Monk still ridiculous + a guide to playing this game

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Re: Monk still ridiculous + a guide to playing this game

Postby Darvin on Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:39 am

We've been waiting for people to find the Tikki potion synergies for ages now

You do need to reword the Reflex Potion's tooltip. It's not clear at all that it gives you two hits.
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Re: Monk still ridiculous + a guide to playing this game

Postby dislekcia on Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:39 am

TigerKnee wrote:As far as personal observations go, one thing that seems to aggravate crashing is playing really fast and causing a lot of "special effects" to spawn, such as slamming a monster multiple times in really quick succession and causing a lot of sparkles to fly out of it. Since you're playing a Monk, there's a pretty high chance of that happening.


Good point, we should see if we can implement some sort of particle cap further into the polish phase.
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Re: Monk still ridiculous + a guide to playing this game

Postby Darvin on Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:43 am

After a few play-throughs, I strongly suspect Tikki Tooki's boons are causing these stability issues. I haven't gotten crashes at all with my new profile... and then suddenly I unlock Tikki Tooki and the game starts crashing once I use his boons.
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Re: Monk still ridiculous + a guide to playing this game

Postby Lujo on Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:15 am

dislekcia wrote:You've been around long enough to see our update cycle, so I don't understand why you're getting so worked up over this. There are already Monk changes in the pipeline, you'll see them tomorrow. They're not the changes you've been suggesting - I think we can agree that we don't see the game the same way you do (for one thing, it's so not a MOBA?) - but they're going to be interesting nonetheless.


For the millionth time, the game is not a MOBA, but the simmilarities with certain elements of MOBAS are the reason why monk CAN beat the vicious Halls of Steel, while everything else has a hard time. I told you, MOBA'S brought me here, it's being able to use my MOBA background that's accountable for most of my sucess in the game. And since I seem to know what I'm doing and saying most of the time, and ussualy end up with screenshots and confirmations of my theories (and other peoples), why is it so hard to take into consideration that I might be quite spot on with this?

dislekcia wrote:You weren't around for the really broken stuff (Trisword + clicking = win) so you come across as exceedingly hyperbolic. Yes, it's obvious that you care about the game and that's totally cool and awesome, but I really don't see what else we're supposed to do other than what we're already doing: Wake up, work on the game, think about everything a ton, try to make the best game we can for the largest player group we can.


I WAS around for that, but I wasn't posting, as such things were just some of the obvious stuff that I was waiting for to get fixed. In the list of those were the resists, and the lockerable conversion stone, I tohught you'd figure all this on your own and remove them without any need for me to point them out. And you're doing fine in regards to some stuff (finally fixing Bleaty, cydstep and all that)

dislekcia wrote:The game IS good. It's also constantly getting better, thanks in no small part to the feedback from everyone here, which we really appreciate and usually enjoy reading. But you do need to realise that hardcore mechanics like multiple god switching is seriously high skill progression curve stuff! We've been waiting for people to find the Tikki potion synergies for ages now, there's a lot more in the game that people haven't found yet. If we were to respond emotionally on the same scale as you seem to demand we do, we'd have been driven away from reading the forums by this thread alone - it honestly makes no sense to keep going on and on about the same set of feedback like it's a personal affront to your dignity.


True, I't just that I'm STILL able to exploit (and seem to need to) the stuff that was obviously in need of fixing about the time of the 27 dmg Tri-Sword. Really, most of the stuff I confirmed as busted on this experimental run would've been quite obvious for ages if everyone (including me) just skipped the witch quests. If we didn't have potions clogging up our shops just aboout everything thats "special" about this run would've been common knowledge. I was infuriated that not fixing such stuff detracted a lot from us testing out existing and coming content in meaningful ways.

And MOBA comparisons not being obvious, to either you or the playerbase, probably IS the reason the community focused on cydstep strategies so much - to a MOBA veteran, resists were a much more tempting and worthwhile way to cheeze out, so I discovered cydstep unrelated power curve anommalies and was having some trouble in talking/goading/haranguing people into dropping the damn cydstep and checking out all the cheeze they've been missing out on. And the game is loaded with cheeze, there's plenty of stuff that redefines the concept of "disc one nuke", as has been noted by mostly everyone paying attention to this thread, and some others. Big shout out to q3, if I may, for pointing out the inherent problems that came with introducing preps in the first place, ages ago. And to Subanark, Darvin, Avatar, gjaustin and sidestepper (and everyone else) who adapted the "I am having sucess with this-and-this but am I supposed to?" outlook.

For example, I've been abusing TT for ages, I just felt i needed to be really bombastic about it to incite people to try it out (for obvious reasons it was less obvious to anyone focusing on cydstep, while I ignored cydstep as a rule and found out tons of stuff nobody could confirm). Now that you've taken cydstep out as a easily viable option (and I've been haranguing for that for ages, and good reason), people are discovering even more powerfull and deep stuff daily. Yes, I was a hyperventillating douchebag, but it was very much worth it, and as soon as you fix potions in any manner (several solutions are floating around), all of this will be worth it for everyone. The realization and confirmation that the witch quests were creating enourmous amounts of "fake difficulty" was quite possibly worth all my forum excesess, when you consider what everybody had gained from it. I'm sure of it.

At least the discussions have turned from "buff this or that to compete with X absurd strat" to "lets bring stuff in line a bit", and considering all the cheeze everywhere I realy think it's for the best.

dislekcia wrote:As far as the apparent Gaan'Telet crash you're getting goes: We're working on theories as to what it could be. Probably memory-related. It's not hitting us in testing and it doesn't seem to be a stability issue for that many other people according to the run stats we're getting so there's other stuff that's higher priority right now. Memory issues are always tricky, they take time to find and figure out - I only hope that you don't have an aneurysm in the meantime...


I know, i know, I'm not riding you for the Unity Crashes, it's just... Can you imagine how infuriating is to waste an hour of time to go through Gaan'Telet on a gimped profile, pull all the trickshots perfectly just to have it crash, and lose you money which means you not only have to do it all again (including scumming for soul orb that you only really need for the boss) AND grind money on top of that on a profile that's chosen to be gimped just so I could AVOID scumming and grinding?

And doing all that every time knowing full well I'd have to face a 5000 HP boss with 50% resists, and knowing I'd have an impossible time capping my own resists out, being unable to prep RBS (and I was the one that suggested an AA floor way back then), and having no acess to Schaden or Whoopaz? :(

What's worse, I bet the crashes only hapen because I haven't unlocked all the gods, and doing it would "waste" my profile. I can't be mad at you or anyone, it's just incredibly frustrating. Could we test it out, please, if it's not too much of a bother? Could you allow all gods to spawn like they do in Naga City, and we see if I have Unity Bugs then? And if it works, it saves you the bother to look for a memory leak in a huge dungeon? Please?

I don't want to waste a profile that's allowed me to point out so much great but underused content to people allready, and livelied the forum discussions to no end, and brought light to a whole bunch of questions that should've been asked a long time ago :( I'm really puttin in an enourmous amount of time and effort into this, i love this game, and I'm one of the guys that whish there were more "help the dev's" profiles to help you with funding, please make life a little easier for guys like me - we're a special kind of lunatic that you actually WANT to have as playtesters. Big corps like Blizzard give out buckets of money to people that are capable of this stuff, but big corps didn't make Desktop Dungeons ;)

Especially if you as dev's don't have time or energy to smooth out your metagame. We do. :geek: And we have the willpower to go try do a gimped Gaan'Telet run after several Unity crashes at the boss. And we do it all for free. :ugeek: Cut us some slack, please? :cry: Fix potions ASAP? Please? :geek:
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Re: Monk still ridiculous + a guide to playing this game

Postby gjaustin on Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:01 pm

I'm just waiting for Monk to be nerfed and then everyone starts using Body Pact. :)
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Re: Monk still ridiculous + a guide to playing this game

Postby Lujo on Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:06 pm

gjaustin wrote:I'm just waiting for Monk to be nerfed and then everyone starts using Body Pact. :)


A discovery of yours that's not getting the deserved hate because of being overshadowed by an even more unbalanced feature? :)
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Re: Monk still ridiculous + a guide to playing this game

Postby gjaustin on Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:18 pm

Hate? Just because I got a Paladin up to 60% magic resist on Naga City without Elven Boots, a Dragon Shield, or Taurog doesn't mean it deserves hate :)
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Re: Monk still ridiculous + a guide to playing this game

Postby gjaustin on Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:28 pm

Oh, I also got a Feeling Parched last night on Naga City as an Orc Monk. I didn't find an Agnostic's Collar, but I did find the Blacksmith subdungeon.

Worshipped GG topside, took Enlightenment. Desecrated Earthmother to convert to Taurog, took +15% resist. Descrated TT and Mystera to convert to JJ. Took Petition. Took Scholar's Pact (overheal and +30% damage on level up).

Proceeded to wipe the floor with everything. I didn't even regen fight Super Meatman - I just killed him from full to dead thanks to my 250 health and 75% resists (Overheal).
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Re: Monk still ridiculous + a guide to playing this game

Postby Lujo on Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:37 pm

I warned people what'd happen if they unlock more than two gods :D Cheeze central!

I've had another crash at bleaty, I'm just trying out the shop upgrade I just purchased. Finding Soul Orb is a lot easier, but finding the 5th health potion isn't. The fact that it lowered my chances of finding tower shield are less than amusing, as well. I have no reliable way to boost my resists over 50tyish, and it's still good enough to quite possibly beat the dungeon without RBS, if the game didn't crash on every run.

I HAVE however found a delightfull way to use the damn useless mana bead :) When setting up a dodge, or just eating TT popcorn, I can just squeeze out one more fireball that I sometimes need to get rid of a blob. If it brought back 2 mana, I might also help out loads against AA's (every bit of anything helps there).

I wondering if the Cursed-Shop-Pool-Defiling-Uslesss-Bead-of-Unuseable-Uselessness would be stupidly broken on a wizard if it gave back 2 mana? It could use a price increese along with a CP point increese the way it is, I might not get humorously angry every time I see it and try to find uses for it. Hmmmm....

Or at least harangue for a it's tooltip to change to something like "I r in your shopz, dilluting your poolz"...
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Re: Monk still ridiculous + a guide to playing this game

Postby Lujo on Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:50 pm

Loving the new update, and testing out a crash related hypothesis, props to Darvin.

One of the things I love about the new update (besides finaly nerfing the damn Monk) is that the Zombie dog polluting my pool got me an idea concering the Damned-Useless-Bead-Of-Stuepfying-Pointlesness, namely, it made me appriciate it a bit more. This appriciation led to me figuring out a way to clear the goo floor without needing TT at all, using said nice and cheap little trinket. The added benefit is that everytime I see it in the shops now i go "Aaaah! The Incredibly-Useless-Shop-Defiling-Bead-of-Pointlessitude! This will come in handy!" :)

And then I ran into the bandit floor and clicked away twice on reflex.

Well played devs. :D
Last edited by Lujo on Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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