Unofficial Balance Suggestions Thread

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Re: Unofficial Balance Suggestions Thread

Postby q 3 on Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:42 pm

I do like the way Mana Leak works now, and so while I think it needs to be toned down I'd prefer that happen in a way that doesn't involve arbitrary limits on which spells it effects (especially when that just gimps the Wizard unnecessarily).

How about: Mana Leak reduces spell costs by -1, but permanently disables MP regeneration (or at least -1 to MP regen, so BLUDTOPOWA will put you at 0 HP/1 MP per tile). It's still powerful, but no longer hilariously broken for regen fighting - and since you'll generally want to save it for late in the game, it encourages staying with Mystera, which makes for an interesting strategic decision since Mystera's piety farmy-ness pulls you just as strongly in the direction of converting out. (I'd also delete the monster magic resistance increase, since that would be nearly impossible to deal with late in the game and Mystera really ought to be the designated BURNDAYRAZ deity.)

That also mitigates the free LEMMISI issue for Wizards, since they'll at least have to deal with the loss of MP regen even if HP regen (or +1 MP regen with BLUDTOPOWA) is still free. Change BICEPS to 3 MP / 45% bonus damage / 3% phys resist reduction, and that issue is solved as well (and I think that's a more balanced glyph anyhow).
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Re: Unofficial Balance Suggestions Thread

Postby Lujo on Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:46 pm

q 3 wrote:Change BICEPS to 3 MP / 45% bonus damage / 3% phys resist reduction, and that issue is solved as well (and I think that's a more balanced glyph anyhow).


Are you sure about this, the 3% part?

Fighting a Goo boss without heavy resists of your own still sort of feels hard even at 5%, for me.
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Re: Unofficial Balance Suggestions Thread

Postby xspeedballx on Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:50 pm

Not that it works ideally right now because of a few factors, but I think that is where non-traditional play may come in. The ideal would be to poke tower of goo periodically while leveling and exploring long before you are ready to attack him for real and reduce his resistance that way. Only problem is that around the time you can start surviving a hit from him you probably want to start engaging him. I think there might be something to be said for tower of goo to have more hp and less damage to allow for some more poke and go on him. Balanced of course.
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Re: Unofficial Balance Suggestions Thread

Postby q 3 on Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:51 pm

Physical combat with Tower of Goo should never be easy. ;) And remember that it's stacking, so you can start hitting him with resist-reducing attacks as soon as you're able to take a hit; 10 hits and he's already down from 75% to 45%, even with only 3% reduction per hit.
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Re: Unofficial Balance Suggestions Thread

Postby Gorgon on Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:58 pm

How about: Mana Leak reduces spell costs by -1, but permanently disables MP regeneration (or at least -1 to MP regen, so BLUDTOPOWA will put you at 0 HP/1 MP per tile). It's still powerful, but no longer hilariously broken for regen fighting - and since you'll generally want to save it for late in the game, it encourages staying with Mystera, which makes for an interesting strategic decision since Mystera's piety farmy-ness pulls you just as strongly in the direction of converting out. (I'd also delete the monster magic resistance increase, since that would be nearly impossible to deal with late in the game and Mystera really ought to be the designated BURNDAYRAZ deity.)


That's actually pretty nice, but in my opinion the problem is that Magic and Mana Leak's resistance boosts should be changed... Magic helps fireball users the most and Mana Leak helps physical-damage mages (since both PISORF and HALPMEH have low costs). Changing Mana Leak to 30% phys. resistance and Magic to 3+3 piety, adds 5% magic resistance would be ok, too.
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Re: Unofficial Balance Suggestions Thread

Postby The Avatar on Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:01 pm

30% Physical is HARSH! I think 20% if you want to go that route.
JakshdfFiha$#jaigb532i97fbnPKASN*@)sdjbau9a0)f+,Ahghs*hr)sk_sabdh^ujsbUA3{mvio/~dgffdsT^klndf,#ikon%(d

I speak chaos.
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Re: Unofficial Balance Suggestions Thread

Postby Lujo on Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:03 pm

q 3 wrote:Physical combat with Tower of Goo should never be easy. ;) And remember that it's stacking, so you can start hitting him with resist-reducing attacks as soon as you're able to take a hit; 10 hits and he's already down from 75% to 45%, even with only 3% reduction per hit.


Yes, but it's what speedball said, he hit's like a truck if you're resitless and at lower levels. I tested it out a bunch of times, and it wasn't working out the best (cost too much resources, it was still more worth to inves those in levels and just fireball him to death).

Having dwarves/humility users/humility using dwarves do it while exploring would be nice if boosted health was easy to regen at lover levels, but it's not so it sort of makes that also less worthwhile.

I say all this beacuse there is so few other phys resist stuff it could be used against - i'd just love it against the wraith boss, but he's got mana burn, so yeah...
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Re: Unofficial Balance Suggestions Thread

Postby Halion on Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:38 pm

A fairly subtle way to reduce the power of HALPME would be to increase it's mana cost, but increase the healing in line with it, so the mana to hp ratio remained the same (eg: 4mana for 4hp per level, instead of 3 for 3). This weakens it slightly, since a smaller cost is more efficient, both in how easily you can convert your mana to healing (mostly, there are the odd points of difference) and because it makes overhealing happen a bit more.

This dramatically reduces the impact of mana saving effects (Mana Leak, Wizard, Crystal Ball), however, since they will be proportionally reduced in impact. They still function beneficially, though, so the combo isn't broken, it is just reduced in strength.

This change is also quite elegant. The spell's flavour and simple mechanics are retained without change.
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Re: Unofficial Balance Suggestions Thread

Postby dislekcia on Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:15 am

Halion wrote:A fairly subtle way to reduce the power of HALPME would be to increase it's mana cost, but increase the healing in line with it, so the mana to hp ratio remained the same (eg: 4mana for 4hp per level, instead of 3 for 3). This weakens it slightly, since a smaller cost is more efficient, both in how easily you can convert your mana to healing (mostly, there are the odd points of difference) and because it makes overhealing happen a bit more.

This dramatically reduces the impact of mana saving effects (Mana Leak, Wizard, Crystal Ball), however, since they will be proportionally reduced in impact. They still function beneficially, though, so the combo isn't broken, it is just reduced in strength.

This change is also quite elegant. The spell's flavour and simple mechanics are retained without change.


Good thinking there. We're probably just going to up the cost of Halpme in general anyway though, at least that's what came out of our design meeting earlier :)
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Re: Unofficial Balance Suggestions Thread

Postby Lujo on Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:17 am

Hah, I'll soon run out of cheezy exploits, I sure hope you're ready with the dungeon nerfs :D
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