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QCF Design Community • View topic - Any information about gods?
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Any information about gods?

PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:32 pm
by sitenuker
I think it would be a good idea to provide information on what actions gain/lose piety with deities. Looking at the wiki, a lot of the information is out of data or untested. It will always become obsolete every time you make a change anyway.
It seems we have to do a lot of un-fun in-game research (restarting many many times) before we can make an informed choice as to whether to follow a certain deity. Monster stats are visible, the exact effects of items are visible. Why so cagey about the gods?

Just to stress this point. This is not a minor issue for me. I cannot play this game with the free time I have available without access to accurate information about the gods.

Another problem with this secretive approach is we can't report bugs if we don't know how things are supposed to work.
I just got cursed by Tikki Tooki after I killed a monster without taking a single hit. It was the second monster I killed in that dungeon and I had not been hit once. Is this a bug? No idea. I don't know what Tikki Tooki punishes you for.

Re: Any information about gods?

PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:19 am
by dislekcia
As soon as you worship a god another panel gets added to your stack, it's temporary for now and looks rather horrible, but it's a log of all the god actions you've inspired.

Gods are mysterious when you first play for a reason, even once we have the nice shiny codex (think integrated wiki, kinda) in the game, we don't want to tell you about gods from the word go. You have to discover what they do through playing... Yes, this sometimes means you lose a round, but so does accidentally clicking a higher level monster. God strategies and knowledge are a sign of mastery of the game's first set of systems, we want players to feel like they're uncovering awesome new knowledge and being smart when they figure out how to use a particular god. That's what they're all about.

Plus roguelikes traditionally have unidentified item drops, the gods are our take on a non-full-knowledge system. It's just that you learn it over multiple plays instead of during one, longer, play session. Frankly, if we simply gave you everything about the gods up front, they would lose a lot of their value to the game.

Re: Any information about gods?

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:39 am
by Alweth

Re: Any information about gods?

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:18 pm
by The Avatar
I don't think if you misclick you should be saved, because that completely goes against the roguelike part of the game.

Re: Any information about gods?

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:00 pm
by Alweth

Re: Any information about gods?

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:18 pm
by The Avatar
I suppose, but DD is not supposed to be a forgiving game. If you take Dracul in the crypt it's not going to say. "Are You sure, there is a lot of Undead and he hates it when you kill them." Or the Earthmother in Ick Swamp "Warning: You are about to get so corroded you'll wish you had never tried this dungeon."

Not to be mean or to hate on your suggestion, but DD was never a forgiving game. The Alpha made sure of that.

Re: Any information about gods?

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:07 pm
by Alweth
When the UI says, "Result: Death" you know the player either isn't trying to win anymore or made a mistake. When you, as a UI designer can predict that a certain action is almost always a misclick or mistake, you should give them a chance not to do it.

This has nothing to do with the game being forgiving or not. Avoiding obvious deaths like that has nothing to do with knowledge, skill, or strategy. All it takes is an extra half a second or so to check each time. In other words, it's a waste of time. It's ironic when you're dominating a dungeon and you accidentally click on the wrong enemy and the game tells you, "Don't worry. It's a hard game." That may be true, but it has nothing to do with my death just now.

Re: Any information about gods?

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:28 pm
by Zaratustra

Re: Any information about gods?

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:34 pm
by q 3
It's also inconsistent with Bloodmages being unable to quaff mana potions if the HP cost would kill them, or throwing up a warning with red text when you try to desecrate JJ (even if you've never desecrated him before, and therefore shouldn't know what the penalty is).

Re: Any information about gods?

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:53 pm
by JonahHollow
I did think it was odd when I saw a warning message for JJ's altar desecration. I know it's a pretty risky punishment, but so are some of the other ones, like loosing all your items, or enemy resistances up, they're all bad but don't have warning messages, so that warning needs to go, in my opinion.