General-Purpose bragging topic!

[Lujo]

It's not necessarily Orc but getting your damage up and not relying on your mana pool as much. Mage Plate still works because -% damage does nothing to Pissorff, allthough it's kinda better to start out with the ball and find IT in the shop, because it helps you ding, and keeps your damage high until the right moment. Flames are hardly necessary. Orc Sorcerers and especially Orc Bloodmages can both level and unload Pissorff spam.(Wizards with the ball are obviously good Pisorff guys, but noone goes really nuts with that thing quite like a bloodmage does. You can get your damage up really early, get your health/b2p cost low at lvl1, never push anything into blackspace and spam. The only reason you can't lvl1 ding is because you refuel by munching on popcorn).

And, nope, 2X damage fireballs with max burning from fireball one is actually the best against retaliate fireball, bar nothing in almost any circumstance no contest, not close. Especially paired with EM where your mana pool size becomes irrelevant. It takes very little in terms of general spellcasting optimization (a loaded fire heart is good though), what you need is a platemail or some resists to further lower the already halved damage you're taking from retaliation (elven boots help with that, and so do GG beads and obv. protections). Codex EM clears Cursed Oasis like nothing else (really, it's like you're not playing the same game), and Codex wizard with Extra Glyphs can easily find Wonnafyt to take care of the Matron. Sorcerers already > Elves for everything but making your life more difficult, and heal a bit when casting stuff, and if you're a goblin you convert for full heal.

Technicaly, Pissorff Bloodmage, Goblin Sorcerer and Codex/EM Halflings are what I consider "standard spellcasters", if you're putting effort into either replenishing your mana or incresing your mana pool as a spellcaster (or indeed at all), you're being a hipster. XD Essentially, if you're mana pool size isn't "solved" from tile 1 (in the sense that you know the exact number and are sure it's guaranteed and 0 effort will be put in and everything that happens to put it over that is just 'cause) you're probably overdoing it ^^

And also, I'm not sure there's another item which once you locker it changes the game as much as Avatar's Codex. It turns otherwise difficult dungeons into lol-stomps and supremely unsynergistic PQI's (a surprising number of them) into lol-stomps. Codex/EM is like an expansion pack for the game all on it's own.

[Tinker]

[Astral]

Hehe, I agree with you on Gnome Sorcerers
Though I guess Lujo meant optimal not in maximal output, but rather in effect/effort ratio.

Anyways if someone asked me about optimal spellcasters (not necessarily pure ones) my list would be:
Orc Wiz of Binlor, Gnome Sorc of MA, Gnome BM of JJ and Elf Assassin of TT. And as honorable mentions Elf Fighter of TT, Elf Codex Monk of EM, Gnome MW Monk of EM.

[Lujo]

Yeah, sorry about that, spent most of my sorta new two posts in the playthrough diary thread apologizing for my oft-stupid word chices and poor impulse control. And throwing the word optimization around without mentioning assassins is also silly, because if we're talking spellcasting cheeze, that's basically the pinnacle of it.

But I figured out that it's possible that I developed the "don't go nuts with mana pools" mentality because I somehow value blackspace more than the average person and find that if I'm gonna have a larger than average mana pool I need it from tile one to spend blackspace refilling it while still exploring. Which is probably unnecessary. It also keeps my glyphs and conversion fodder around and gives me flexibility with many resources, and I'mma experiment on this playthrough with approaches I'm not traditionally inclined to

Allready have, in fact, the Elf Rogue turned out wonderful, and I even have plans to take it to serious dungeons. It also gives me an excuse to prep TT

[Tinker]

[Tinker]

[Astral]

Yeah there's no problem with the Elf Wizard of MA's damage output, it's better than decent, just not optimal. The reason I excluded it is because I find the Orc Wiz to be a better generalist and the EWJ beats it in fireballing. JJ can give 200% refills as well and the JJ to MA conversion works flawlessly. The other way around it's quite hard. In terms of items all you need is a bearmace, CP mongering is optional.
Btw I wouldn't touch Flames with a Wizard early, the cut back on popcorn munching is very severe for an Elf, kills your flexibility if you don't have Pisorf, and isn't that impactful if you only pick it up late. At least a Gnome has several manapotions to capitalize on it.

Picking the recommended god for Assassin was hard, the gods you mentioned also work very well.

Isn't there a disparity between Elves and MA when it comes to Fighters? You can't take full advantage of your bonus or Refreshment, Flames isn't very good for multi ding approaches, which leaves Magic and Mystic Balance as the only no downside boons.

You're quite right about Goatpersons being able to become kickass spellcasters, I excluded them for being unreliable.
Though sometimes, as little as finding a B2P is enough.

[Tinker]

[caviar]

[Lujo]

Swapping to TT post EM in regular runs with a f**kload of plants in the level means boatloads of free piety from dodging their hits, and a map cleared of plants (might need a ~~Burn Salve~~ later though ).