, but try hear what we're saying. Of course, not everyone will agree with my opinion of this game, but that's why you should hear as many opinions as possible, so you can get a better understanding of what improvements you need to make or new directions you could go in.

I hope you get something good from the opinions here. I really do.

EyeBall
05-02-2012, 01:49 AM
hi I am sory, no more nicholas nel here

T_Kill3r
05-02-2012, 08:10 AM
Okay, I'm pretty sure we're being trolled.

Flangenimblick
05-02-2012, 10:55 AM
posted a hour after I opened the thread?? come on, I dont think your being at all fair and it sounds like your graphics card might be cheap since there are no graphics bugs. also, your a really crap critic!

Trust me, and hour was more time than your game deserved.

I have an ASUS G73S - it's one of the most powerful gaming laptops out there, so no, it's your game that's incompatible with my system, not the other way around.

I was being as balanced as I could be. Perhaps I was a little harsh in what I said, but I wanted to be 100% honest with you so you could improve yourself and your games, even if that meant being harsh. You asked us to be realistic, and I was. I took the game as it came and didn't compare it to anything in general, and those are the critiques I felt needed to be listed.

I'm genuinely trying to help you out here, but if you can't handle that then please continue living in your delusion and I'll take my opinions where they're wanted and needed.




Okay, I'm pretty sure we're being trolled.

I really hope so. If it is a troll, then 10/10 for effort by creating the game and site to troll us with!

xyber
05-02-2012, 11:34 AM
I looked at the video and there are some interresting gameplay elements, like the fact that you can ineract with everything and how you could put on that mask after you killed the guy. Sadly the art style did not scream out to me to play the game. Remember that many people look at the screenshots and videos before they decide to try a demo and could be put off from the agme by those alone, except if there is some kinda really interesting game mechanic.

If you are not getting sales, well, then make the games free and move on, but before you do you could try give your games more exposure by releasing them on portals like Desura and Indie City (there are others, but those are the ones of used recently). If your game was playable in a browser you could also try and release it on those portals where you get a cut from advertisements (like kongregate), but I don't think the money you can make from them is that much.

At the end you can't force people to buy a game they don't like. I made one of my games, Battlemass (http://www.desura.com/games/battlemass), free to play after it was getting too few sales. I know what could be changed to make the game "Sellable" but it would take too long to implement, or longer than I am willing to spend on the game. So I take it as a learning experience and won't make the same mistakes in the new game.

01DT!m3r
05-02-2012, 05:42 PM
Look at this:http://www.nag.co.za/forums/showthread.php?18040-Cube-World-%28TBD%29
Then look at your game.

"Q: How many persons are working on this game?
A: Just me. I started this as a small hobby project in June 2011."



Also "- Dual Core 1.6 ghz, 512 MB GFX with GLSL support.
- Windows.
- 128 MB Drive space Excluding Installer File."

for that? Honestly either you're using a **** engine or you're **** at programming games.nuff said.

EyeBall
05-02-2012, 10:58 PM
hi I am sory, no more nicholas nel here

GeometriX
05-02-2012, 11:13 PM
Why are you on these forums? For praise or for feedback?

VoXoV
05-02-2012, 11:33 PM
I would be embarassed with an asus! Nvidia "the way its meant to be Played"

Um, the Asus G73SW uses an nVidia GTX460M (http://www.asus.com/Notebooks/Gaming_Powerhouse/G73SW/#specifications).

Flangenimblick
06-02-2012, 12:22 AM
Im sory, but Im not going to respond to people just looking for **** with me, all I can say is that if you truly know what went into making that game you should at least show respect! and I did say compare me to yourself, this is because the authors of those elite games would not insult me.

Also, I run a dual core 1.6 ghz with 1 gig ddr2 ram and geforce 520 with 1 gig ddr3 ram and its perfect, also, I would be embarassed with an asus! Nvidia "the way its meant to be Played"

the screen capture uses alot of resources so yes the you tube vid is slow


guys, I can show you games form the 90s with real screenshots, thats not an advancement, you see it when everything is animated, dont you know the difference?


http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/131/351/eb6.jpg?1307463786


Yeah, I'm done with you. You're just a whiny fool who can't take criticism or accept when people are genuinely trying to help you.

I showed you more respect and courtesy than you clearly deserve and you have shown none to me or anyone else on this forum.

Please, go ahead, ignore us. Go try sell your game and shout at people when they don't like it or offer you feedback THAT YOU ASKED FOR!!!!


Of course we're not going to know how much effort you put into it, we're not you! But that's beside the point. If you want us to bite our tongue and slap your back and say "Great game Nicholas. Must be the best thing I've ever played! Not a single thing wrong with it Here's $10!" then you are sorely mistaken. And just because it runs fine on your pc (THE PC THAT CREATED IT) doesn't mean it will run well on others!

Also, finally, as VoXoV pointed out, I have an nVidia card in this machine YOU ASS!!


I'm done here.

EyeBall
06-02-2012, 08:15 AM
hi I am sory, no more nicholas nel here

dislekcia
07-02-2012, 01:16 AM
Eyeball, your games are bad. I don't know if I count as an elite developer in your twisted little world, but I'm pretty damn sure that every elite developer I've met would tell you the same thing: You're wasting your time trying to earn money with your current games.

They are bad for the following reasons:
1. Your graphics are poor. Your models are incredibly low poly (and if they're not, they look like they are, which is even worse) and your texturing is really ugly. I would suggest you research lighting in games and really focus on being a better texture artist - simply throwing a map onto a model is not good enough. Research 3D graphics as well - some of your character hair models z-fight with the character's head mesh, that's just amateur.
2. Your controls and interface are terrible. I'm stunned that in 1 year and 7 months of "development", you've never done a single usability test.
3. Your writing is bad. The story in KiD makes no sense. The premise in your Bone games is horrendous and the grammar is bad. If you're not a good writer, don't work in story-heavy genres like RPGs.
4. Your attitude is ****. You're expecting praise and respect based on how much time you wasted. If you'd flip that around and focus on learning what you could do better, stopped trying to sell useless work and actually bothered to respond to people with a million times more wisdom and courtesy than you, maybe in another year and 7 months you'd be less of an *******.

Eat some humble pie or go away. Further abusive comments will get you banned. Every single person here has tried to give you advice to help you make better games in the future instead of waste your time trying to sell the **** you have now.

dislekcia
07-02-2012, 01:20 AM
If you are not getting sales, well, then make the games free and move on, but before you do you could try give your games more exposure by releasing them on portals like Desura and Indie City (there are others, but those are the ones of used recently). If your game was playable in a browser you could also try and release it on those portals where you get a cut from advertisements (like kongregate), but I don't think the money you can make from them is that much.

I'm sorry Xyber, but I really don't see the point of suggesting Eyeball waste more time bothering people at Desura and Indie City - even if those have no vetting process (and I'm pretty sure Scott over at Desura wanted a curated list of games when I met him last year) - it's a completely useless endeavor. Eyeball has shown that he can't handle any form of criticism or comments because he's so caught up on how much time he's spent instead of if he produced anything actually good or not.

This is not someone that should be encouraged to try and interact with more people. That's how stabbings happen.

Zaratustra
07-02-2012, 02:08 AM
Yes, it is a very nice game and I can see that you have put a lot of effort into it.

The crux of the matter is that amount of effort doesn't matter. A game needs something to make people want to play that game, and it needs something to make people play that game instead of another game. Without that, it doesn't matter if you spend 5 days or 5 years on it.

xyber
07-02-2012, 08:27 AM
I'm sorry Xyber, but I really don't see the point of suggesting Eyeball waste more time bothering people at Desura and Indie City - even if those have no vetting process (and I'm pretty sure Scott over at Desura wanted a curated list of games when I met him last year) - it's a completely useless endeavor. Eyeball has shown that he can't handle any form of criticism or comments because he's so caught up on how much time he's spent instead of if he produced anything actually good or not.

This is not someone that should be encouraged to try and interact with more people. That's how stabbings happen.

Was basing my comment on the video alone and don't know just how bad the gameplay is. Also just trying to point out that there are other places he could try selling than just his site... ya know.. trying to be helpful here and teach and advice rather than just criticise.

dislekcia
07-02-2012, 01:52 PM
Was basing my comment on the video alone and don't know just how bad the gameplay is. Also just trying to point out that there are other places he could try selling than just his site... ya know.. trying to be helpful here and teach and advice rather than just criticise.

I think that's rather disingenuous: Everyone who's responded to EyeBall has been trying to be as nice as possible, despite his history. Yes, his games are getting criticism, but every time that's been coupled with constructive comments. I don't think it's fair to imply that people are just ripping on the dude for no reason.

Part of teaching is setting out structured goals for someone to aim for, so do you really believe that selling practice and marketing exposure is as important as graphical style and gameplay? Is there not some sort of order to those skills?

helloserve
07-02-2012, 02:24 PM
There's no real point in trying to sell something that probably wont, even if you believe it might. That is what this forum is all about. if I can't get fellow gamers and game developers to like my game, there's probably no real potential out in the world either.

KalMaverick
07-02-2012, 04:55 PM
posted a hour after I opened the thread?? come on, I dont think your being at all fair and it sounds like your graphics card might be cheap since there are no graphics bugs. also, your a really crap critic!

I don't mean any offence but there is no ways I would try your game or encourage anyone else too for that matter. You have an absolutely disgusting attitude, especially towards someone who in my opinion gave very good feedback.

From a 800+ word reply with feedback you tell the person they're a "really crap critic".


Im sory, but Im not going to respond to people just looking for **** with me, all I can say is that if you truly know what went into making that game you should at least show respect!

Just another example of your bad attitude. If a person has constipation and takes a day to take a crap doesn't mean it's special.

Learn to accept criticism and be thankful people are wasting their time for you.

helloserve
07-02-2012, 05:25 PM
If a person has constipation and takes a day to take a crap doesn't mean it's special.

LOL! Contextual Analogy Win!

nukehead
07-02-2012, 05:30 PM
If a person has constipation and takes a day to take a crap doesn't mean it's special.



Just to continue the analogy it would feel special to the person who was suffering. A lot of effort and learning should have come from the experience but anybody else who has distance and perspective from the 'project' will see it for what it truly is.

xyber
08-02-2012, 01:57 PM
I think that's rather disingenuous: Everyone who's responded to EyeBall has been trying to be as nice as possible, despite his history. Yes, his games are getting criticism, but every time that's been coupled with constructive comments. I don't think it's fair to imply that people are just ripping on the dude for no reason.

Part of teaching is setting out structured goals for someone to aim for, so do you really believe that selling practice and marketing exposure is as important as graphical style and gameplay? Is there not some sort of order to those skills?

I did not imply anything

@Nicholas if you're still reading this thread.
Since your art is not very pretty you might consider focusing on the writing and coding and getting some nicer models from sources like http://opengameart.org/ and others. Another trick is to do something very stylistic, like using only flat colours or going for hand drawn look, etc; but next time you need to be involved with some kind of community from the start. Post screenshots as you progress so that people can comment in time and give you ideas on how the work could be improved if needed.

BlackShipsFillt
08-02-2012, 09:02 PM
I get the feeling Nicholas was being disingenuous when he asked for advice or feedback. He's openly stated that he doesn't actually use these forums. I figure he's just here to punt his game and try get a few sales.

Zoop
10-02-2012, 01:13 PM
Nicholas Nel has been here for years. He's never been able to take constructive criticism. Many, many years ago he wrote this.


TO ALL OF YOU ::: DON't **** ON MY THREAD, NONE OF YOU HAVE HELPED ME IN THE LEAST, I HAVE NO AND THATS NO RESPECT FOR PAGE ****TERS, GROW THE **** UP, **** YOURSELF IN THE ARS AND IM SURE YOU WILL ENJOY IT

THANKS FOR BEING SO ****ING USELESS.

GO **** YOURSELVS, GROW THE **** UP, OH AND GROW THE **** UP.

TO THE EDITORS OF THIS FORUM< I HAVE NEVER BEFORE IN MY LIFE DELT WITH SUCH A BUNCH OF IMMATURE **** SMELLING ****ING PIECES OF FORUM ****TING ****.

OH AND TELL YOUR MOTHER LAST NIGHT WAS GREAT ;)

GO **** YOURSELVS, OH AND GROW UP.

NO RESPECT HERE.

GO **** YOURSELF IN THE HOL MOFFIE **** PIECE OF ****.

THESE FORUMS HELP NO-ONE, AND ARE INTENDED FOR KIDDIES WHO LIKE GAMEY-WAYMEYS

**** YOURSELF HARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And he's been coming back every few months ever since, and then getting panned for having **** games and then ragequitting again, promising to never come back.

Honestly, I'm surprised he hasn't been banned yet. He even blatantly advertises in other people's threads.

Flangenimblick
10-02-2012, 01:29 PM
Strange thing is, in this thread (http://www.nag.co.za/forums/showthread.php?15287-KiD-1.1-Released-(Full-game-for-FREE)) he seemed to be quite agreeable for the most part. Obviously he didn't actually take the advice, but at least he wasn't abusive.

Then I read his other posts and wonder wtf happened? It's like he suddenly went insane! Some of his posts are complete gibberish. Maybe he should be banned, but I find him quite amusing for the most part. His reactions to every little thing make for many lulz :p

Azimuth
10-02-2012, 01:59 PM
I can't stop laughing, seriously.

dislekcia
10-02-2012, 02:48 PM
Nicholas Nel has been here for years. He's never been able to take constructive criticism. Many, many years ago he wrote this.

And he's been coming back every few months ever since, and then getting panned for having **** games and then ragequitting again, promising to never come back.

Honestly, I'm surprised he hasn't been banned yet. He even blatantly advertises in other people's threads.

Yeah, dude is not 100% ok. That doesn't mean we should treat him poorly. It's not like anyone is actually harmed by an internet diatribe if it does happen - and if it doesn't, then everybody gets a chance to learn something.

I think it's a credit to the sorts of people who regularly hang out in Game.Dev that they were willing to give even someone as trollish as Nicholas Nel yet another chance to be a nice human being. I find it incredibly sad that all it took was one immature and unfair decision by someone with power to totally invalidate not only all the effort everyone went to, but also result in the threads being much harder to learn from by other forumites now, seeing as nobody can see what people are responding to.

Don't even get me started on lulz...

GeometriX
10-02-2012, 02:55 PM
You can use my name, Dis, it won't make me cry :P

BlackShipsFillt
10-02-2012, 03:20 PM
Huh? Did something get deleted in the past? Or all of Nicholas's text get replaced with "herper derp"? Or is it that thread title thing? (it took quite a while until he noticed it had been changed).

Yeah, I get the feeling that Nicholas burned too many bridges at once in that one insane tirade. On the other hand he was met with constructive criticism when he returned, which was more than he deserved, and then he tossed that aside anyway.

GeometriX
10-02-2012, 03:26 PM
He changed his own posts in retaliation for my trolling* - changing his thread title.

To be fair, I only trolled once he seemed to be past the point of no return. He was being abusive and was wasting everyone's time at that stage. It's a pity that he did edit his own posts, but I'm not really sure what use those posts of his would've been anyway.

*Actually, I suspect it was to cover his own dirty tracks if ever he were to "take action" against me for "hacking his account".

xyber
10-02-2012, 03:40 PM
*Actually, I suspect it was to cover his own dirty tracks if ever he were to "take action" against me for "hacking his account".

I still lol at the one-click hacking ^.^

dislekcia
10-02-2012, 04:24 PM
He changed his own posts in retaliation for my trolling* - changing his thread title.

To be fair, I only trolled once he seemed to be past the point of no return. He was being abusive and was wasting everyone's time at that stage. It's a pity that he did edit his own posts, but I'm not really sure what use those posts of his would've been anyway.

*Actually, I suspect it was to cover his own dirty tracks if ever he were to "take action" against me for "hacking his account".

The closest Nel got to being abusive before your title edit was him being derp about graphics cards and performance at one guy. You considered it wasting people's time - people didn't seem to mind responding to him. Like I said in PM: It was the most activity this forum has seen for a while, that's not a bad thing.

His posts provided context for everyone's responses: Reading the responses on their own now is pretty useless, you can't even find the URL for the game they're talking about.

I really wonder why you consider this such an ok thing. There is no way you'd have let me ever get away with ****ing with a user the same way in one of the other forums.

KalMaverick
10-02-2012, 04:39 PM
Guys this thread is for Game.Dev (I think).

If you want to go off topic leave it for the PMs or I'll have to close this thread...

Oh crap I'm not the moderators here :P

Zoop
10-02-2012, 04:46 PM
Yeah, dude is not 100% ok. That doesn't mean we should treat him poorly. It's not like anyone is actually harmed by an internet diatribe if it does happen - and if it doesn't, then everybody gets a chance to learn something.



The thing is, people were giving him a chance. Flange was really nice, even though he totally panned the game, and that's how Nicholas responds? Add what's worse, it happens every single time he comes to these forums. People give constructive criticism and he ****s his pants.

SkinkLizzard
10-02-2012, 06:09 PM
The thing is, people were giving him a chance. Flange was really nice, even though he totally panned the game, and that's how Nicholas responds? Add what's worse, it happens every single time he comes to these forums. People give constructive criticism and he ****s his pants.

yea totally and here
I thougth the whole point of forums is to be able to give your own oppinion, WITHOUT SOMEONE ****ING THEIR PANTS ABOUT IT!

Zoop
10-02-2012, 06:11 PM
Old meme is still win!

HIGH FIVE!

BlackShipsFillt
10-02-2012, 07:34 PM
I thougth the whole point of forums is to be able to give your own oppinion, WITHOUT SOMEONE ****ING THEIR PANTS ABOUT IT!

Yeah it goes both ways though, I mean, Nicholas should be allowed to be an ass without being attacked (and to be fair the forum only really became hostile towards him after a Jesus-dose of tolerance, and to be fair I got fairly hostile myself). In a perfect world we would not have pushed him to the point where he felt we was under assault and had to pack up and leave.

At the same time I have no sympathy for him. He dismissed my 500+ word response with a single arrogant specious sentence. He contributes no worth here and falls so far outside the redeemable room-for-error that I doubt anyone of any merit could even use his experience as a cautionary tale.

Still, he shouldn't have to flee. Noone should have to flee unless they are actually trolling, and, despite his perfect troll form, Nicholas wasn't actually trolling.

But then again it was kind of impossible to engage with him without being infuriated.

Flangenimblick
10-02-2012, 10:36 PM
Yeah it goes both ways though, I mean, Nicholas should be allowed to be an ass without being attacked (and to be fair the forum only really became hostile towards him after a Jesus-dose of tolerance, and to be fair I got fairly hostile myself). In a perfect world we would not have pushed him to the point where he felt we was under assault and had to pack up and leave.

At the same time I have no sympathy for him. He dismissed my 500+ word response with a single arrogant specious sentence. He contributes no worth here and falls so far outside the redeemable room-for-error that I doubt anyone of any merit could even use his experience as a cautionary tale.

Still, he shouldn't have to flee. Noone should have to flee unless they are actually trolling, and, despite his perfect troll form, Nicholas wasn't actually trolling.

But then again it was kind of impossible to engage with him without being infuriated.


I agree with you in some ways, and I really wanted to help the guy (still do, if he'd calm down and apologised I would totally try help him even now), but sometimes people are just dicks. Sometimes you can't help them, even when you want to, and it's best to cut your losses and move on.

He's made his position clear, as have we, no point straining yourself on how to help him if he doesn't want to be helped. I did snap at him, but I stand by everything I've said. If he apologises, so will I, but I honestly could care less. I'm only interested in helping those who help themselves.

In my opinion, we should lock this thread and move on. But I do like the altruism I've seen in his threads from the forumites here, makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside ;) (not being sarcastic, I mean that, for all your ****, you guys are great).

BlackShipsFillt
10-02-2012, 11:05 PM
I second the "you guys are great, group hug with rainbows" vibe! and also the "maybe this thread should be locked" vibe.

dislekcia
11-02-2012, 03:48 AM
The thing is, people were giving him a chance. Flange was really nice, even though he totally panned the game, and that's how Nicholas responds? Add what's worse, it happens every single time he comes to these forums. People give constructive criticism and he ****s his pants.

He wasn't ****ting his pants due to crits this time... Sure, he was kinda ignoring the crits, but it's still better than last time. Should we not give people chances instead?

KalMaverick
11-02-2012, 10:38 AM
He wasn't ****ting his pants due to crits this time... Sure, he was kinda ignoring the crits, but it's still better than last time. Should we not give people chances instead?

He told the one guy he's a crap critic and that the others were ****ting on his thread (I can't remember exactly).

Don't recall anyone saying his games are crap and that he must bugger off.


Should we not give people chances instead?

Uh huh, because no-one gave him a chance or two or three.

BlackShipsFillt
11-02-2012, 12:47 PM
Don't recall anyone saying his games are crap and that he must bugger off.

Well, post him leaving... or pretending to leave or whatever he's done... people have called his games crap. Actually, now that I look through the thread you yourself (KalMaverick) made an analogy with taking a crap and him making his games. And other people made similar analogies or gave unconstructive criticism after a point.

Also, changing his thread title from "Nicholas Nel needs suggestions" through to "Nicholas Nel needs psychological help", or whatever it was, is telling him to bugger off by any stretch of the imagination.

All Dislekcia is saying is that we should be better than that. And I agree.

I didn't behave myself as well as I should have and in future I plan to do better... or just say nothing when I've got nothing constructive to say. Very quickly his threads went from sincerely trying to help him to trying to force him to see things our way through bullying tactics. In hindsight I think we should have rather said nothing after a certain point.

nukehead
11-02-2012, 12:59 PM
It may have degraded into a bullying thread. Sure. However he made it abundantly clear that if you didn't like his game that you were being a **** regardless of the feedback. Self fulfilling prophecy and all that. Blackships and Flanges critiques alone should have sufficed and were pretty constructive yet he refused to even acknowledge them based on a superficial 'You couldn't do better'.

I don't think that the forumites are to blame in this case. He only wanted to punt his game and receive praise. He didn't want constructive critique and we couldn't praise his efforts. That is the tale.

KalMaverick
11-02-2012, 01:00 PM
Well, post him leaving... or pretending to leave or whatever he's done... people have called his games crap. Actually, now that I look through the thread you yourself (KalMaverick) made an analogy with taking a crap and him making his games. And other people made similar analogies or gave unconstructive criticism after a point.

Also, changing his thread title from "Nicholas Nel needs suggestions" through to "Nicholas Nel needs psychological help", or whatever it was, is telling him to bugger off by any stretch of the imagination.

All Dislekcia is saying is that we should be better than that. And I agree.

I didn't behave myself as well as I should have and in future I plan to do better... or just say nothing when I've got nothing constructive to say. Very quickly his threads went from sincerely trying to help him to trying to force him to see things our way through bullying tactics. In hindsight I think we should have rather said nothing after a certain point.

Um, read what I said again it has nothing to do with his games.

If you want to use the very same logic:

You can polish a turd all you like, but you still end up with a piece of crap.

Not a very nice comment if you don't try and understand what he is trying to say.


In hindsight I think we should have rather said nothing after a certain point.

Possibly, but last time I checked this is still a forum right?

Zoop
11-02-2012, 01:28 PM
All Dislekcia is saying is that we should be better than that.


I'm sorry, but I've been a member on these forums for quite some time, and Dislekcia is the last person who should talk about courtesy on these forums.

dislekcia
11-02-2012, 01:56 PM
I don't think anyone was harsh to Nel until Geo edited his thread title and he shat his pants. The reason Nel exploded is pretty friggin obvious, it was definitely not in response to how he was being treated by Game.Dev regs... Hence my point: It's cool that people were being so nice to him and it sucks that that was nuked in a selfish instant by one dude.

I don't think anyone should be trying to justify that Nel was going to explode anyway and thus this sort of thing was inevitable - his continued non-explosion up until that point was very different to how he normally behaved. That's all I think BlackShips and I are trying to say.


I'm sorry, but I've been a member on these forums for quite some time, and Dislekcia is the last person who should talk about courtesy on these forums.

Really? May I ask why you think that?

Zoop
11-02-2012, 02:04 PM
Mostly because in Miktar's days you were one of the biggest dicks here.

dislekcia
11-02-2012, 02:10 PM
Mostly because in Miktar's days you were one of the biggest dicks here.

And people can't learn from the past in any way, right? ;) (Leaving aside that that's simply your perception of my fossilised posts)

Zoop
11-02-2012, 02:21 PM
Fossilized posts? From just slightly more than a year ago?

Either way, bad impressions last. Having lurked around here since mid-2008, if Miktar were to return I'd give you a month, maybe two, and you'd be up to your old antics again.

Either way, this isn't really a thread to discuss my perceptions of moderators past or present, so I'll leave it at that. I haven't exactly handled myself properly in either of the threads I posted in in the game.dev forum, so I'll show myself out.

BlackShipsFillt
11-02-2012, 03:47 PM
If you want to use the very same logic: You can polish a turd all you like, but you still end up with a piece of crap. (from Dislekcia)

I never suggested that Dislekcia's insinuation that Nel's games were turds was a helpful approach.


Possibly, but last time I checked this is still a forum right?

But obviously the quality of the forum is dependent on the quality of the responses. Unconstructive criticism, insults and flame wars don't help anyone. That doesn't stop you from writing them, but that's not the point.

I'd like for everyone to take away from this something, and maybe be able to do better next time, to keep their cools or at take longer before chasing away antisocial posters... regardless of how big a jerk they are or how arrogant they are about their games...

Instead of internet high-fiving each other about flinging witty insults at the people they've chased away.

But maybe that's asking too much from this forumity. :(

KalMaverick
11-02-2012, 03:57 PM
But obviously the quality of the forum is dependent on the quality of the responses. Unconstructive criticism, insults and flame wars don't help anyone. That doesn't stop you from writing them, but that's not the point.

I'd like for everyone to take away from this something, and maybe be able to do better next time, to keep their cools or at take longer before chasing away antisocial posters... regardless of how big a jerk they are or how arrogant they are about their games...

Instead of internet high-fiving each other about flinging witty insults at the people they've chased away.

Indeed.

Although just to be clear, no-one here chased him away. Geo changed his thread title, he got ****ed, he rage-quitted.

None of us chased him away did we?


Instead of internet high-fiving each other about flinging witty insults at the people they've chased away.

Thank goodness that's not us, right? Because I don't recall seeing that anywhere.


But maybe that's asking too much from this forumity. :(

Really what are you on about?

BlackShipsFillt
11-02-2012, 04:14 PM
Thank goodness that's not us, right? Because I don't recall seeing that anywhere.

That kind of was us:
I thougth the whole point of forums is to be able to give your own oppinion, WITHOUT SOMEONE ****ING THEIR PANTS ABOUT IT!

Old meme is still win!
HIGH FIVE!

From Nicholas's perspective that's an insult... Nicholas being the guy ****ting his pants... followed by an internet high-five. That's not the spirit of the conversation perhaps, I'm sure SkinkLizzard and Zoop didn't mean it maliciously, but none-the-less it was happening at Nicholas's expense.

Just to reiterate I don't think I behaved well here either. I believe I failed Nicholas, and even though there probably was no way I could have actually helped him, I think I could have failed less hard.

KalMaverick
11-02-2012, 04:25 PM
From Nicholas's perspective that's an insult... Nicholas being the guy ****ting his pants... followed by an internet high-five. That's not the spirit of the conversation perhaps, I'm sure SkinkLizzard and Zoop didn't mean it maliciously, but none-the-less it was happening at Nicholas's expense.

Was this not after he already left?

Listen I get what you're saying and I agree but you're nitpicking at silly things now, this is still a forum and there will always be joking and tomfoolery.

If people were to feel insulted and throw fits every time something doesn't go their way then I don't know...

Zoop
11-02-2012, 04:40 PM
Skinklizzard's post was a very, very old forum meme, hence why I responded to it the way I did.

Either way, I don't see any of us being in the wrong here. Nicholas has a reputation for being an ass here, people try to help him every time, and the situation ends the same every, single, time. People were being exceedingly nice to him, despite past differences, and he responded the same way he always does. Only then did people respond in kind. People aren't going to just fade into the woodwork when someone starts slinging insults, especially not if they actually spent a fair amount of time and effort trying to help him.

I honestly don't see the issue with that. Nicholas should just be happy I'm not overly bored, because I've seen him on numerous other forums and I could very well go reveal what an asshat he is there.

SkinkLizzard
11-02-2012, 05:22 PM
heh ok in hind sight I guess my post could be seen as being at nics expense. Was really aimed at those ****ting their pants about him '****ting his pants' which is what the original poster of the line, that became a meme, did.
Of course I'm guilty of forgetting that tone doesn't carry over to text very well.

dislekcia
13-02-2012, 04:54 PM
Right. This has gone on long enough.