Redundant glyphs

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Redundant glyphs

Postby Sidestepper on Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:07 pm

I've noticed the devs talking a lot about pruning, so maybe it's time to talk about what glyphs we need and which ones just legacies from the alpha.

GETINDARE/WEYTWUT/BYSYPS: The net effect of all of these glyphs is that they let you end fights one turn earlier (and BYSYPS doesn't even always do that). I don't think we really need three of these. If I had to pick one, I'd go with WEYTWUT because it has three separate and useful functions (combat advantage, xp, positioning).

IMAWAL/WEYTWUT/WONAFYT: All three of these give you extra experience. WEYTWUT has additional uses, but WONAFYT doesn't offer anything that IMAWAL doesn't do better. And, as a lot of us have been arguing since forever, WONAFYT's primary effect is less than worthless.
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Re: Redundant glyphs

Postby gjaustin on Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:11 pm

BYSYPS is still kind of nice for a Wizard. I'd be happy to see it and GETINDARE merged though.

I don't think the overlap between IMAWAL and WEYTWUT is really significant. I still found myself using WEYTWUT before the most recent change.

As for WONAFYT it needs to do something like permanently reduce resistances to be good enough. Alternatively, giving it a Wicked Guitar like effect would be great!
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Re: Redundant glyphs

Postby Sidestepper on Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:17 pm

gjaustin wrote:I don't think the overlap between IMAWAL and WEYTWUT is really significant. I still found myself using WEYTWUT before the most recent change.



Oh, I agree. The problem isn't IMAWAL/WEYTWUT, it's IMAWAL/WONAFYT and WEYTWUT/WONAFYT. WONAFYT just doesn't offer anything unique. It might be okay if it grabbed the nearest (level+1) monster, but I'm still not really sold on that idea. By mid-level you're looking for (level+2) monsters, or even (level+3) monsters that belong to weak monster types. And at low levels, you have to explore anyway, so I'm not convinced it's doing much for the player.
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Re: Redundant glyphs

Postby Darvin on Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:19 pm

A wicked guitar effect... select one random monster of equal or lower level to yourself, bring it to you, and raise its level by one. That... could actually work.

I do agree that WONAFYT, GETINDARE, and BYSSEPS need to be addressed since their role and applicability is very narrow compared to other glyphs. WEYTWUT is fine, and the only tweak I'd advocate at this point is lowering its mana cost. The only thing preventing dropping the cost down to 5 or 6 is that this would make its superiority to GETINDARE more obvious than it is now. The fact is, GETINDARE is just a cheaper and less versatile WEYTWUT, it needs a change.
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Re: Redundant glyphs

Postby Sidestepper on Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:29 pm

Darvin wrote:A wicked guitar effect... select one random monster of equal or lower level to yourself, bring it to you, and raise its level by one. That... could actually work.


That would actually be really awesome, but then we introduce the problem of the Wicked Guitar being obsolete.

I do agree that WONAFYT, GETINDARE, and BYSSEPS need to be addressed since their role and applicability is very narrow compared to other glyphs. WEYTWUT is fine, and the only tweak I'd advocate at this point is lowering its mana cost. The only thing preventing dropping the cost down to 5 or 6 is that this would make its superiority to GETINDARE more obvious than it is now. The fact is, GETINDARE is just a cheaper and less versatile WEYTWUT, it needs a change.


I think that WEYTWUT and GETINDARE were roughly equal (and painfully redundant) before the recent change to slow. Now GETINDARE is just a consolation prize, and a source of mild irritation when in spawns in the same dungeon as WEYTWUT.

BYSYPS has always been kind of lame. I guess it has some utility when regen-fighting meatmen, but usually I'd rather just have WEYTWUT or even a fireball.
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Re: Redundant glyphs

Postby gjaustin on Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:43 am

Wicked Guitar would still be useful since you can control what it affects, unlike WONAFYT. It also works on monsters that are a higher level than you, allowing you to get even more bonus exp.
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Re: Redundant glyphs

Postby The Avatar on Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:47 am

Making WONAFYT randomize from only your level and the level above it might be better. That way you can't pump your popcorn with extra tiles, but you're guaranteed at least a level+1 kill if not a level+2 kill.
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Re: Redundant glyphs

Postby TigerKnee on Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:16 am

Big problem with Byssepps is that you can only cast it once per attack.

If it's your ONLY glyph, then Byssepps is pretty much worthless because generally the extra damage won't help.

On the other hand, if you have some other glyph to spend the rest of your mana on like Fireball/Halpmeh, then Byssepps is kind of redundant.

The only person who loves Byssepps is probably the Wizard and ONLY if he also has Halpmeh, because the -1 MP cost makes it super efficient and the Wizard has plenty of space for glyphs anyway.

It used to be kind of good on Monk but not really now.
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Re: Redundant glyphs

Postby The Avatar on Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:58 am

Hmm... Perhaps making it add 1 base damage per level? That could be useful at both early and later levels.
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Re: Redundant glyphs

Postby Darvin on Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:02 am

That solves the problem that attack bonus has become significantly less valuable than base attack, but it doesn't solve the problem that this is still a non-repeatable glyph that is thoroughly overshadowed by other more interesting options.
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