Holy War

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Re: Holy War

Postby TigerKnee on Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:56 am

How do I get the bank/bazaar lvl 2/3 quests to show up (according to the changelist anyway)? I don't see it in my tavern

Edit: Actually my Bazaar preparations seems to have disappeared too, for some reason.
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Re: Holy War

Postby Darvin on Sat Nov 19, 2011 4:08 am

Just play any random level, and the quest will appear.
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Re: Holy War

Postby The Avatar on Sat Nov 19, 2011 4:10 am

How do you get the crusader?
JakshdfFiha$#jaigb532i97fbnPKASN*@)sdjbau9a0)f+,Ahghs*hr)sk_sabdh^ujsbUA3{mvio/~dgffdsT^klndf,#ikon%(d

I speak chaos.
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Re: Holy War

Postby Darvin on Sat Nov 19, 2011 4:18 am

Found the Crusader in Venture Cave of all places. You need to earn 100 piety with any god to earn his trust. He's somewhat weaker than his alpha variant. He still has his attack build-up. He's no longer immune to poison and mana burn, instead ignoring the first affliction he receives (this is very useless. Afflications are easily cured in the early-game by leveling up). He no longer receives a suicide attack on death, and instead receives +1 alter (only really useful if you're packing the agnostics collar). Overall this guy may well be on the same level as Monk and Fighter; he looks very weak.


Jehora is a nightmare. If you start worshipping him early, he absolutely CRIPPLES you with corrosion and weakening. Combined with generally high piety costs for his boons this is an alter I want to run away screaming from.

Patches is nice because his penalties are short-term and his benefits are long-term, so whatever doesn't kill you will make you stronger. Jehora is quite the opposite; he's going to beat you down and spit on your corpse and offer mediocre boons at unreasonably high piety costs.
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Re: Holy War

Postby q 3 on Sat Nov 19, 2011 4:32 am

I somehow unlocked my second favorite chaos god without actually completing his dungeon (sorry, JJ, but Discord stole my heart). Died trying to get out; his next appearance was as a normal altar. I'm not quite sure yet what to think of him, but my first impression is similar to Darvin's; within moments I had been weakened and corroded multiple times, which at level 1 is basically game over. Might be worth it if you go for Chaos Avatar, I suppose (though you'll definitely want Petition, first, especially if he can mana burn). But then you're giving up all your level up restores, which is a huge penalty in any of the hard or vicious dungeons. Maybe if Last Chance were repeatable?

In any event, as far as I can tell he has zero synergy with any of the other deities, since if you convert you'll be stuck with no easy way to remove his maluses. I suppose you could start with a piety farm deity, convert to him at 100 piety and immediately take Petition, then build your piety back up and switch to a third deity (his potion conversions would go well with GG and Dracul), but that's a pretty complex chain and you'll consume a ton of tiles building up that much piety.

Crusaders are interesting. Note that you have permanent immunity to the first affliction you receive, basically allowing you to pick an immunity for any given dungeon. That's nice, but probably a bit weaker than in the alpha, since in most dungeons I'll be going with mana burn immunity anyway. And Crusaders weren't all that hot in the alpha, so making them weaker isn't such a great idea IMO. The extra altar should be useful, at least, a lot more useful than a suicide attack; maybe he should know the altar locations, too (but only the altars, not the surrounding area). Momentum doesn't display unless the bonus is active; not sure if that's intentional or not. When it does display it's another blank icon. Killing a plant causes you to lose the bonus.

On the apothecary preparation in the bazaar, correct spelling is "likelihood" (no "y").

I somehow got Auto Advance to stop working, I think after starting a new run, selecting the new class but no race, then clicking on Race/Class (the Auto Advance box is still checked, and in fact won't uncheck even if I click it).

I've noticed that Binlor's resist down boon affects even monsters with 100% resistance, just one more reason why it's overpowered.
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Re: Holy War

Postby Darvin on Sat Nov 19, 2011 4:53 am

Note that you have permanent immunity to the first affliction you receive, basically allowing you to pick an immunity for any given dungeon.

That makes more sense. So mana burn all the way!
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Re: Holy War

Postby sweetgab on Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:12 am

Jehora seems pretty broken. Here's how I won my last game:

1. Find Jehora early
2. I was in a map with lots of open space, so I explored the whole map pretty much. This stacked a few mana burns, corrosions and weakenings on me, but took my piety up to 100 (since Jehora rewards the hero just for exploring).
3. Chaos Avatar (removing corrosion 4 and weakening 2 - not that it'd matter), beat up the boss. I didn't need to kill any other monster (I think I killed one because I needed to clear the way) My kill list says, pretty much, LV10 - Boss.

Mindless, but it works.
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Re: Holy War

Postby q 3 on Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:41 am

Apparently you can't get immunity to resist down, which is slightly disappointing. Also, IMO Crusaders should be immune to the first affliction, rather than gaining the immunity afterward; weakness or corrosion immunity will only occasionally be worth it, but having to take a point of either in order to get the immunity is a fairly hefty price. You pretty much have to take the hit at a low level because if you wait, odds are you'll get hit by something less useful like poison and develop an immunity to that instead. If you have to take the first hit, that just provides more incentive to take mana burn immunity since that's quite easy to cure early on.
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Re: Holy War

Postby Darvin on Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:27 am

An Orc Crusader can suffer one hit of weakening without too much ill effect. Still, this is not a very good class feature. The selling point of the new Crusader is four alters.

By the way, I discovered a bug with the new Greenblood boon for the Earthmother; the boon claims to provide 5 corrosion on all enemies, but only applies 1 corrosion. Earthmother is quickly shaping up to be a great deity to play with at low-levels then convert out at the mid-levels with lots of piety. She's a bit of a let-down if you find her late, though, since her boons don't scale with character level very well and Taurog and Tikki Tooki are far better piety farms in the late stages.

Also the second Bezar quest is nasty. (Nevermind, you don't actually have to WIN, just purchase every item then retire. Just gotta scum until you find WEYTWUT and either Tikki Tooki or the Gloves of Midas)
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Re: Holy War

Postby FDru on Sat Nov 19, 2011 9:42 am

My first run with JJ I got Chaos Avatar at level 5 or something, then got another 70 piety before the run was finished. I failed the Last Chance but I think I would have beaten the dungeon if it had succeeded, despite using about 6 potions unlocking him (I should say, this was when I actually discovered JJ so the dungeon was already partially cleared). I believe I used Heretic, so that helped. With a little luck, any class can use this god to great effect (that's what JJ was always about anyway right?)

Also, these potion conversions... why on earth would I ever want to use them? Chaos Avatar is basically the only reason to worship JJ.
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