The new "metagame" - Perfect Profiles for Classes

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The new "metagame" - Perfect Profiles for Classes

Postby gjaustin on Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:07 pm

Lujo taking what a few us had fiddled around with to the logical extreme has made me think. Why stop at making a "perfect" profile when you can make a "more perfect" profile for each individual class?

I'm primarily thinking about the monster classes, who all have slightly odd mechanics that don't work quite the way of the other classes. At a minimum, you certainly don't want GG as a Vampire or Gorgon!

So this is the thread where we try and figure out the perfect setup for a particular class. I'll start with one of the weaker classes - perhaps he isn't so weak with the perfect setup?

VAMPIRE

Unlock Warlord for CYDSTEPP (combined with using Dracul to lower max HP, this will allow you to beat Bleaty)
Unlock Paladin for HALPMEH
Unlock Bloodmage for BLUDPOWA and Vampiric Blade
Items - Vampiric Blade and Agnostic's Collar (for Naga City/Tower)

Pactmaker and Dracul are the obvious deities.

I think Taurog is the best choice for a third one. He gives a lot of piety for cleaning up low level undead. At 0% resists, his Shield is basically another 5 life steal and he also provides another option for Death Protection. If Pactmaker won't spawn, Binlor is a nice choice as well since the Vampire can ignore his desecration penalty.


As a bonus, one of my favorite classes

HALF-DRAGON
Unlock Paladin for HALPMEH
Unlock Bloodmage for BLUDPOWA and Piercing Wand (I think)
Items - Piercing Wand, Viper Ward, Soul Orb, Agnostic's Collar, Rock Heart

For deities, GG and Pactmaker are obvious. I'm not impressed with TT for this setup since (like the Vampire), Poison doesn't work so well. I think the third choice should be Binlor, since he provides more Knockback and also gives an option to lower magic resists.


I haven't decided if I should unlock Fireheart to go with Piercing Wand or not. I'm not completely sold on Piercing Wand (thanks to Binlor), but its magic resist lowering ability is very nice for the Half-Dragon. It would combine very well with Fireheart to take out a few of the more annoying bosses (Bleaty).
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Re: The new "metagame" - Perfect Profiles for Classes

Postby Sidestepper on Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:15 pm

This is an interesting puzzle. I'll have to think about this.

Unfortunately, you can't get Dracul without first getting GG, so that dilutes your pool a bit.
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Re: The new "metagame" - Perfect Profiles for Classes

Postby Lujo on Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:47 pm

The question I started around with wasn't specialized, so I didn't consider what TO unlock, as much as what NOT to unlock.

If you're trying to make a "perfect" class proficle, you have to get to that class first, and with the economy gimped as it is I see no reason for playing the game any other way but making the HALPMEH Conversion Stone Monk available and able to get any gear you might need for you.

Or in other words, any perfect profile would be based on having the following:

GG and TT, Berserker (for locker space), Monk, Paladin, all the basic classes, all possible races. No whitch, and I'm not sure about the lvl 3 bazzar.

Further things to consider is wether or not you need poison ward and soul orb (you do for getting to your monster class), you may or may not need Agnostics collar.

Sorcerer is a good unlock as he brings Goats into play. Assasin is a difficult choice - he brings in bandits which are great to have around, especially w GG, but he brings in another glyph which reduces the chance to get HALMEH. Bloodmage has worse spawns, especially for Half-Dragon, but for the Vampire he should be ok.

The third deity choice can't be pactmaker, as he won't spawn, and if you go with TT and GG as I advise, then the only ones you can choose from are Mysteria, Drac, EM and Taurog, and you don't really need a third deity unless focusing on a specific class/deity intereaction, so you would not be hurt in any way by picking any of these. Jehora or binlor, however would make EM impossible, and you'd have to swap either GG or TT for them, and I can't see that as worth it for most classes.
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Re: The new "metagame" - Perfect Profiles for Classes

Postby gjaustin on Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:58 pm

Unlocking all the second tier classes was assumed, since they don't come with glyphs. Not unlocking the Witch was also assumed. I also disagree that you need to unlock GG and TT for the monster classes.

For Half-Dragon, you want GG anyway so you just have to give up TT. There isn't a lot of room to regen fight the final boss, so the poison isn't as critical. All you need is another deity to convert to so you can use your potions. Besides, I'm 100% sure I got all 3 of my wins without TT in the first place.

For Gorgon, you get GG and TT anyway in Naga City. Since you have the Agnostic's Collar, you can still grab what you need.

As for the Vampire, I've beaten his dungeon Purist. I'm not worried about deity selection :)

I wonder if unlocking a monster also unlocks its boss equivalent? If that's the case, I'd say unlocking Sorcerer is actually a mistake. Not having to fight Bleaty makes things even more consistent.



As for needing GG to unlock Dracul, is that confirmed? I've seen just about everyone else in my current game, so I'd be surprised if that was actually the case.
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Re: The new "metagame" - Perfect Profiles for Classes

Postby gjaustin on Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:59 pm

It also just occurred to me that unlocking Warlord is probably good for the Half-Dragon as well. Since he eats Goos alive.
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Re: The new "metagame" - Perfect Profiles for Classes

Postby Lujo on Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:50 pm

gjaustin wrote:Unlocking all the second tier classes was assumed, since they don't come with glyphs. Not unlocking the Witch was also assumed. I also disagree that you need to unlock GG and TT for the monster classes.

For Half-Dragon, you want GG anyway so you just have to give up TT. There isn't a lot of room to regen fight the final boss, so the poison isn't as critical. All you need is another deity to convert to so you can use your potions. Besides, I'm 100% sure I got all 3 of my wins without TT in the first place.

For Gorgon, you get GG and TT anyway in Naga City. Since you have the Agnostic's Collar, you can still grab what you need.

As for the Vampire, I've beaten his dungeon Purist. I'm not worried about deity selection :)

I wonder if unlocking a monster also unlocks its boss equivalent? If that's the case, I'd say unlocking Sorcerer is actually a mistake. Not having to fight Bleaty makes things even more consistent.



As for needing GG to unlock Dracul, is that confirmed? I've seen just about everyone else in my current game, so I'd be surprised if that was actually the case.


For me TT's poison was what made my Dragon Isles wins possible in the first place, apart from the Palladin win obv In fact, not so obviously, as on my old profile I've been stuck on 2 wins for ages and won it in the end with a TT Paladin (never tried one before). And that gave me the idea for all this, really, I figured out that I'd have an easier time playing the game If I never got stuck with potions in the shops and if I had TT every game.

I'm not sure I could done Dragon Isles any other way, really. And combining TT poison with lemisi stomps anything and everything, provided you're not being mana burned. I initially didn't plan on unlocking GG for this at all, figuring I could probably do all this with TT alone, and I can't remember why I unlocked GG, but it became a habit...


And every map "direction" seems to work like this - you need to unlock the first guy to have the second guy start apearing. Or so it seems.
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Re: The new "metagame" - Perfect Profiles for Classes

Postby gjaustin on Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:24 pm

I'd agree with you on the direction deities if I hadn't seen Binlor, Earthmother, and Dracul in my current profile, despite only unlocking TT and GG. So, at a minimum, one of the gods doesn't work that way (Binlor). I'm really hoping Dracul is like that too.

As for Dragon Isles, at least there are still multiple strategies. Taurog and Dracul work quite well for their 15% magic resist boons.
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Re: The new "metagame" - Perfect Profiles for Classes

Postby gjaustin on Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:42 pm

I've started on my Vampire profile (and named it Edward for kicks).

I went with Taurog, GG, and Dracul. I'd rather have Pactmaker than GG, but I'm not willing to risk searching for it and not finding it, plus GG gives me a fair bit more flexibility with other classes.

Itemwise, so far I've just unlocked Gloves of Midas and Agnostic's Collar. I intend to unlock the Trisword as well.

I expect to beat the Crypt with some combination of Priest, Paladin, Thief, and Rogue. I shouldn't even need to unlock Dragon Shield to pull that off.
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Re: The new "metagame" - Perfect Profiles for Classes

Postby Lujo on Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:24 pm

How will you survive GG with lifesteal? Joining him while not remembering that I have lifesteal must've screwed over more of my runs than all other obstacles in the game combined. It was a big part why I avoided him all togather (not that I overused lifesteal, it was just that he screws you over for stuff you pick up on a whim, because they're there and cheap).
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Re: The new "metagame" - Perfect Profiles for Classes

Postby gjaustin on Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:07 pm

Lujo wrote:How will you survive GG with lifesteal? Joining him while not remembering that I have lifesteal must've screwed over more of my runs than all other obstacles in the game combined. It was a big part why I avoided him all togather (not that I overused lifesteal, it was just that he screws you over for stuff you pick up on a whim, because they're there and cheap).


I won't :(

But enough people told me that he's required to unlock Dracul, that I didn't want to mess around with trying to get Dracul otherwise.
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