View Full Version : What do you use to dev games?
ghost
15-01-2008, 11:21 AM
Hi
I want to know what do you guys use to develop your games (Game Maker? Lite or pro? any body here created their own engine?). I'm interested in starting, however I'm not sure where to begin.
ShadowMaster
15-01-2008, 11:36 AM
Well I use C++ and the Popcap framework to make my game(s).
I'd suggest to try simpler languages(for instance Python or Game Maker Script) before you even think of using C++, since there is a lot of things in C++ that, although useful, are hard to use and do so correctly.
Although I haven't used game maker, from what I gather, it is a nice way to jump into game dev without having to do a line of code and as your games get more complex you can start using the builtin language in Game Maker to make the game do what you want.
As for making an engine from scratch, no I haven't and I suggest you the same as it is much easier to take an existing engine and add in what you need or modify it to do what you want. That and it will allow you to get to work on your game sooner, which is a lot more fun.
Since game dev is as much about the journey as the destination.
Gazza_N
15-01-2008, 11:50 AM
Game Maker FTW. It's safe to say that the majority of games developed here were done using GM, and the wide variety of game types is testament to GM's flexibility. Best of all, you need very little technical knowledge to use it, as all the finicky technical details are dealt with under the hood, leaving you with nothing to worry about but the game logic. Whether you create that using the drag 'n' drop interface or by scripting (recommended, because it gives you more flexibility) is up to you.
Jeez... I sound like a marketing rep. 0_o
Tr00jg
15-01-2008, 12:15 PM
Game Maker all the way here...
ghost
15-01-2008, 12:30 PM
Lite or Pro?
Tr00jg
15-01-2008, 12:37 PM
Lite or Pro?
Pro. Its cheap and you get neat features. :D
ghost
15-01-2008, 12:39 PM
Great. Thanks for the advice. I'll play around with GM a bit.
Gazza_N
15-01-2008, 12:40 PM
Lite is the free version, and is perfectly functional, but most of the really awesome features are crippled. Pro you buy, but it's the fully functional version. It all comes down to whether you're willing to pay or not.
EDIT: Pwnd by Tr00jg... :(
BlackHawk
15-01-2008, 02:15 PM
XNA and Game Studio Express (in Visual C# 2005 Express, Visual Studio 2005 is a bit expensive). XNA is a framework, so I'm using an engine developed by someone else. I've modified the engine extensively in my research of how stuff gets done in games, so some of it is hardly recognizable anymore. XNA 2.0 and GSE 2.0 has been released recently. Everything is free, of course.
FuzzYspo0N
15-01-2008, 02:41 PM
I use c++ , VB.net or c# depending on what im doing. if im making a game thats innovative i might bash out a test subject into GM for a test...but will MOST of the time use c++ & irrlicht3d. If not irrlicht it will be XNA or the lesser spotted, online games. php,html,js etcetc/
GM is a winner tho
mavix
15-01-2008, 04:24 PM
I'm currently learning Managed Directx in C#. I would have used Directx in C++, but I could really figure it out. Once I've gained some knowledge, I'm going to start working on a game engine, which I will then use for a game.
ShadowMaster
15-01-2008, 04:44 PM
I'm currently learning Managed Directx in C#. I would have used Directx in C++, but I could really figure it out. Once I've gained some knowledge, I'm going to start working on a game engine, which I will then use for a game.
mavix, unless your goal is to make a game engine for fun or otherwise, I'd suggest against your plans.
If your goal is to make a game it is much easier to take an existing engine and modify it to suit your needs. That and it is much more fun to make and test a game than an game engine.
Cyberninja
15-01-2008, 05:32 PM
Game Maker
Photoshop
Icon maker
Notepad
|-|1Pp13
15-01-2008, 05:55 PM
Game Maker
Notepad
Image editor for icons that comes with Delphi
Game Maker
Ive tried many other languages and engines, but they just dont gel with me.
mavix
15-01-2008, 07:37 PM
mavix, unless your goal is to make a game engine for fun or otherwise, I'd suggest against your plans.
If your goal is to make a game it is much easier to take an existing engine and modify it to suit your needs. That and it is much more fun to make and test a game than an game engine.
I see what you are saying, but I'd like to start from scratch, because not only will I have full control over the game and game engine, and I think it would be a great way to learn Managed Directx.
F1ak3r
15-01-2008, 09:52 PM
Like most people, I use Game Maker. I tried Adventure Game Studio once, but it didn't agree with me. I'm also fiddling with the Wintermute engine at the moment (thanks to Thaumaturge in that Ossum Quest topic).
UntouchableOne
15-01-2008, 09:54 PM
Delphi
VB
Photoshop
Fruityloops studio
...and anything else I can use to get the result I want.
DrDeth
15-01-2008, 10:16 PM
C# & XNA here...
dislekcia
16-01-2008, 02:00 AM
I mostly work in GM. I haven't found anything that beats it for speed and ease of getting a concept out there...
I've written my own engines in: C#, VB.Net (both DX9), C# & XNA on 360, C++, Pascal, Logo and even one really strange engine in Haskell. I remember mode 13h.
I've worked in pretty much every language I can find... There's very little point listing them. I'm learning Flash for a mobile game at the moment, that'd be my newest one. I've tried out pretty much every framework and API I could. I've worked on PC, Xbox, PS2 and PSP (although the console stuff was mostly piggybacking on Coolhand's utter pwnage).
...
And I still love working in GM :)
-D
dislekcia
16-01-2008, 02:07 AM
And all you guys are so wise! *sniff* So proud :)
There's one simple question you need to ask yourself when you start getting into game development: What do you want to do? If you want to make games, then make games, use tools. If you want to program engines, then start right from scratch and program the very, very basics before going 3d. If you want to work on graphics, start with the basics of graphics, sprites and animation, then move to 3d and texturing, find someone else to make the graphics move.
It all depends on where you want to go.
-D
ghost
16-01-2008, 06:59 AM
I want to develop games at the moment, then in one or two years if I enjoy it I'd like to start with my own engine.
I installed GM at home yesterday and well I don't like the license, especially the part where you are not allowed to release the source of your game (makes sense that Yo Yo games does it like that I just don't like it) which is what I was planning on doing (I believe that open source is the future of software, oh and I don't care if you don't agree this is not the place to discuss this so no flaming) so basically my requirements have changed (although I will still play around with GM to see if I am any good at this game developer stuff)
I am now looking for an Open Source engine @FuzzYspo0N is Irrlicht any good? Any other open source engines worth a shot?
cairnswm
16-01-2008, 08:00 AM
Game Maker is a Free tool. Games made in the light version can be shared as .EXE or as .GMK files without restriction.
If you want open source Game Maker is not what you want. Game Maker is FREE software not open source software. The source code for Game Maker is not available (therefore not open source). The game maker source files may be shared as much as you like.
Thaumaturge
16-01-2008, 08:24 AM
At the moment I'm using C++, OpenGL and the Fox GUI toolkit (http://www.fox-toolkit.org/) (a GUI toolkit that also offers a string class and an event system that I'm rather fond of).
I intend on moving on to OGRE (http://www.ogre3d.org/) in the near future, however, and quite probably ODE (http://www.ode.org/).
I have in the past used game authoring toolkits of one sort or another; years ago I used to use Klick & Play (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klik#History_of_Click), and later The Games Factory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Games_Factory). I've also used a few adventure-game specific engines (AGS (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/) and the Wintermute Engine (http://dead-code.org/home/) being two of my favourites, the latter in particular), which I am rather inclined to use when creating games that I feel are reasonably compatible with them.
Coolhand
16-01-2008, 09:37 AM
although the console stuff was mostly piggybacking on Coolhand's utter pwnage
-D
Please man. Stop selling yourself short!
dislekcia
16-01-2008, 12:23 PM
I want to develop games at the moment, then in one or two years if I enjoy it I'd like to start with my own engine.
I installed GM at home yesterday and well I don't like the license, especially the part where you are not allowed to release the source of your game (makes sense that Yo Yo games does it like that I just don't like it) which is what I was planning on doing (I believe that open source is the future of software, oh and I don't care if you don't agree this is not the place to discuss this so no flaming) so basically my requirements have changed (although I will still play around with GM to see if I am any good at this game developer stuff)
I am now looking for an Open Source engine @FuzzYspo0N is Irrlicht any good? Any other open source engines worth a shot?
I think you've got a misconception around which source you're allowed to release... The source of your game in GM, the gmk file, is perfectly fine to release. But, you're not allowed to release the source of the GM program itself, which is rather arb because you don't get given that source unless you've done some special deal with Overmars/YoYo Games.
Game Maker is a Free tool. Games made in the light version can be shared as .EXE or as .GMK files without restriction.
If you want open source Game Maker is not what you want. Game Maker is FREE software not open source software. The source code for Game Maker is not available (therefore not open source). The game maker source files may be shared as much as you like.
Well said :)
-D
ShadowMaster
16-01-2008, 03:18 PM
I am now looking for an Open Source engine @FuzzYspo0N is Irrlicht any good? Any other open source engines worth a shot?
I'd suggest against C++ (since Irrlicht is a C++ library) at the moment, since it is not easy to learn as your first language. First learn another language and get the hang of programming, this is where GM is nice as you can progressively step into programming, and then learn C++, believe me, it is much easier that way.
But if you disregard me and want to learn C++ first(I knew wanted to learn C++ first), I'd gladly help you. ;)
My first bit of advice will be to leave off programming games till you get the hang of programming console apps and all the advanced features of C++. That way when you start programming games the hardest part will be learning the library(relatively easy then) and, as in every language, programming the game logic.
Check this thread for my post on the Popcap Framework: Game Engines (http://forums.tidemedia.co.za/nag/showthread.php?t=2786)
It's a nice engine to use for 2D games.
dislekcia
16-01-2008, 04:21 PM
ShadowMaster: Have you played with the SexyAppFramework's recording capabilities? I really like how they did that, makes playtesting and getting feedback really, really easy ;)
-D
FuzzYspo0N
16-01-2008, 04:22 PM
(since Irrlicht is a C++ library) at the moment
incorrect,
python lua vb.net c#.net java are all available. maybe not as current but its not c++ only.
To me, if you dont wanna learn a language just because "it could be difficult" wtf are u doing trying make games? Supoose thats why the tools like GM exist, is for the beginners, but i dont think you should stay a beginner :) (not bashing anyone or GM fans)
:)
ShadowMaster
16-01-2008, 04:39 PM
ShadowMaster: Have you played with the SexyAppFramework's recording capabilities? I really like how they did that, makes playtesting and getting feedback really, really easy ;)
-D
Nope, I should try that once. It should make testing easier. But the thing I like most is the widget system, since you will have to code a similar system in most engines anyway.
incorrect,
python lua vb.net c#.net java are all available. maybe not as current but its not c++ only.
Sorry did not know about Irrlicht being available in so many languages.
To me, if you dont wanna learn a language just because "it could be difficult" wtf are u doing trying make games? Supoose thats why the tools like GM exist, is for the beginners, but i dont think you should stay a beginner :) (not bashing anyone or GM fans)
:)
FuzzYspo0N, I just suggested he start with something simpler language than C++ since it has a lot of difficult concepts(when first learning them at least). Like pointers and templates, which are used in most(if not all) game engines.
|-|1Pp13
16-01-2008, 05:09 PM
(since Irrlicht is a C++ library) at the moment
ive got a GM version somewhere
Nandrew
17-01-2008, 12:46 AM
My word, seriously? I'd like to see *that*.
dislekcia
17-01-2008, 01:57 AM
My word, seriously? I'd like to see *that*.
It's just a DLL that opens a new window that it renders in. You essentially set up a scenegraph using DLL calls and then update positions and tell it to render every step. Not a big deal.
-D
cairnswm
17-01-2008, 07:56 AM
It's just a DLL that opens a new window that it renders in. You essentially set up a scenegraph using DLL calls and then update positions and tell it to render every step. Not a big deal.
-D
So its exactly what Nandrew did for Line Wars anyway :P
:)
FuzzYspo0N
17-01-2008, 08:22 AM
lol, still cool none the less
ghost
17-01-2008, 08:58 AM
I'd suggest against C++ (since Irrlicht is a C++ library)
I should have given more details, I'm sorry my oversight. I know how to program (Java, VB6) I studied it at university I have no practical experience since I went to Mozambique straight after varsity for a once in a life time adventure.
I'm not daunted by programming concepts and learning new syntax.
Thanks for all the help on this forum I see I still have a lot of research to do but for the moment I'll play around with GM to see if I enjoy all the whole game making process.
cairnswm
17-01-2008, 10:34 AM
"The best language to write games in is the language you know best"
If you know Java and VB then writer games in them! Get some of the earlier devmag articles on Mobile game dev and make your java skills work for you in the mobile games environment!
FuzzYspo0N
17-01-2008, 11:06 AM
i agree,
also there is a simplistic but cool visual basic six 3d engine called revolution3d
http://www.revolution3d.net/cms/index.php
i used to use it, its real cool at time. i got some examples too if u want
ShadowMaster
17-01-2008, 02:37 PM
I should have given more details, I'm sorry my oversight. I know how to program (Java, VB6) I studied it at university I have no practical experience since I went to Mozambique straight after varsity for a once in a life time adventure.
I'm not daunted by programming concepts and learning new syntax.
Thanks for all the help on this forum I see I still have a lot of research to do but for the moment I'll play around with GM to see if I enjoy all the whole game making process.
Ok I see.
dislekcia
17-01-2008, 03:58 PM
So its exactly what Nandrew did for Line Wars anyway :P
:)
Not really, Nandrew was using GM's primitive drawing functions. Yeah, you could supply vertex data to the Irrlicht DLL every frame, but most people simply tell the DLL to load a bunch of models and go from there.
-D
Nandrew
18-01-2008, 02:21 PM
So its exactly what Nandrew should have done for Line Wars anyway :P
Corrected. :P
I think those primitive functions must have cost me the framerate somewhere along the line (no pun intended).
01DT!m3r
19-01-2008, 02:37 PM
GM all the way . Although i would love to get my hands on a copy of XNA but my internet cap is to small:(
|-|1Pp13
19-01-2008, 02:48 PM
oh yes i forgot the most important:
MS calculator =P
Tr00jg
19-01-2008, 04:54 PM
oh yes i forgot the most important:
MS calculator =P
Indeed! :D
ghost
22-01-2008, 03:05 PM
MS Calculator?
Are you guys being serious, I've made a few GM games so far (nothing big, some really really small things) and I have not uses calc yet?
|-|1Pp13
22-01-2008, 03:22 PM
just quick example
Timing
30 steps*180 seconds (im lazy what can i say =P)
dislekcia
22-01-2008, 03:41 PM
Calc pwns :)
I use it a hell of a lot.
-D
Thaumaturge
24-01-2008, 01:50 AM
Perhaps ironically, I keep a calculator near my computer (an item from either school or university, as I recall), which I use for most such calculations. :P
(I find that it's actually more convenient than using a computer-based calculator - it doesn't get in the way of already-present windows, can be viewed without alt-tabbing, is accessible when the computer is off, and can be picked up and taken elsewhere.)
FuzzYspo0N
24-01-2008, 08:30 AM
i dont dev games "elsewhere", so it helps when its on my pc. my microwave wont accept commands :( printf("cook faster you bastard");
:)
xyber
24-01-2008, 09:26 AM
I use the Torque Game Engine and Torque Game Engine Advanced.
C/C++ to make modifications to the engines where needed and TorqueScript for game logic.
dislekcia
24-01-2008, 03:08 PM
Perhaps ironically, I keep a calculator near my computer (an item from either school or university, as I recall), which I use for most such calculations. :P
(I find that it's actually more convenient than using a computer-based calculator - it doesn't get in the way of already-present windows, can be viewed without alt-tabbing, is accessible when the computer is off, and can be picked up and taken elsewhere.)
Fair enough, I've also got a hardcopy calculator lying around here somewhere, but it stubbornly refuses to copy-paste results to my PC. I'm not typing an 18 digit decimal value and hoping for any degree of accuracy, especially not when there are hundreds of them...
Hey, there's a great idea: A bluetooth calculator that can copy/paste values from/to a paired computer. I'd use that.
-D
infinitely_blue
24-01-2008, 03:16 PM
I used DB Pro and C++. In C++ I bought a licence for the Torque Engine Advanced although I am still trying to work out what half the code does tbh :D
Oh, I also have Leadwerks' engine which is very cool if you have 3d World Studio.
I must give GM a try though, tbh I havent even looked through its capabilities yet but some of the games I have seen here look awesome.
Thaumaturge
25-01-2008, 04:34 AM
Fair enough, I've also got a hardcopy calculator lying around here somewhere, but it stubbornly refuses to copy-paste results to my PC. I'm not typing an 18 digit decimal value and hoping for any degree of accuracy, especially not when there are hundreds of them...
Aah yes, that is a good point. ^^;
Thankfully I don't think that I've had reason to do that, yet.
Hey, there's a great idea: A bluetooth calculator that can copy/paste values from/to a paired computer. I'd use that.
Ooh, that is a good idea - I wonder how difficult it is to create a Bluetooth device...?
dislekcia
25-01-2008, 05:14 AM
Aah yes, that is a good point. ^^;
Thankfully I don't think that I've had reason to do that, yet.
Molecular visualisation, bonding angles, non-penetration code and relaxation solvers... At least it all works now ;)
-D
P.S. Go ahead and make that calculator!
Thaumaturge
25-01-2008, 06:08 AM
Heh, ironically my Honours project involved molecular visualisation. :P
However, I don't think that anything that I or my partner worked on covered that sort of nastiness - we were primarily interested in representations of molecules and graphical aids to visualisation. ^^;
*adds "Bluetooth" to his list of things to do*
Not that I'm much of a hardware person, but it's probably worth looking into, at least. :P
FuzzYspo0N
25-01-2008, 08:40 AM
lol, make a j2me app, thats way easier. that way u can manage the pairing as normal, which could copy values. i could whip up a graphical one with the framework in netbeans, release it with source and u guys can add whatever functionality?
J2mee is made of small versions of win
dislekcia
25-01-2008, 04:20 PM
Heh, ironically my Honours project involved molecular visualisation. :P
However, I don't think that anything that I or my partner worked on covered that sort of nastiness - we were primarily interested in representations of molecules and graphical aids to visualisation. ^^;
Ooh, I'd like to see that. What did you do? I've been working on this for a while now... It's pretty much done, all dynamic (yes, that's a realtime simulated buckyball), etc. Designed to kick the **** out of those horrid physical models they sell at universities.
http://www.gamedotdev.co.za/files/Molecules_sequence1.gif
lol, make a j2me app, thats way easier. that way u can manage the pairing as normal, which could copy values. i could whip up a graphical one with the framework in netbeans, release it with source and u guys can add whatever functionality?
J2mee is made of small versions of win
You mean a mobile phone calculator that does all the bluetooth stuff? That'd be cool, although I've never liked how you have to select your operators on phones. If you could fix that it'd be an awesome piece of software :)
-D
Chippit
25-01-2008, 04:31 PM
Molecules Screenshots appeared!
A rare species! Grab it, quick!
Squid
25-01-2008, 06:03 PM
Molecules is very cool. Also Command Calc (http://www.squidcor.co.za/CommandCalc.zip) ftw.
Thaumaturge
26-01-2008, 05:49 AM
I've been working on this for a while now... It's pretty much done, all dynamic (yes, that's a realtime simulated buckyball), etc.
Ooh, wow!
That looks much more impressive that what I and my partner created!
Ooh, I'd like to see that. What did you do?
The specific subject was the visualisation of carbohydrates (proteins, I believe, having been rather well-covered by contrast), with the aim of enhancing the presentation of their important features (I think that the main features were ring location, orientation and conformation (if I am using the last word correctly), and overall shape of the molecule).
We also looked at the effectiveness of a few rendering tricks: silhouette outlines, "technical lighting" (essentially a two-light system, using one warm and one cool light), texture map overlay and an overlay of a traditional "ball-and-stick" view of the molecule.
I produced one of the visualisation algorithms (called PaperChain), and developed part of the program in which we implemented all of this, which we named "CarboHydra".
(My project partner produced the other visualisation, Twister, and developed the remainder of the program.)
If you want more detail, just ask - I don't want to make this post too long without being asked - I've done enough of that for tonight. ;P
(To my annoyance the relevant UCT CS archive seems to be down, but it looks as though there are copies of the two versions of the paper elsewhere online - if you wish, I should be able to provide a link or two. ^_^
I'm not sure, however, that there's still a working version of CarboHydra available online... I think that I might have a copy, but I also think that it's an incomplete version... T-T
Ironically, it probably doesn't help that the name starts just as does "carbohydrate", resulting in plenty of hits about carbohydrates when searching for it. ^^; )
UntouchableOne
27-01-2008, 07:50 PM
An awesome mobile/portable calculator that does almost everything you need it to do on the move. http://www.getjar.com/products/6371/Calc
Bonezmann
30-01-2008, 04:42 PM
I use Torque(Or at least I'm trying to), scripting is harder than I thought, but I am making notes. It's the only way to learn :)
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