Improving and Changing Gods!

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Re: Improving and Changing Gods!

Postby subanark on Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:00 am

You are all focusing on end boss effect while ignoring the value of the god at low level. Earth mother is great for leveling, as those damage reduction and health bonuses mean a lot. Same with Binior, being able to break a few walls to add resists goes a long way to defeating an opponent. I guess it is a question if all gods should be helpful at all levels.
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Re: Taurog, Binlor, and Tiki Tooki

Postby dislekcia on Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:44 pm

JonahHollow wrote:reworking alot of things and adding in demi gods to the piety system sounds like a very interesting idea.


Um, very no?

That would take another 4 months of work AND while we were rolling out the god concepts you lot would basically be saying "No, this is all fucked and useless, start again again" the entire time ;)
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Re: Improving and Changing Gods!

Postby The Avatar on Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:16 pm

Then we're going to need some SERIOUS god improvements.
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Re: Improving and Changing Gods!

Postby Alweth on Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:35 pm

subanark wrote:You are all focusing on end boss effect while ignoring the value of the god at low level. Earth mother is great for leveling, as those damage reduction and health bonuses mean a lot. Same with Binior, being able to break a few walls to add resists goes a long way to defeating an opponent. I guess it is a question if all gods should be helpful at all levels.


Almost certain: Running into all the available gods before or during your fight with the boss.

Fairly unlikely: Running into a god that doesn't clash with your class and available strategies at a low level.

For this reason alone the value of a god against a boss is going to outweigh the value of a god in the early game.
Were you expecting a coherent message? Alweth does not deal with such trifles. Ignore him or watch the thread get locked!
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Re: Improving and Changing Gods!

Postby gjaustin on Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:39 pm

I absolutely love Earthmother. I frequently get over 10 damage reduction and she doesn't stop you from doing anything you actually want to do. I just make sure to use Clearance every so often to keep the level under control.

And you can't forget the free IMAWALL glyph (and free targets!) gets you a fair bit of bonus experience.


Right now I'd say that Dracul, Glowing Guardian, Earthmother, and JJ are good and I'm usually happy to see them.

Binlor is good, but needs a strong repeatable buff boon like Dracul and Earthmother have.

If Tikki-Tooki just let you buy the two potions without using up a mana or health potion, he'd be great!

Mystera and Taurog are for piety. Mystera needs a boon other than Replenishment (I see other buttons, but they clearly can't be boons. Why would I want a -50% damage penalty?). Taurog needs to not give a mana penalty or have the items be small items (possibly both).
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Re: Improving and Changing Gods!

Postby TigerKnee on Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:42 pm

If Earthmother drops the Item Conversion boon (really only useful for Orcs) in favor of some super boon for a piety dump I think she'll be okay. Her "secret" boon is that you get a lot of plants to stone (as opposed to having to stone actual exp giving enemies) and thus get a lot of bonus exp. Most games where I worship her I end up with level 9 which is quite nice.
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Re: Improving and Changing Gods!

Postby dislekcia on Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:18 pm

TigerKnee wrote:If Earthmother drops the Item Conversion boon (really only useful for Orcs) in favor of some super boon for a piety dump I think she'll be okay. Her "secret" boon is that you get a lot of plants to stone (as opposed to having to stone actual exp giving enemies) and thus get a lot of bonus exp. Most games where I worship her I end up with level 9 which is quite nice.


You can get the bonus experience effect by petrifying non-experience granting enemies? That's not right...
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Re: Improving and Changing Gods!

Postby TigerKnee on Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:31 pm

dislekcia wrote:You can get the bonus experience effect by petrifying non-experience granting enemies? That's not right...


Um, well, yes. Works with "Plant" and barbed plants.

Though if you're going to fix that then EM is going to need some buffs.
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Re: Improving and Changing Gods!

Postby The Avatar on Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:25 pm

You still get the piety, just not the exp bonus...right?

Also, I'm agreed that EM, Drac, GG, and JJ are good (well, JJ not as much, but at least you can continue to level up if you only have 2-3 weakening and corrosion).

The problem with JJ is he really doesn't help with the boss fight, except the one extra level up. How about getting rid of the potion boons, and make one weaken enemies (1 per lev/2 rounded up and repeatable) and one gamble exp (I dunno, kind of a weird suggestion). It would either reduce your exp to 0 or double it (So if you're a level 5 with 15 exp, you would either become a level 5 with 0 exp or a level 6 with 5 exp) non-repeatable.

Binlor should just buff his boons. How about making stone form a boon that costs 100 piety and you only lose stone skin 10% at a time.

Tiki Tooki: Yes on the potions! Also, does his poison boon work like the venom sword? if it doesn't you could have an incredible poisoning CYDSTEPPing rogue if you immediately convert off tiki! If it works like the venom sword, it would be okay, but not nearly as good. EDIT: It works like the old venom sword! TT rocks!!!!!

Mystera and Taurog: Taurog needs a fundamental rework, and Mystera should take off the "double-edge" off most boons. For example, she would be as good as Drac if not better if refreshment didn't heal the monsters. It might be too strong, but you can always weaken it later.

And yes every god does have to help with the boss fight because you need some sort of gambit to beat the hard bosses (i.e. poison, resistances, extra regen, HALPMEH, CYDSTEPP), and most 1st tier classes don't have one. This makes most first tier classes have to find one of the 3 glyphs or items to win, unless a GOD can help them. You shouldn't need to scum for Dracul or GG to help with the boss fights. Now, TT, Dracul, GG, and to some extent Binlor can be those gambits you need to outlast the bosses. EM needs some sort of extra thing, perhaps a boon that increases regen instead of conversion points. Perhaps 1 extra regen per tile (Not doubled by monks) in a repeating boon.
Last edited by The Avatar on Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Improving and Changing Gods!

Postby Gorgon on Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:02 pm

The Avatar wrote: How about getting rid of the potion boons


I don't think they need to get rid of the potion boons, just make them better. Maybe +30 HP and +5 MP?

Also, Mystera Annur's negative effects are too punishing. Having to pay a lot of piety for +25% fireball damage and -50% attack is horrible, and 30+10 piety for her weakening boon is too expensive.

Maybe her boons should cost less piety, like:

Magic: 4+3
Weakening: 15+10
Flames: 20+10 (can repeat)

EDIT:
And for Tikki, making him give you two potions instead of just one would be nice.
Last edited by Gorgon on Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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