Fighter is underwhelming

[Lujo]

Well, since the vets can give you assurances that the fighter is indeed strong, the current distribution of points in his ability tree is creating a dream, and illusion, a lie, a trick and probably is best counteracted in this way ^^ And we also might get to hear the gun-sounds-change story for a millionth time...

Still doesn't do much about the misleading scouting thing, but hey, at least noone feels cheated if it comes as a tack on to something with actual substance.

[Dwarf Wizard]

[Lujo]

You might get to see it, and we might get to see it in a context where we can all agree it actually fully applicable It's a little joke, I hope noone takes it the wrong way. And not at your expense, just a friendly

[Sidestepper]

[Lujo]

They changed the thief too, and what you describe ARE those rules The initial classes have to be simple, that's the thing, and not confuse the newbies too much. My thesis about that is not that it doesn't make sense but that in the case of the fighter it's confusing because he's not a fighter really, and the scouting is quite a bit misleading, and about the priest is that he's actually the fighter and that having a few indulgences on him as a class feature would've done worlds of good (maybe, I've got con's on that one, just not as convincing to me). But everything's got it's pro's and cons.

And don't look at me about wizard I'm still convinced they overloaded that one

[Sidestepper]

The Fighter probably would have been better off named as the Adventurer, but it's just not that big of a deal. I remember being confused the first few times because I thought the Fighter would have more hit points and damage than the other classes, but I eventually learned that what you see on the class summary is what you get.

I don't really agree with you about the Priest. The "cleric" row of classes have a perfectly fine theme, probably the most cogent of the four sets. They all deal with soaking damage and recovery. It's not the theme that you would have chosen, but that's no one's problem but your own :p.

[Lujo]

Eh, it's not really personal at all, or rather I don't see it that way. It might be cultural except I don't really see why it'd be specific. The first association with the word Priest, is, well, worship of gods (Fighter is fighting, thief is thievery, wizard is wizardry). I'm pretty sure (and maybe I'm really entirely subjective and blind on this ) that people expect that the fellow is going to have something at least to do with them. It's certanly a letdown when he doesn't, I've been asked about this by people IRL: Them - am I missing something, how is Priest related to gods? Me - he isn't. Them - what, no mechanical ties? Me - Nope. Them - Why did they call him the Priest then? Me - honest shrug. That's probably the only consistent spoken word conversation thread about DD I've had with all the people I know that tried playing it, the status of the priest as an actuall priest, apart from the undead bashing bonus is mistifying. It's like, everbody had their oppinions on various stuff, pro, contra, details, art, flavour, mechanics, experiences, dungeon runs but the only thing that was puzzling to everybody was - how come the priest has 0 to do with gods (ussually followed by - and if he has nothing to do with gods who does?)

I never was pointing it out as a personal gripe. And I know why, from the unlock perspective he doesn't have anything to do with gods mechanicaly. But having a single indulgence tacked onto an ability there to clue people in on the existance of gods and the special status, the priest, someone who is defined by worship of gods, has with them. IDK, thought it would be harmless and since the experience of my community was 100% consistent and reasonable to me I supposed this was universal.

EDIT: It's a presentation thing! That's it! Another sound-of-a-gun thing! People don't notice that the priest is a mele tank first, people notice that he is in no way particularly suitable to worship of gods (GG especially) and is called a Priest. Only then they look at him carefully, and then what they have before their eyes is a melle tank who isn't any more or less predesposed for worship and conclude that that is in fact - a fighter! It doesn't help that they might've wondered what's fightery about the fighter first

[Sidestepper]

[Lujo]

[Sidestepper]

Sure, I'll pit my Cajun blackened catfish against whatever concoction you have in mind.

To the death, of course.