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Fengol
21-01-2009, 08:03 AM
With the Wow Factor of the Game.Dev stand at rAge 2008 still burning in my mind I've been thinking about this year's event and I was inspired by SpaceHack and Ultimate Quest so much that I want to have my game demo'd and played this year.

Beyond the bi-monthly competitions I've been working on a remake, or fan service, of Chromehounds and I want to get to the point where it's playable at rAge like the Dream.Build.Play entries were.

I've spoken to Dislekcia and he's excited to see what games can be put on the stand for the public to sit down and play and he say he's also looking for speakers to talk about aspects of game development.

I know it's still a while before rAge 2009 but who else has been excited by last year's event and wants to put something up? (I know Cairnswm is)

And besides that, what topics and people do we want to see on stage?

AndrewJ
21-01-2009, 09:11 AM
Have you currently got a working/compiling version of Chromehounds Fengol?

I didn't attend rAge last year.

Are we allowed to put, say, Iji up there as a good example of an indie game, or do you mean just our games?

Maybe topics in the vein of A Few Things to Know Before You Get Started With Making Your Own Game, maybe some tech articles like Good Ways to Obfuscate Your Code/Keep Your Code Readable for the Rest of the Team, Best Practices for Savegames (what info must be included, good ways to make getting such info easy and quick, encrypting the savegame, storing a hash inside the file itself - am I too paranoid here? Please note that I am coming from a PC background here, not a console background.) Shaders/particles/other graphic tricks.

Fallen
21-01-2009, 09:15 AM
Yeah, last year was really unexpected and awesome. If there are a couple more games and speakers on show this year it would mean that people would start taking the game.dev community more seriously. And it would just make it so much more fun this year!

Fengol
21-01-2009, 11:59 AM
@AndrewJ, I mean your own game; do you have game that you're working on that you'd like to demo at rAge? You'd have to apply some serious polish to make it worthwhile.

Why would you want to obfuscate your code? That said, would you be interested on talking about it?

We normally that the regular crowd of: Dislekcia, Coolhand, Nandrew, Aequitas and myself talking about game development. Anyone else keen to step up to the plate?

edg3
21-01-2009, 01:56 PM
Well, pending the announcement of Dream Build Play I will either have an entry or just a game for showing at the very least. Also on computer there will be the game that the team I am part of is entering into ImagineCup.

We really need to decide before hand what is going to be demo'd on which pc/xbox and keep it static throughout the event for consistency, and then we also need to have th winning entries from the competitions leading up to rAge on the pc's, it was a bit pointless bringing an xbox and a pc last year to not really have too much direction for what should be put up. (I did get a copy of all the games for all the competition, but there is way too much to choose from :P so it ends up just sitting there...)

Another thing that drew some attention that still isnt much part of the Game.Dev image is modding. While we all have spoken about it at various stages, there were various people that were interested in modding that came by our stand to see if we knew anything about it. So essentially we should take a look at areas we sort of talk about but have no depth in.

As for talks, the post mortem talks on the Dream Build Play entries were definitely worth it, so we should have a live talk through of the development of the games again this year. I would love to have a talking slot dedicated to myself, but I lack the topic to talk about and have zero charisma (and bad stage nerves), but I think we need more people talking about things so that it doesnt seem like we have only a few people contributing (ie. more different speakers will be assosciated with larger community).

Code Off please? :P I can do much much much better then when I was at rAge last year with my c# and xna, so thats something I personally am looking forward to, but maybe we can take it a step further, and call Saturday or Sunday the "Code Off Day" so that basically normal talks happen, and in between talks people can waffle around to see what we are doing in the code off, and we could have a broader topic, like a mini Game.Dev competition with a limitation to the game play, and see how that goes?

I no longer have my trusty phone with all the notes I made (it broke) but I will return to wreak havoc with things as I remember them. :P

FuzzYspo0N
21-01-2009, 02:12 PM
Anyone else keen to step up to the plate?

Theres always keen people

Azimuth
21-01-2009, 02:59 PM
Chippit and I will have a new game to show. The rest of you had better get your ph34r on.

dislekcia
21-01-2009, 03:53 PM
Chippit and I will have a new game to show. The rest of you had better get your ph34r on.

Oh, we'll see all about that ;)

Azimuth
21-01-2009, 03:56 PM
Oh.

We will.

We.

Will.

Fengol
21-01-2009, 04:47 PM
Code Off please? :P I can do much much much better then when I was at rAge last year with my c# and xna, so thats something I personally am looking forward to

Maybe not a Code Off but I like the idea of a devLAN at rAge. It would have to be on the quieter Sunday cause I know all the regular members will be helping out in the stand or handing out flyers so they wouldn't be able to participate any other time.

AndrewJ
21-01-2009, 05:12 PM
I haven't used obfuscate tools yet. The reason I asked was to try and include at least ONE layer of security in games that are released and the people don't want to use DRM, as well as brain storming for some ideas for talks that might be useful.

Flyers, manning teh st4n|)Z0R, eating chocolate, drinking grape Slush Puppies and being a babe-magnet etc, please let me know how I can help.

LOL@Azimuth and dislekcia! Brilliant! *Hunched over mad scientist rubbing his hands laughing maniacally* Oh, wait, look at your avatar Azimuth...

dislekcia
21-01-2009, 05:53 PM
I haven't used obfuscate tools yet. The reason I asked was to try and include at least ONE layer of security in games that are released and the people don't want to use DRM, as well as brain storming for some ideas for talks that might be useful.

Flyers, manning teh st4n|)Z0R, eating chocolate, drinking grape Slush Puppies and being a babe-magnet etc, please let me know how I can help.

LOL@Azimuth and dislekcia! Brilliant! *Hunched over mad scientist rubbing his hands laughing maniacally* Oh, wait, look at your avatar Azimuth...

Hmmm. That gives me an idea for a possible presentation:

Don't waste your time with...
-DRM and piracy
-Top notch graphics effects
-Optimisation navelgazing
-Finding the perfect resources

Basically talk about how each of those (and more) are simply a waste of time... DRM issues come from a lack of understanding your market. If you're worrying about piracy, it means you're trying to sell to pirates. Not too good an idea, either switch platforms (and target market) or change your monetisation strategy, rather than wasting your time with DRM/obfuscation. The only place obfuscation makes sense is in the mobile space where you want your games to be smaller - often obfuscated Java bytecode is a lot smaller, so I hear.

Fengol
21-01-2009, 07:15 PM
You know, I am too much of a nice guy. I was also thinking of a talk on "Not implementing security" but I know AndrewJ as a caring soul so I dropped it and let it pass. D, you're just a bastard.

dislekcia
21-01-2009, 10:18 PM
You know, I am too much of a nice guy. I was also thinking of a talk on "Not implementing security" but I know AndrewJ as a caring soul so I dropped it and let it pass. D, you're just a bastard.

Hah. Clearly ;)

I was just thinking that there are a lot of misconceptions that people spend ages on when they really don't need to. That type of info would make a good talk, not necessarily to poke fun at people. I mean, I respect what everyone's up to on here. Obviously.

P.S. I see what you did thar...

AndrewJ
22-01-2009, 09:25 AM
Thanks D.

Awww... I love you too Fengol!

Aequitas
23-01-2009, 01:02 AM
I comment badly ... and that is more than enough obfuscation ..... trust me

dislekcia
23-01-2009, 12:00 PM
I comment badly ... and that is more than enough obfuscation ..... trust me

This is so true.

Imagine being dumped into a mile of code by a breakpoint with no friendly little //'s to tell you what the crap is going on :(

Except for one that says:
//D, finish the damn collision system. K?

FuzzYspo0N
23-01-2009, 01:01 PM
lol sounds like the engine im wrking in at the moment : im busy trying to debug some issue and i find the following in code ;



// OMG l33t hax
extendWheels(true);

i have a sneaky suspician it was coolhand, but its not the worst iv seen in this code :>


often obfuscated Java bytecode is a lot smaller, so I hear.
True.

The obfuscation renames variables from supercoolvariableaname to a , or b... and makes massive tables of all names and tracks things that way, essentially making the final bytecode a hell of a lot smaller.it also making it near maniacal to reverse engineer, as remapping guess work never helps in post build situtations.

And i agree with dis on the no topic topics.

BlackShipsFillt
23-01-2009, 01:35 PM
Stupid question: when is rAge? October? Joburg? I'm also keen to check it out this year, I should have some fun little stuff to show by then...

SA game development is getting exciting, would love to see what everyone else has been working on.

Fallen
23-01-2009, 03:12 PM
Maybe you should start a voting poll, a couple of weeks before rAge with all local games ... where we can enter our titles and vote for other entries ... and then game.dev should show like the best 10 local games of 2009 at their stand? And people can then talk about their games and how they did the effects ... etc etc.

Would be nice to see what the other guys are doing ... and voting for the best games in SA?

dislekcia
23-01-2009, 04:05 PM
Stupid question: when is rAge? October? Joburg? I'm also keen to check it out this year, I should have some fun little stuff to show by then...

SA game development is getting exciting, would love to see what everyone else has been working on.

rAge is usually at the end of September/beginning of October every year. I'm sure the exact dates will be on http://www.rageexpo.co.za come April.


Maybe you should start a voting poll, a couple of weeks before rAge with all local games ... where we can enter our titles and vote for other entries ... and then game.dev should show like the best 10 local games of 2009 at their stand? And people can then talk about their games and how they did the effects ... etc etc.

Would be nice to see what the other guys are doing ... and voting for the best games in SA?

Last year we simply let anyone that wanted to demo something have screen time inbetween the scheduled talks. We only had one or two demos by creators, the rest of the time we filled with UQ and SpaceHack. I was rather disappointed with the lack of stuff to put on the screen, TBH. I'm not sure if we need to do specific selections to decide which games to show, any would be good ;)

FuzzYspo0N
23-01-2009, 04:42 PM
i agree with dis, specific selections might simply breed resent :D

What i saw/felt : perhaps people didnt know they could submit stuff (tho granted dis was super busy last year around that time) there was no real feeling of "im gonna bring my games, and show them off" ... the UQ/spacehack fest was cool, but it must be noted across to all people its open game (as you say dis)..

Plus you got the local studios representing, which was awesome.

Fengol
23-01-2009, 05:20 PM
Hence I've started this thread; to make people aware and let them start that all important polishing

FuzzYspo0N
25-01-2009, 12:35 PM
Agreed.iv got a couple games on the way too

Fallen
26-01-2009, 12:58 PM
Ok, that will be great then!

Last year kind of surprized me ... being new to the whole game.dev. I knew a couple of game developers in Durban ... but a booth at rAge specific to local game development ... *jaw dropped*. So would be awesome to look at the local games and maybe submit one this year!

Gazza_N
26-01-2009, 01:04 PM
I'm not sure if we need to do specific selections to decide which games to show, any would be good ;)

This is a good idea. People just aren't sure whether their game/s is/are worth showing on the Big Screen(tm). This was my problem last year - none of my stuff really measured up to UQ and Spacehack. ^^;

cairnswm
04-02-2009, 07:45 AM
This is a good idea. People just aren't sure whether their game/s is/are worth showing on the Big Screen(tm). This was my problem last year - none of my stuff really measured up to UQ and Spacehack. ^^;

I think its important that people put up the games they make anyway. If a new dame dever walks in the door, sees UQ and says I cant do that and walkks out - we dont gain anything - if he walks in and sees CairnsWMs minesweeper he will think - I can do that and become interested.

Karuji
08-02-2009, 11:47 PM
I had a very bad sorta in work version of PQ. Which is more then likely going to be redone. Again.

And if the pattern continues rAge will be the 2nd-4th October this year.