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QCF Design Community • View topic - Troubling Times pt 2


Troubling Times pt 2

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Re: Troubling Times pt 2

Postby Darvin on Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:51 am

I support changing the rogue to only get their bonus damage when above half health, then reducing their vulnerabilities. Dwarf Rogue can take you into the hard difficulty dungeons, but into vicious it's an Orc Rogue with CYDSTEPP or nothing at all, because there is no way a rogue can survive a single blow by any means except death protection once damage is above 120.
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Re: Troubling Times pt 2

Postby TigerKnee on Thu Dec 29, 2011 3:05 am

Funny, just one update ago the Monk was widely considered to suck.

Now with a slight change of 10% more max resists he's "overpowered" and needs to be nerfed.
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Re: Troubling Times pt 2

Postby The Avatar on Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:24 am

That's because the difference between 65 and 75 is much larger than the difference between 0 and ten. Resistance growth is not linear.
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Re: Troubling Times pt 2

Postby FDru on Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:30 am

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Re: Troubling Times pt 2

Postby Fran on Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:32 am

Why not just make damage reduction multiplicative in various sources and additive per source?
Every class would get the same out of damage reduction given by gods or items this way and the monk could stay the way it is. I think this is the most intuitive solution.
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Re: Troubling Times pt 2

Postby Lujo on Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:08 am

He was overpowered even then, it was just that it wasn't obvious. I've been clamouring about it for a while, but subnark sort of proved some of my points when he completed Gaan'Telet (and it was probably quite possible to do it a lot eariler).

People were used to a very high power curve, and It took uping the resists on a character to 75% to make it obvious just how broken the mechanic is. When you beat Gaan'Telet a bunch of times by turning any character into Monk, and then plow through so much stuff that you couldn't otherwise, it stopps being "yay, i did it" and becomes "wait, this is wrong".
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Re: Troubling Times pt 2

Postby Gorgon on Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:26 pm

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Re: Troubling Times pt 2

Postby Lujo on Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:03 pm

I almost got pwned by Shifty Brickwork!
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Re: Troubling Times pt 2

Postby The Avatar on Thu Dec 29, 2011 3:20 pm

Well then what do we do? Just rework him completely? Lower his starting resists? Making his damage penalty -3 base per level and -50% damage? Also, which is better, a halfling monk with a tri-sword or an orc monk with a conversion stone/seal? Solving one of these combos would simply be changing the tri-sword, but I beat Gaan-Telet with an orc monk too...
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Re: Troubling Times pt 2

Postby Lujo on Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:41 pm

The tri sword in te example was just there to give them both +12 base dmg, and the race could've been any because of no conversions. There are so few relevant +DMG items in the game right now that i had to use it.

The simple fact is that %based DMG resistance, the way it works now, reduces the hp cost of making an attack, and once you get past a certain point (50%? 40%? 33%?), a character with 42 damage can ridiculously outperform someone with almost twice the base damage. At 75%, at lvl 9 you can turn a single HALMEH activation into 2 PHYSICAL DMG attacks. At LVL 10 a 75% monk can deal almost 4X his pysical off of one healt potion.

The point at which tih becomes a major problem should first be determined. And then set it as the cap. 50% allows a character 3 hits where a no resist character gets one (with my numbers). The dragonshiels (18%), gives a character 2 hits, where a character with no resists gets one. Something along those lines should be baseline, if you want to have DMG resistance in % form in the game, without having a really really high power curve.

A character with no ATT or DMG penalty, and no resists should be used to determine how much stronger is the resistant char suposed to be. And then you can't have an item that gives anyone 18% resists for both mag and phys in the game, as it breaks all kinds of crap.

SIDENOTE: Having DMG resistance is very simmillar to lowering the cost of BURNDAYRAZ. Lowering it by 1 (around 17%) doesn't unbalance it much. Lowering the cost of BURNDAYRAZ by 75% would make it cost, say, 2 Mana. How in the world would you balance wizard then? (although this is only the illustration of a principle, as PHYS dmg can be increesed with ease, while BURNDAYRAZ dmg is quite more limited, except with fire heart, which i consider a silly item anyway)
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