Dwarf Fortress

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Re: Dwarf Fortress

Postby Darvin on Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:16 am

I only find it an issue with level 1 characters, where HP rounding can be a big deal and battles are often are won and lost by a single HP.
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Re: Dwarf Fortress

Postby SnapDragon on Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:50 am

Devs should find a way to make "strategic unlocks" as useless as possible.

Part of the fun of the game consists in unlocking things.

There should be more incentives in unlocking, for example: the bank preparation is increased by 1 gold for each 4 classes that completes a level (I just made up the number, it could be 1 per 10 classes).


+1000000! I feel like shouting this out every time I see people seriously discussing "strategic unlocking". The game should NOT support (let alone be balanced around!) that broken style of play. It's just a bad idea to have unlocks that a) are optional, b) are permanent, and c) have permanent downsides...

And like you said, it's easy to fix, if you just gate the hardest content on unlocking all the gods/classes/etc. (ie, remove the "optional" part.)
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Re: Dwarf Fortress

Postby The Avatar on Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:06 am

But then you'd have to complete every quest just to get the Dragon Shield. That's devastating. Now how am I supposed to play a good paladin?

The thing is, no matter how promising the unlock, you will always need a VERY specific strategy to beat vicious. Unless every item appeals to every type of character and is always useful, there will always be reasons to not take certain items. Of course if vicious was reasonable, then I would be fine with unlocking items.

I personally think a vicious nerf should be incoming. Instead of them buffing the dungeons with more magic res. I mean, hard dungeons are soooooo much easier than they used to be. (Anyone remember the old deep swamp? How about 900 hp evolvia with the same 97 damage output.) Now the leap between them is so incredibly huge, that it requires an obscene amount of scumming. People don't like to scum, so they just create profiles that require less scumming. Gating vicious to everything done requirements would just serve to frustrate as you randomize useless gods and items for your specific strategy. As you waste time and money.
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Re: Dwarf Fortress

Postby q 3 on Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:10 am

Strategic unlocks are a symptom, not the problem. There isn't a single thing that you can do on a limited unlock profile that you can't also do on a fully unlocked profile - you just need a lot of luck, or a lot of time to scum.

The problem is poor balance, and pointing out poorly balanced game elements (too strong, too weak, too niche) is one of the main reasons to have a public beta in the first place. It's somewhat frustrating that testing specific combinations requires either a lot of scumming or creating specialized profiles, when in a beta test you really should have more control over what game elements are present in any given playthrough, but we work with what we have.
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Re: Dwarf Fortress

Postby The Avatar on Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:40 am

YES! I could not agree more with what you just said. So, so true...
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Re: Dwarf Fortress

Postby Abraxas on Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:56 am

The Avatar wrote:But then you'd have to complete every quest just to get the Dragon Shield. That's devastating. Now how am I supposed to play a good paladin?


You do realize that if you need the Dragon Shield to play a good paladin, then there's clearly something wrong with the design of the Dragon Shield and/or the paladin?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the vicious dungeons are supposed to be on the far end of the challenge spectrum. They're supposed to be the hardest of dungeons, so it should be expected that the player can clear everything before then before taking them on. At the very most, a paladin should only "need" the Dragon Shield to clear other vicious dungeons.
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Re: Dwarf Fortress

Postby Darvin on Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:00 am

You do realize that if you need the Dragon Shield to play a good paladin, then there's clearly something wrong with the design of the Dragon Shield and/or the paladin?

As of the current version, Dragon Shield and Crystal Ball are about on equal standing. The big reason Dragon Shield is better is that you still have a chance of the crystal ball appearing in a shop if you prep it.

Paladin can take any hard level purist. On levels with physical resist issues, prepping a RBS usually solves his problems. He's just such a balanced class, and his ability to ignore the downsides of GG means he has one of the best class/deity combos in the game.
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Re: Dwarf Fortress

Postby The Avatar on Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:16 am

He doesn't need it, it's just helpful. Very Helpful.

Still, with all the balance and nerfing of late, We'll soon run out of good strategies.
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Re: Dwarf Fortress

Postby subanark on Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:57 am

Apply the same logic to items as I did with the gods. Every store picks from all sellable items in the game. If it picks an item you haven't unlocked, the shop doesn't appear.

The other option is to allow the player to black list any item they unlock.
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Re: Dwarf Fortress

Postby The Avatar on Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:54 pm

I think they need God Mode. It would be like wizard mode for Crawl. Spawn any item or god or monster.
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