[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 120: preg_filter(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 120: preg_filter(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 120: preg_filter(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 120: preg_filter(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 120: preg_filter(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 120: preg_filter(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 120: preg_filter(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 120: preg_filter(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
QCF Design Community • View topic - Monk still ridiculous + a guide to playing this game


Monk still ridiculous + a guide to playing this game

All things Desktop Dungeons

Re: Monk still ridiculous + a guide to playing this game

Postby TigerKnee on Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:11 pm

TigerKnee
 
Posts: 563
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:54 am

Re: Monk still ridiculous + a guide to playing this game

Postby Fran on Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:19 pm

User avatar
Fran
 
Posts: 410
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:06 pm

Re: Monk still ridiculous + a guide to playing this game

Postby gjaustin on Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:32 pm

gjaustin
 
Posts: 1113
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:29 am

Re: Monk still ridiculous + a guide to playing this game

Postby Lujo on Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:34 pm

Oh, I'll take my time answering this. I sort of got into a habit of being a douchebag on these forums, but I do have genuine interest in a couple of things regarding the game, and what can and can't be fixed. I figured that making a user friendly way to edit the numbers in a game like this might be difficult, I'm not really camoring for it as much as being frustrated that I can't test stuff out on my own and then SHOW people that if you "fix" both a class and the monsters the challenge remains the same.

Also, some of the problems I see (and viciously exploit) are known to me from years of playing and beta testing MoBA's. I showed a DoTA/HoN pro the game and the moment he saw the numbers like 50% hysical resistance his reply was: "Are they serious?". My reply was: "I'm not sure." I whish there was a way to illustrate to you guys exactly how wrong those nubers are without getting you hooked on that crap. Could I at lest get your reasons for focusing so much on scaling DMG resists? Becasue any MoBA player can tell you that a char with any % based abilites revolving around DPS, but especially tanking can mop the floor with the entire other team once he gets a few lvls and items. Complete years of DoTA and HoN were revolving around one team trying to get their "Monk" or carry farmed up, while trying to prevent the other team from getting their carry from getting farmed up. And monsters in this game are static, and can do fuck all to defend themselves, while no sane MoBa developer would allow anyone to have static 50% dmg resists in RPG.

Anyway, I'd really like to have a chat with you guys on this topic, I actually know what I'm going on about.

The second thing I'm really wondering if it's being discussed in your sessions is - you've added a lot of features without a way to gauge their effect, and certain ones, like conversion and Piety are even more busted than the prep system q3 rightfully complained about. You have spent a lot of time trying to tackle te untacklable (the % based resists, if you don't believe me, the MONK was not supposed to be able to beat Slime Pits if he was a reasonable class).

What I'm getting at is that exploiting piety and conversion is easy and powerfull, and is the main reason you don't need anything but GG and TT to become a monster. GG thrives off conversion, and adds piety onto the benefits you already get from conversion (and all that is just extra oomph to characters, compared to Alpha), while GG lets you convert gold into piety and tack on more abilities to allready gamebreaking characters. The Blood Symbol and Troll Heart are incredibly powerfull because of their cost/conversion ratio's - so powerfull in fact that they destroy design space. And to people claiming Troll Heart's effect is bad - I say it's quite nice and I'm mopping floors with everything with two gods and no whoopaz. I see it as sort of a bonus on my conversion milestone.

My question is: Why aren't there monsters that tax your piety? Your gold? Your conversion points (making someone go negative conversion and lose his benefits would be a GREAT hazard)? Percentage based damage reduction can't effectively be dealt with by monsters in an RPG (too much of an advantage, too wide a differance between characters that have it and those that don't), but money, conversion points and piety are so plentifull, abusable and beneficial that they allow chars to compete with an unbeatable tactic creating the illusion of there not being MAJOR problems with the game.

I'd like to discuss these issues, or at least get some answers and justifications for stuff, as I feel like fixing some problems is not that difficult (ok, so the imput might be tedious, but the solutions might not be so drastic). I don't WANT to play a minimalist game, but I can find no reason to play it any other way ATM.

Oh, and I know all the interactions can be insanely difficult to keep in mind and keep track off, as what you have designed is not a game as much as an ENGINE ;) And it's GREAT :)
I almost got pwned by Shifty Brickwork!
User avatar
Lujo
 
Posts: 3793
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:47 am

Re: Monk still ridiculous + a guide to playing this game

Postby TigerKnee on Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:52 pm

TigerKnee
 
Posts: 563
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:54 am

Re: Monk still ridiculous + a guide to playing this game

Postby Lujo on Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:57 pm

I almost got pwned by Shifty Brickwork!
User avatar
Lujo
 
Posts: 3793
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:47 am

Re: Monk still ridiculous + a guide to playing this game

Postby TigerKnee on Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:00 pm

Don't you think that's a bit skewed by the fact that you're basically only using a Monk?
TigerKnee
 
Posts: 563
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:54 am

Re: Monk still ridiculous + a guide to playing this game

Postby Gorgon on Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:10 pm

User avatar
Gorgon
 
Posts: 281
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:32 pm

Re: Monk still ridiculous + a guide to playing this game

Postby dislekcia on Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:20 pm

User avatar
dislekcia
 
Posts: 2321
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:58 pm
Location: Cape Town, South Africa

Re: Monk still ridiculous + a guide to playing this game

Postby Lujo on Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:50 pm

I almost got pwned by Shifty Brickwork!
User avatar
Lujo
 
Posts: 3793
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:47 am

PreviousNext

Return to Desktop Dungeons

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 76 guests

cron