Fixing the Goblin

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Fixing the Goblin

Postby Darvin on Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:30 am

Change the goblin from 5 XP per 85 conversion points to 5 stacking XP per 100 conversion points (5 XP from first conversion, 10 XP from second, 15 XP from third...)

All characters gain the benefit of a full heal and mana restore for every 50 XP after level 10.


This allows Goblins to accrue an amount of XP that is actually appreciable at higher levels, and on levels where hitting level 10 is a forgone conclusion (or if Tikki Tooki or IMAWAL are used) they can still benefit from having additional XP.
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Re: Fixing the Goblin

Postby The Avatar on Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:09 pm

I dunno. With a conversion stone, 5 glyphs, and an Amulet of Yendor you could hit level 9, or 10 if you converted a few more things, without fighting anything.You're basically saying every conversion is a level up.
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Re: Fixing the Goblin

Postby Crawly McCrawlsa on Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:53 pm

Stacking is just waaaay too powerful on normal/hard dungeons. lvl 3 or 4 just by taking conversion seal + sensation stone. Not to mention every glyph after that is worth like 20+ exp... You could midfight level up on every monster you wanted to without even trying.

I'm not sure how viable it would be on vicious dungeons. Perhaps with the pactmaker overheal on levelup you could take enough advantage from the level up health/mana restores to take on vicious bosses, but i'm not sure.

I just feel it's too powerful in small dungeons, but wouldn't be strong enough in the higher level dungeons where you always hit level 10.
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Re: Fixing the Goblin

Postby q 3 on Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:58 pm

Darvin wrote:All characters gain the benefit of a full heal and mana restore for every 50 XP after level 10.


That would be the end of the Tower and Naga City as Vicious dungeons, for sure; I'm not sure it would have much effect outside of them. IMO the biggest problem with Goblins is that bonus experience is a lot easier to get now than it was in the alpha, even in the hardest dungeons, simply because there are so many things you can do to be ridiculously overpowered at level 1. I'm still in favor of Goblins getting 10 gold per ~80 points, and reducing the bank preparations to 15/25/35 gold so that dungeon economics aren't quite so out of whack. (Or, alternatively, impose some sort of penalty for the higher gold preps, since as it is once you unlock the 35 and then 50 gold preps there is literally no reason to ever take the lesser amount. E.g., 35 gold and shop prices increase by +1, 50 gold and shop prices increase by +2 [paying interest on your loan].)
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Re: Fixing the Goblin

Postby Darvin on Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:07 pm

With a conversion stone, 5 glyphs, and an Amulet of Yendor you could hit level 9, or 10 if you converted a few more things, without fighting anything.

I hardly see the problem with this. Once he's level 10, a goblin is substantially weaker than any other race. Plus in your example you blew your preparation on a sensation stone. Yes, you could reach level 10 early, but you'd be significantly weaker as a level 10.

Stacking is just waaaay too powerful on normal/hard dungeons. lvl 3 or 4 just by taking conversion seal + sensation stone.

There are many preparation combos that are already auto-win on normal/hard dungeon. A bloodmage with fire magnet and burning heart, for instance, or a paladin with dragon shield.

Unless you're playing purist, leveling up in these scenarios is easy and you should be able to reach level 6 or 7 before you even find the boss.


I just feel it's too powerful in small dungeons, but wouldn't be strong enough in the higher level dungeons where you always hit level 10.

Guess that's our fundamental issue. As it stands right now, a high-level goblin might not even have enough conversion points available to be a full level ahead of the other races (and he might not even be ahead at all after accounting for the extra bonus XP other races may accrue). Right now goblins only work on scenarios where you need to level up extremely quickly in the face of overwhelmingly powerful monsters... but no such level exists.


That would be the end of the Tower and Naga City as Vicious dungeons, for sure

It'd make them easier, but I doubt it'd knock them out of "vicious" range. So long as you ensure that humility doesn't grant a full heal if you already have enough XP to level up (which would be "double-dipping") I think it'd be fine, and it'd give goblins at least some benefit from their racial bonus in these situations.
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Re: Fixing the Goblin

Postby FDru on Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:24 pm

The Avatar wrote:I dunno. With a conversion stone, 5 glyphs, and an Amulet of Yendor you could hit level 9, or 10 if you converted a few more things, without fighting anything.You're basically saying every conversion is a level up.


Sounds like a big, fat waste of bonus exp to me. It might give Goblins some niche uses though... right now I can't think of any reason to use one.
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Re: Fixing the Goblin

Postby The Avatar on Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:52 pm

Uh... Finding the boss early as a monk, leveling up to 10 and beating the crap out of him with your huge amount of tiles.

Also for the 50 full heal, you could make it so it filled up at 50 and stayed there without leveling up, and if you took humility than it would 999 when you hit 10 again. Also if it was reusable than these goblins would be great. Reach level 10, slug it out with the boss, and kill everything for extra healing.

And how is it a waste? You're getting free exp up to level 10 without fighting. It's like prepping Yendor.
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Re: Fixing the Goblin

Postby FDru on Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:04 pm

The Avatar wrote:And how is it a waste? You're getting free exp up to level 10 without fighting. It's like prepping Yendor.


Because you're not getting bonus exp? I thought that was pretty clear.

If there was actually some use to exp post-level 10 then any bonus exp you use to get there would still be highly valuable.
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Re: Fixing the Goblin

Postby The Avatar on Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:07 pm

If you're level 10 why would you need bonus exp? There is no exp benefit pass level 10.
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Re: Fixing the Goblin

Postby FDru on Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:53 pm

The Avatar wrote:There is no exp benefit pass level 10.


There is in Darvin's suggestion. Which I assume this thread is about, since he made it :roll:
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