Alchemy 101

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Re: Alchemy 101

Postby q 3 on Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:39 am

Thank you for the new non-sticky-clicky item interface; this is the feature I've been waiting for since the beta began, and didn't even realize it. Gone are the days when an inadvertent quaff, when I had meant to convert, would anger GG and prematurely end a run. Hooray!

I can confirm that the revised puzzle is working properly.

Crusaders feel a lot more balanced with +25% damage. Although I'm still holding out for death gaze and reduce resist immunity.

JJ is not as obnoxious as he was before, but also less interesting. At the moment, the only way I can see to use him is to repeatedly cast whatever is the cheapest glyph I have, then take Petition at 50 piety, then take Chaos Avatar at 100 piety, then either hold out for Last Resort or convert to someone else. Which is a fairly boring strategy, but unfortunately even with the reduced rate of mutation you're almost always going to end up with too many penalties to do anything but build up to Chaos Avatar. The potion boons might be useful at low levels, but not until the corrosion/weakness is all removed, and by that point they're not worth the tradeoff.

I'd kind of like to see JJ act more like Patches, with both negative and positive random changes; maybe also make mutations optional, allowing for more diverse strategies with him. Perhaps change his normal piety granting scheme to a random value between -1 and +5, with no negative effects (with a minor negative effect, like HP/MP drain, as a penalty for going below 0); then replace Petition with Polymorph, which for 5 (?) piety (repeatable) will cause some random effect to the player (+/- base damage/weakness, +/- corrosion/shield, +/- resistance, +/- bonus damage, +/- max HP/MP, cause/cure posion/mana burn, drain health).

Have only seen Pactmaker once thus far, but that list of pacts doesn't look too appealing. As others have noted, most deities are pretty easy to get piety for (the JJ strategy I outlined above requires 150 piety before you do anything, and I've never had trouble pulling it off [unless JJ decides to be a dick and inflict mana burn]). If Pactmaker takes up an altar, that means that (for most classes, in most dungeons) you'd only have two deities who actually grant boons, making your odds of getting the deity you want in any given situation much lower. Maybe Pactmaker should spawn in addition to the usual three altars you get? Maybe for some or all deities, instead of (or in addition to) giving you more piety, he can increase the potency of certain boons? (E.g., Mystera + Pactmaker lets you take Magic without enemies getting extra resist, but as a penalty you pay 2 xp every time you take the boon.)
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Re: Alchemy 101

Postby JonahHollow on Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:08 am

I haven't played the new update yet, but from reading, the alchemy thing sounds cool, but Pactmaker will need a new redesign for his pacts or something like that. AND NO JJ, I LOVED CHAOS AVATAR. Now it only levels you up one? :( Handy, but I think his 100 piety thing should be a little more, like level 2 or something, or level up 1 level, but more bonus damage.

Also enter dose not log me in. Enter will log me in, after I actually click elsewhere out of the password typing area. But will not let me log in after pressing enter just after typing in my password.
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Re: Alchemy 101

Postby The Avatar on Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:40 am

Rework for JJ! (Probably broken, but it's just a suggestion)

Mutation: Mutate randomly (corrosion, poison, weaken, mana burn), and gain 10 piety. (Will not give poison or mana burn if you already have it)

Last Chance: Same, but kills you if you fail...

Chaos Power: Randomly increase or decrease a stat (+/- 5 hp, 1 mana, or 3 base damage). 20 piety. Repeatable.

Chaos Conversion: Randomly converts an item for double conversion points. 30 piety repeatable.

Gambling Master: Skews odds for last chance (by 25 piety) and mutation (least chance of weakening, less chance of corrosion). 50 piety.

Avatar of Chaos: Removes all corrosion and weakening, grants 0-200 conversion points (can only randomize multiples of 5). Randomly makes you a hybrid race, that gets both conversion things. (i.e. Orcish-Dwarf gains 1 hp per lev for 80 and 1 stacking base for 120, thus gaining both at 240). 100 piety.

You no longer randomly incur bad effect or piety for actions. Mutation is the only source of piety, other than +1-5 for weytwut and +/- 1-10 every level up. Punishment for 0 piety is randomly mutating you 3 times.

This much more reflects JJ's random side, in my opinion, and is much better suited than the current JJ.
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Re: Alchemy 101

Postby Darvin on Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:21 am

To be honest, I dislike "all or nothing" randomness. Heads I get a massive boon that lets me win, tails I die or am so penalized that I restart... no, that's stupid. Patches works because none of his penalties are so horrible as to be game-enders (usually, that is... I've been trapped by his teleport antics a few times, but honestly it's rare), and the benefits accumulate while the penalties are eventually overcome.

I'd like to so Jehora move in that direction. There's a place for randomness, but I'm not here to play snakes and ladders. I want context to the roll of the dice, a calculated understanding of the odds and consequences. I want penalties that I can overcome, not penalties that overcome me. Right now, being hit by random shots of corrosion and weakening is absolutely devastating and is still a deal-ender if you aren't going straight for Chaos Avatar. I'm not going to praise the reduced frequency. Being violated by a tentacle horror from another dimension slightly less frequently is nothing worth celebrating.
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Re: Alchemy 101

Postby TigerKnee on Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:40 am

Oh well, I'm another dude who will add that I hate new JJ, mostly because he's way too Xom from Crawl now. And I hated Xom in Crawl too.

I liked him better in his alpha incarnation where his motif was "Take pain, deliver pain"
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Re: Alchemy 101

Postby dislekcia on Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:46 am

Hotfixing the Schrodinger's Alchemist issue right now...
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Re: Alchemy 101

Postby Lujo on Sat Nov 26, 2011 2:14 pm

The alchemy compression sigil (havent seen it yet, just logged on) sounds like a nice buff to Taurog. If I can make my tri-sword small, get all of the equipment and still have room for potions, well...
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Re: Alchemy 101

Postby The Avatar on Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:21 pm

True, but that just makes it better for monks and berserkers. The 2 mp trade off is still not worth it for all other classes...
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Re: Alchemy 101

Postby Zaratustra on Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:54 pm

I really wish "last preparations" would include chosen items. Scumming Complicated Tasks lv. 5 for Taurog is a pain in the ass otherwise.
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Re: Alchemy 101

Postby The Avatar on Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:15 pm

What do you mean???????????
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