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[Tinker]

Ok. No JJ scenario: So you have 13 max Mana, +50% damage bonus, and converted all other glyphs (500 cp, +12 base damage). You cast BYSSEPS three times for +3 base damage and +90% damage bonus. You regain your mana and drink Strength and Quicksilver potions.

Base Damage: 5+12+3+13=33
Attack Bonus: 50%+90%=140%
So you deal 79 damage. Not significantly more than a Warlord's similarly prepped damage output.

If you can cast BYSSPES 4 times, it becomes 34 / 170%, or 91 damage, which is impressive for an L1 character, but you did burn 2 potions to get there... We had a discussion a few feeks back about the Orc Warlord of Binlor doing L1 bosskills, and Astral fleshed out the strat, that it can basically do enough damage to kill any boss on L1, SMM included.

So I don't think the Chemist is overpowered, but I definitely like the approach to this strat!

[caviar]

Bug: The leaderboards and my log screen showed different completion times for today's daily; the log said 13:36 while the leaderboard says 16:28.

On the orc chemist thing, yes, it's pretty silly. Binlor works well as an alternative to JJ (since he lets you get a free layer of might with stoneform, as well as some knockback damage). Piety generation is effortless too with double mana regen. 120% attack bonus from Might on the first hit on a high-level target without needing mana boosters - cast bysseps twice for the second hit and use GETINDARE, and you can pull off some ridiculous kills with very little effort. JJ into Binlor sounds absolutely ridiculous when you think about it. Grab two HP boosts and a mana boost to put you at 16 MP - enough to have 5 layers of might if you switch into Binlor for stoneform, as well as stoneskins to supplement the extra JJ hp.

[Lujo]

Tinker, math's wrong. it's 2 STR potions, and they give you 18 base (Full mana + 5 dmg). Bear mace for +25% more base damage. Junk in shops can net you at least one or two more CP hits.

So it's more like 195% of base (around 49ish) X 2, which is somewhere in the area of 400, and that's not counting gods.

[Tinker]

[Lujo]

^ Hmmm, well, then my math was off XD Bear Mace is a no-brainer prep on such a run, and if you're looking to do this, you'll easily squeeze at the very least 2 Orc CP pops out of shops whatever's in them (I think). And well, all that's wihtout a prepped item, too, right?

Anyway here's a buggy vid of an atypical Chemist, enjoy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xkKb6xbMk8

[Astral]

If I remember correctly ST potion gives consumed mana +1/level, just like Transmuter's SS. CP earned can vary heavily between ~600-1800 so it's completely subjective.

The Orc Chemist can reach fantastic damage for 1-2 hits in a row, but it's only good for striking and costs a lot of mana.
I think it's best compared to the Crusader, and in my experience a Crusader can reach much higher damage, so it isn't broken. Not at lvl1, but at lvl1 bosskills permanent damage is more useful.

And nope, 2 ST effects can't be stacked, it is remevod sooner than your KB as well

[Lujo]

Yeah, I just checked. Went in with JJ and a Fabulous Treasure for the buyout, only got to a bit over 200 damage for a KB blow. Looks about on par with various other glass cannons unless I'm missing something.

Well, as far as that first blow is concerned. After that you're still a huge stat bastard with every imaginable strat at your disposal.

[Darvin]

Okay, so the Chemist basically has the old BLUDTUPOWA interaction with Binlor and Mystera, turning them into piety bonanzas. His synergy with Binlor has already been discussed, and I concur that it's really good, now allow me to touch Chemist and Mystera. On the face of it, there's a dissonance here; the Chemist wants to convert glyphs early and can't use potions for an end-game spike, so on the face of it he has a dissonance with the main attraction of Mystera. However, I've found a great combo: Mystic Balance. At first glance this looks terrible, as it raises the price of his signature glyph. However, it lowers the cost on the third casting and onward. What this means is that you need only 14 max MP to be able to activate a fourth layer of might, and since Mystera is such a piety farm this allows you to hit that threshold very early for some potent spikes.

Overall, there was a reason that BLUDTUPOWA got reworked and I'm not sure the Chemist has sufficient limitations to avoid falling into the same trap. That said, his total dependence on exploration-based resources may just be enough to keep him in check.

[Tinker]

Good points Darvin! I think we are so enamoured by the flexibility of the Chemist that we don't look at the potion drawback. 10% effect versus 40% effect is a massive drawback, essentiall preventing the Chemist from any sorf of potion spike.
Other deities that might enjoy the abundance of mana are JJ and TT. I had a run with JJ and it was monster, same as with Binlor and Mystara

[Darvin]