Goblins...?

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Re: Goblins...?

Postby The Avatar on Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:13 pm

Hmm... I like that tri-sword idea. Also, +1 stacking damage reduction could work, but it is so much better at lower levels, and quickly becomes obsolete. Unfortunately, that is the same problem with his current effect. +10 gold per 85 conversion points could work, but with my 50 gold I'm usually buying everything anyways, so unless I can get more shops I say no. Perhaps 150 +10 gold +1 shop?
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Re: Goblins...?

Postby Gorgon on Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:22 pm

The problem with dwarves is that they have no synergy with items (other than dragon shield). Most items simply raise base damage or damage bonus, and the items that raise base defense/defense bonus don't really stack with each other, so using a human or an orc is generally better.

The game is getting more offensive with each update, that's why defensive classes and races are becoming weaker (like the monk). If more defense-friendly items are made, then these classes will become more useable without making the other classes less used.

Maybe some item like this:

Metronome: +3% base damage each time you are hit by an enemy. Caps at 75%. The effect returns to 0% after killing an enemy.
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Re: Goblins...?

Postby q 3 on Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:44 pm

The Avatar wrote:+10 gold per 85 conversion points could work, but with my 50 gold I'm usually buying everything anyways, so unless I can get more shops I say no. Perhaps 150 +10 gold +1 shop?


Well, personally I think the 50 gold preparation is way too much and needs to be scaled back (or there need to be more potential gold sinks in dungeons); if you can afford to buy everything, there's no strategy involved, and there should always be strategy involved. But even with 50 starting gold, extra gold from conversion would be very useful with the Elite Items prep (if you get the Amulet, the Orb, and the Dwarven Gauntlets, you're not going to be able to afford all three - never mind whatever else the shops have - even though you'd probably want them all) or when worshiping Tikki Tooki (go ahead and Tithe your starting gold so you can get poison strike, and you'll still be able to afford all the items you want).
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Re: Goblins...?

Postby pRaz on Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:29 pm

Gold for conversion seems like it would fairly useful (especially since you can find Goblins way before you get the 50 gold prep, and I dislike games that balance everything around the endgame). I don't know exactly how much gold is generated per map, but what about +1 XP per gold found, stacking, for 200 CP? It would make Black Market more useful, but you'd also have to be careful about when you pick gold up, but if you used it right it seems like it could be great near the end of a run.

I think rolling Tri-Sword back to +2 damage would be fine; that would put it more on-par with the Gnome/Whargarbl Wizard/Sorceror combo - that is, it would still be great, but you wouldn't immediately rush for Halfling Berserker/Warlord any time you know the boss won't be physical-resistant.

I'm fine with Humans right now, but there should be more items that give +Base Attack rather than +% (or make the existing ones better; bump Skullpicker up to +10 with a 50 Piety/2 max mana cost; possibly also increase the piety loss for casting spells).

I definitely wouldn't mind knocking Elves down to 60 CP to help casters be more useful (I also wouldn't mind another direct-damage spell, maybe an ice-based attack that does less damage than BURN but removes First Strike - in fact, a way to remove First Strike is a whole nother thread altogether I think :) )
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Re: Goblins...?

Postby Darvin on Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:45 pm

I'm against a gold conversion unless there is a major overhaul to our other options in that regard. With the 50 gold preparation, the translocation scroll, Tikki Tooki, and the Gloves of Midas... there are too many situations as-is where I actually have enough resources to buy every single item on the level. It's rare that I can't afford to buy what I need and I actually feel like I'm missing out on something. Only use I can see for a goblin with gold conversion is to tribute Tikki Tooki for fast poison or purist runs. That's too narrow.
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Re: Goblins...?

Postby subanark on Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:18 pm

Dwarfs do have synergy. Health potions are 40% of max health, so more health is more health restored per potion. Also, Bloodmages restore 15% max health per blood pool.

Stacking damage reduction is similar to stacking base attack. Although I'm not sure if damage reduction takes effect before or after resistances? If it takes effect after, then it scales in a similar way with %attack.
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Re: Goblins...?

Postby q 3 on Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:52 pm

The benefit Dwarves get from their health potions pales in comparison to the benefit that Halflings get simply from having more potions in the first place. And that's not even factoring in the Tri-Sword.

Fixed damage reduction takes place before resistances - if you have -5 damage and 15% phys resist, a monster with a 100 damage attack will hit you for 81 [(100 - 5) * (100% - 15%)], not 80 [(100 * [100% - 15%]) - 5]. It's not a huge distinction, though, at least outside of Bleaty-type bosses. Still, stacking damage reduction would be nearly impossible to balance. At 100 points for 1 reduction, stacking, 1000 conversion points would net you a total -55 damage; add another 40-50 lifesteal and outside of Bleaty or Tower of Goo you're basically invincible.

pRaz wrote:(I also wouldn't mind another direct-damage spell, maybe an ice-based attack that does less damage than BURN but removes First Strike - in fact, a way to remove First Strike is a whole nother thread altogether I think :) )


WEYTWUT removes first strike and a few other effects, temporarily, and Earthmother has a repeatable 5 piety boon that will do the same to every monster on the current floor.
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Re: Goblins...?

Postby The Avatar on Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:16 pm

Hmm.. Perhaps FREZUMGUD 3 damage ber level and slow 6 mana.
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Re: Goblins...?

Postby JonahHollow on Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:19 pm

What about glyphs that have a limited numbers of use before they disappear?
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Re: Goblins...?

Postby Gorgon on Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:31 pm

Then it would be a wand, not a glyph! Wands would be a nice addition to the game.
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