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QCF Design Community • View topic - Locker Space!!!


Locker Space!!!

All things Desktop Dungeons

Re: Locker Space!!!

Postby fall_ark on Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:58 pm

I'm bumping this old thread since it's the latest one with "locker" in its title.

Simply said, I still do not understand the absolute or relative (39999 gold for your 8th locker! Woohoo!) limit the game puts on the lockers.

Since you only ever prepare one item from lockers, what exactly is the argument against infinite locker space (or Alweth's purchasable items solution)?

I don't want to just repeat everyone's opinion again, but here it goes: There is absolutely no "meaningful decisions" involved in locker items. High priority items and rare reward items will always stuff the locker spaces. There is one or two space that a player don't mind getting changed once in a while, and if he wants a specific item, he simply Tinker it from the shop and return - which, as Darvin said in his opening post, is a chore. Or as Dan puts it on the main site page: "You will be doing one or more dungeon runs in which you will not make one single meaningful decision."

As of now, limited locker space just discourage me from trying runs preparing non-gamechanging items. Sometimes I want to play a game with Troll Heart. Sometimes I want to start with the Mystera Scroll. Sometimes I want to start with the Corrosive Stick. But I have no incentive to actually locker them. Thus I don't do those runs. Thus my playing style and my overall gaming experience become unvaried and dull. As Darvin points out, the locker space limit "takes away from the fun and spontaneity of the game."

Sure. Some limitations along the way / when you build up your kingdom is fine. After most buildings, races, classes are unlocked though? I don't see the point.

Slightly off-topic, but if you want to make runs interesting, here's what the current PQI is lacking: it's all limitations, no incentives (apart from the quest reward money). I want certain PQI runs to have interesting small "free gifts". Like "you start with a BYSSEPS glyph", "You get a free Transmutation Scroll", "You start with two Spoons". Things like that. Especially things that are currently underused, by which I mean cheap/mediocre items. They don't even need to be free. Forcing such an item as your locker preparation (regardless if you have it lockered) in itself would be encouraging players to try out new things.

Another thing: In certain quests, it would be interesting to have an overall preparation cost cap. This gives more freedom than simply limiting preparations (although they are understandable in class challenges), and would actually force interesting decisions.
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Re: Locker Space!!!

Postby The Avatar on Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:46 pm

I agree with you; Prep caps would be a cool idea for a few quests. Also, I'm all for being able to just pay a 100 gold fee to switch items so I don't have to waste me and my tinker's time.
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Re: Locker Space!!!

Postby gjaustin on Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:57 pm

I'm fine with a limit, I just don't think that the limit is high enough. 6 was fine in the beginning when the item pool was really small.

But now with Elite items, Vicious Items, and Class Rewards there just isn't enough room.
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Re: Locker Space!!!

Postby Sidestepper on Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:17 pm

Yeah. The devs were hoping that limited locker space would require us to make engaging strategic decisions, but what it ends up doing is limit choices altogether. A profile that has only one locker space has the same level of power as one that has 1,000 locker spaces, it's just the 1,000 space profile doesn't have to jump through hoops to try alternative strategies. The locker limit means that we all stick to a handful of absolute best items and rarely experiment with specialized or marginal preps because switching them out is a pain in the ass.

I'm all for having having new lockers be much cheaper and having the locker limit being limited only by how much you're willing to sink into it. Maybe there is some cool new approach that revolves around starting with the Blue Bead, but there is no way I am ever going to try that out if it means having to do multiple Tinker runs to replace my Orb of Zot once I'm done goofing around.
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Re: Locker Space!!!

Postby Nandrew on Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:59 pm

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Re: Locker Space!!!

Postby Nandrew on Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:00 pm

But yeah, I know that lockers are a touchy subject. Sorry about that. Just popping my head in here to assure people that we do read this stuff.
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Re: Locker Space!!!

Postby Darvin on Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:31 pm

Always appreciate insights into your thought processes. Sometimes it's hard for us to see where you're coming from.

While I agree the idea of having multiple "kingdom states" is interesting, the fact is that end-game DD plays very much like the alpha with once-off dungeon runs. Progression is over and at a people just want everything unlocked so they can play in their hard-earned sandbox.

I find the locker is inconsequential at the only point it has any meaningful impact. During early kingdom expansion, you pretty much prep just the fine sword on every single dungeon run. I find that the only remotely competitive prep for early kingdoms is the platemail. Every else either drains too much gold to use (crystal ball or the brutally expensive elite items) or else is too hard to unlock prior to the end-game unless you're a batshit insane veteran like us.
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Re: Locker Space!!!

Postby Nandrew on Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:03 pm

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Re: Locker Space!!!

Postby fall_ark on Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:48 pm

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Re: Locker Space!!!

Postby Bloggorus on Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:28 am

I ranted about this also in my metagame thread. --> viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2083

There I argued that the locker was a problem because the cost of it's use was only gold and time; basically grinding.

I understand the need for players to make meaningful decisions but the locker breaks one of the most fundamental rules of modern gameplay; don't make players backtrack and don't penalise them for playing your game out of order.

Having to grind for items becasue you just had a BRILLIANT idea on how to finish such and such a quest completely saps the fun and spontentaety of the discovery, especially if the experiment doesn't work. You are training players to plan ahead and specialise, not experiment.

In a game with hundreds of class combinations, I fail to see how the locker marries with the overall development strategy.

The current paradigm of paying for replacements to your locker works fine; hell, increase it to 500 gold, or 1000 if you want. But if youve lockered somethign before and lost it, you should NOT have to methodically repeat those steps to get it again, like a robot.

We are not robots, we are PEOPLE.

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