My thoughts about the game

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My thoughts about the game

Postby valcamo on Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:32 pm

Hi everyone, I am a new registered player and would like to share my thoughts about this game.

I bought it on the 10 of January and played all missions up to the hard levels.
I thought that the hard levels were too difficult, then with the update of the 14 January I started a new profile and found that the game was a little bit easier. Good.

Then the next update and the last one have made the game much harder.
This has prompted me to write this post.

In general, I think that the game is already too difficult and the developers should work toward making the game easier, not the opposite.

The best balance should be that all normal levels are winnable without preparations and hard levels are winnable with a bit of preparations.
Vicious levels: I don't know, haven't unlocked any so far, but it's fine that some level will be very hard, but these levels should be completely optional (ie: the reward should be just an achievement)

Also, some classes are really not fun to play: for example the transmuter. I don't understand why mana regeneration from endiswal makes some monster to regenerate as well. Transmuters should have normal mana regeneration also.

Deities are a nuisance most of the time: some are straighforward like Taurog, others are very difficult.
There is no information about what actions will penalize you and what actions will award you some piety, also there is no information about what punishment the god will inflict you.
I think that these information should be displayed in the god panel, maybe only after the player has triggered that specified action.

So for example, the initial information for Taurog would be "Likes physic, hates magic", then when the user converts a glyphs for the first time after joining Taurog, the information will be updated with "+10 piety for glyph conversion".
The same for the first time the user casts a spell: "-2 piety for spellcasting"
And so on.

As for preparations, this deserves another topic, but please give back "Scout altar"... please

Just my 2 cents.
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Re: My thoughts about the game

Postby dislekcia on Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:40 pm

There will be a codex in the final game. It's not something we can add while balance is still in flux though - we already have a hard time maintaining simple tooltips as abilities and item stats change. Having to update an entire encyclopedia on the fly as well would be too much. But it is a good idea and has been brought up often on these forums :)

Scout Altar and Starting Piety are redundant preparations now that altar auras are in.
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Re: My thoughts about the game

Postby Darvin on Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:56 pm

In general, I think that the game is already too difficult and the developers should work toward making the game easier, not the opposite.

We do need to hear more from people like you to gauge the difficulty of the game. A lot of the players around here are veterans that can beat hard difficulty dungeons without breaking a sweat, so we really can't speak for the entire player-base. (Though if the hard levels get substantially easier, we'll probably need a new "very hard" intermediary difficulty between hard and vicious. The gap between the hard and vicious difficulty levels is already quite enormous. Way bigger than the jump from normal to hard)


Also, some classes are really not fun to play: for example the transmuter. I don't understand why mana regeneration from endiswal makes some monster to regenerate as well. Transmuters should have normal mana regeneration also.

The Transmuter was horrendously overpowered a couple versions back, which was why this change was made. This class has gone through several iterations already and probably will see many more.

Deities are a nuisance most of the time: some are straighforward like Taurog, others are very difficult.
There is no information about what actions will penalize you and what actions will award you some piety, also there is no information about what punishment the god will inflict you.

There is the Wiki, which is updated by fans regularly:
http://www.qcfdesign.com/wiki/DesktopDu ... =Full:Gods


Scout Altar and Starting Piety are redundant preparations now that altar auras are in.

Not redundant at all. The sparkles don't nearly add up to 25 piety, nor can they direct you as to the location of the alters so you can explore in their general direction. The whole point of these preparations was to start worship early or grab your first boon early without expending too much exploration resource. I can understand that you didn't like these preps (they certainly were too powerful, IMO) but the recent sparkles change is very minor by comparison and its role isn't even remotely similar to these two preps.

I should also add that scout player is now the only worthwhile temple preparation. Holy Diver, and Indulgence are largely worthless, and always have been. Now that piety is removed heretic might be marginally worthwhile, but your odds of actually finding the deity you want are abysmally low...
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Re: My thoughts about the game

Postby Sidestepper on Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:20 am

valcamo wrote:The best balance should be that all normal levels are winnable without preparations and hard levels are winnable with a bit of preparations.


This is about where the current balance is right now, but then again, we have all been playing this game for a long time and know the ropes. There are definitely some learning curve issues. In particular, I feel that the Fighter, which is intended to be a training wheel class, ends up teaching the player poor technique. I also think that WONAFYT gives the player the wrong idea about how to approach combat and exploration. I started a basic-level walkthrough thread that was intended for newcomers. Now that new profiles no longer crash the game, I might continue it.

Deities are a nuisance most of the time: some are straighforward like Taurog, others are very difficult.
There is no information about what actions will penalize you and what actions will award you some piety, also there is no information about what punishment the god will inflict you.
I think that these information should be displayed in the god panel, maybe only after the player has triggered that specified action.


Deities are very hard to master, probably the last major game mechanic that most players learn. I recommend ignoring them completely for the first few games. As for having giving the player more information about the preferences of the gods, the devs have already stated that they wanted mystery and experimentation to be an integral part of deities. Most likely, we will all just have to be content with the wiki.
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Re: My thoughts about the game

Postby Darvin on Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:23 am

The best balance should be that all normal levels are winnable without preparations and hard levels are winnable with a bit of preparations.

I'd add that every single hard-difficulty level in the game has been beaten purist. Heck, most vicious levels have been done purist...
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Re: My thoughts about the game

Postby booooooze on Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:02 am

Sidestepper wrote:Deities are very hard to master, probably the last major game mechanic that most players learn. I recommend ignoring them completely for the first few games. As for having giving the player more information about the preferences of the gods, the devs have already stated that they wanted mystery and experimentation to be an integral part of deities. Most likely, we will all just have to be content with the wiki.


Ignore them completely? Nah, just worship Taurog and smash everything the first few games. :)

(I should probably start a fresh kingdom, just to see what it looks like from that side.)
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Re: My thoughts about the game

Postby The Avatar on Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:46 am

Vicious levels may have been done purist, but it is the most tedious process on the planet. Not kidding.

But yeah, this game has a fairly steep beggining learning curve. You go from levels with 1 random boss, where you have to use all your potions to beat, to a level with a random boss AND a pumped up boss. And since you already have to blow your potions on the random one, the unrand screws you over.

IMO this is where puzzles should come in. What better way to teach mechanics (and gods) then puzzles that force you to use them. Another thing is classes. The starter pack teaches you a class, and a mechanic. Why not do this with harder to learn classes?
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Re: My thoughts about the game

Postby Crawly McCrawlsa on Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:57 am

A regen fighting puzzle.
A puzzle for each god.
(these will probably be long, but don't need to go over EVERY boon. Just most of them would be recommended)
A puzzle with multiple items to purchase, but you need the right combo to complete it succesfully.
(like, 3 rooms, each closes off when you complete it. A choice of 3 items in each room, can only buy one. Only one will assure victory against the monster in front of you.)
A puzzle that utilizes the special abilities of each class to achieve victory.

So many awesome puzzles!
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Re: My thoughts about the game

Postby rwfish1947 on Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:47 am

I just bought the game a couple of weeks ago too and I agree that the game ought to start out easier. If you want to sell this to new players, you can't overload the up front difficulty. I also agree with the comments about providing in-game info on the Gods on a as-learned basis. I admit that I am new, but I have found the gods so frustrating that I avoid those that I have unlocked. It is way too frustrating for a new player to be going along OK and then get slammed by a god for some unknown reason which is too confusing to remember for next time. Saying the player has to rely on some outside cheat sheet is BS. Remember that you want to SELL this game to a lot of new players.

I also think that at a beginner levels, you might consider placing critical resources within a reasonable proximity of the player's staring point so as not to burn all of the recovery points just trying to find items that allow one to attack higher level opponents.

I know this is a beta so I don't know if this is flux, but I don't see why my opponent pieces seem to recover at a faster rate than I can handle. So instance, Why, if I get poisoned, I can't recover health whereas If I apply poison to an opponent and walk away, he seems to recover at a normal pace. His status window reflects nothing about poison status.

Similarly, why does LEMSKI (?) recover the opponent piece in addition to mine? Seems to destroy a lot of its potential.

In summation, I don't use gods, don't use poison, and never attack anything I can't beat without moving.
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Re: My thoughts about the game

Postby harfatum on Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:50 am

The piety sparkles give you one each, so with three altars you have 24... but you're likely to lose a good portion of that to walls.

The Heretic prep gets less good when you have unlocked Pactmaker. Pactman is mostly useless unless you already have a god, and you'll be seeing him 1/3 of the time. Pre-desecration of one of the other gods leaves you with just one god choice, making it more likely that you won't have any gods that can help you.
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