Okay, take this!

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Re: Okay, take this!

Postby The Avatar on Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:14 pm

So... Are you going to remove the dungeon or weaken it.

If you weaken it, I suggest you make the first floor levels 1-4 and then gorgons 5, bandits 6, and so on... Also, you better weaken the boss's stats.
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Re: Okay, take this!

Postby Troggle on Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:39 pm

dislekcia wrote:Nobody was supposed to get anywhere in the tower. It's kinda a foil for the new items and classes we're going to be adding over the next few weeks.



I'm quite excited to see new classes. And if we get some new ones that regenerate from something other than exploring, we might end up with new ways to beat the tower. I feel like the alpha vampire wouldn't actually have that much trouble slaughtering everything, for example.


And I don't think the dungeon should be made any easier. Even if it can't be defeated by more than one or two classes, it's supposed to be ridiculous, and it will give me something to fail at repeatedly and keep challenging myself with.
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Re: Okay, take this!

Postby FDru on Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:05 pm

Troggle wrote:And I don't think the dungeon should be made any easier. Even if it can't be defeated by more than one or two classes, it's supposed to be ridiculous, and it will give me something to fail at repeatedly and keep challenging myself with.


But if you ask me, every dungeon should be beatable with every class. It doesn't have to be easy, it just needs to be possible (even if that means through a ridiculously specific prep/shop/god combination).

If it is not the case that every dungeon is eventually beatable by every class, I will consider the game a failure.
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Re: Okay, take this!

Postby The Avatar on Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:32 pm

Actually, the Alpha Vampire would stink in the tower, because once you hit level 10 you could not heal from level ups which would rip you apart.
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Re: Okay, take this!

Postby subanark on Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:50 pm

The tower simply needs to be buffed with respect to transmuters by reducing the number of walls per floor. After that is done, we can talk about any nerfs to make it reasonable.

I can already see the next patch notes:
Due to excessive transmuter wear and tear on the towers, the repairmen have decided to use less traditional walls for holding the tower up, namely plants.

Also, is it me or does it seem like I'm descending each floor instead of ascending. Maybe the tower is buried?
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Re: Okay, take this!

Postby The Avatar on Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:19 pm

You have a point there with the going down. Also, they need to both reduce the wall count and weaken the dungeon.
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Re: Okay, take this!

Postby dislekcia on Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:07 am

FDru wrote:But if you ask me, every dungeon should be beatable with every class. It doesn't have to be easy, it just needs to be possible (even if that means through a ridiculously specific prep/shop/god combination).

If it is not the case that every dungeon is eventually beatable by every class, I will consider the game a failure.


FDru wrote:If it is not the case that every dungeon is eventually beatable by every class, I will consider the game a failure.


FDru wrote:I will consider the game a failure.


Harsh :(

But I think I get where you're coming from.
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Re: Okay, take this!

Postby The Avatar on Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:25 am

I agree with FDru, but I still wouldn't consider the game a failure...

I mean, can anybody beat Avatar, Kinisssch, or Namtar with a monk or fighter?
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Re: Okay, take this!

Postby Darvin on Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:40 am

I mean, can anybody beat Avatar, Kinisssch, or Namtar with a monk or fighter?

Namtar would probably be doable. The others not so much. With the trisword nerf, a buff to Monks is looking very justified right now. Fighters... please buff him already? Especially in the hands of an expert, he's basically inferior to the Warlord in every conceivable way.

I don't think every level has to be beatable with every class, but it certainly should be beatable (unless it intentionally is an infinite fight-until-you-drop sort of thing).
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Re: Okay, take this!

Postby Crowdi on Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:43 am

Hi

Tbh, I don't really play DD that much but I have been following for a while.

But I thought I would chime in here because I think the discussion of "should all classes be able to beat all dungeons?" an interesting one.

If from the get go DD has established that all classes should beat all dungeons, then I can understand that a few of the players being heartbroken when this is not the case.

But from my understanding, DD has been about the difficulty of the challenge and having to "puzzle-solve" the dungeons. And maybe a reward for the hardcore players is to include dungeons that can only be beaten by one class. In that, it challenges the depth of knowledge of the hardcore player to know that a class may beat an "impossible" dungeon and to understand in-depth why only that class can beat that dungeon.

But I think in order to do that, you need to draw a massive outline around those dungeons and make the players aware that only one class can beat that dungeon. This type of "mode" could also be extended in numerous ways and perhaps even extending to a different set of challenges.

But I am going to put a massive disclaimer on the above opinion, in that I really don't play DD that much. :) You guys could have already implemented that kind of system and I wouldn't know.
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