Ideas: More than a dozen new classes with unique abilities

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Ideas: More than a dozen new classes with unique abilities

Postby fall_ark on Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:57 am

A sleuth of new classes that aims to provide variety to the playing style and hopefully interesting mechanics.

I aim to have one new class for every existing class. Tier 1 class changes game mechanics. Tier 2 class (usually) offers a class-unique boost to existing glyphs. Tier 3 class offers an alternative boost to Tier 3 glyphs. -- They are obviously not balanced, but might provide some interesting ideas for the devs and for you guys. Food for thought. :)


Guild classes (Focus on Melee)


Tier 1: Plunderer

RAGTAG: Treat all equipment/non-glyph items as small items. Has only four item slots.
PILLAGE: Killing an Exp-worthy enemy yields 1 gold. Shop items costs 5 more gold.
POSITIVE: Killing a no-exp enemy recovers 1 Health per enemy level.

Remark: Opposite of Wizard class. Still too strong and might warrant lowered stats and/or another item slot decrease.


Tier 2: Gladiator

TAUNT: Starts with WONAFYT. Summoned Monster gets one level up with all benefits(can't stack, same effect to Wicked Guitar).
ART OF DEFENSE: Remaining Mana gives Physical & Magical Resistance.
ART OF OFFENSE: +1 base damage per level.

Remark: I was pondering upon the "Mana Resistance/Reduction" idea. A refreshing resistance that can't be lowered is definitely something strong, but something like "Enemy damages Mana first" can also provide an interesting spin on the mechanic. Decisions, decisions....


Tier 3: Sentinel/Defender/Guardian

PERFECT STANCE: Start with CYDSTEPP glyph. Gets Level * 2 Damage Reduction when Death Protection is active.
STAND THE GROUND: Immune to KNOCKBACK effect.
RESILIENCE: Being poisoned/mana burned/weakened/corroded gives you 1 Health per level.

Remark: While Warlord gets no-prerequisite CYDSTEPP casting, this class benefits from damage reduction that indirectly helps CYDSTEPP casting. I think there should be a few damage reduction classes, at least to give the new Dwarf something to combo off. Might be too strong early game though. Great synergy with the Really Big Sword.


Thief Den classes (Focus on Guile)


Tier 1: Hunter/Ranger/Archer

FIRST SHOT: Performs a Level * 2 damage Physical Attack against any new enemy before the first melee attack. Burning/Corrosive Strike applies.
LONG SHOT: Performs a Level * 1 damage Physical Attack to the enemy behind the one you are attacking.
TRAPPING: Physical attacks don't trigger Cowardly and Blinking.

Remark: Might be too much trouble for the mechanics. A plain "extra damage before every melee attack" might work too. -- Would that be good against Animated Armors?


Tier 2: Trickster

AMBUSH: Starts with WEYTWUT glyph. WEYTWUT lowers enemy resistance by 3% (does not lower 100% resistance).
CONFUSION: 20% dodge against Slowed enemy. / 20% damage bonus against Slowed enemy.
CHEATING DEATH: Enemy does not kills you if the damage suffered is less than your remaining Health + remaining Mana. Instead reduced to 1 Health and gets Mana burned.

Remark: Cheating Death is a bit weak. "Can only be killed while not mana burned. Otherwise gets mana burned" would be too strong especially for the already imbalanced Gnome though.... Or just reduces Mana, and only gets mana-burned when Mana reaches 0, or no mana-burn mechanism at all?

Tier 3: Conspirator/Schemer

PARALYSIS STRIKE: Starts with the APHEELSIK glyph, casting APHEELSIK also slows enemy.
OVERACHIEVER: Killing a higher level enemy removes Poison and Mana burn efects.
EGOMANIAC: Leveling up gives 20% Overheal.

Remark: No matter how hard I try the APHEELSIK boost always overlaps with the Trickster idea. Free Slow on Poison is very strong though, might need to lower Max Mana a bit or something.


Church classes (Focus on lolwut)

Tier 1: Necromancer

UNDEAD THRALL: Performs an extra physical attack of 1 damage per level (must <= remaining Mana) after a melee attack. (Applies even to Cowardly/Blink ?)
UNDEAD MASTER: Remaining Mana provides Damage Reduction (must <= level).
UNDEAD FRIEND: Ignores enemy ability "Undead".

Remark: Basically, another "reserving Mana makes you stronger" class. The abilities are mediocre but should be amazing in certain situations.


Tier 2: Exorcist

SPIRIT EXPERT: Has 10% inherent resistance for every ability the enemy has.
SPIRIT EATER: Always kills no-exp enemies. (Unless you got killed first, of course)
SPIRITED AWAY: Immune to Life Stealing. / Loses Mana instead of Health to Life Stealing.

Remark: Shoud only be imba against especially "nasty" enemies. Pretty fun I guess?

Tier 3: Defiler
(Unless Paladin's HALPMEH is buffed, this might be too strong. As of now Paladin is weaker than Sorcerer as a HALPMEH user until very late in the game.)

RAVENOUS DESIRE: Starts with the HALPMEH glyph. Using HALPMEH deals 1 point per level magic damage to all adjacent enemies. Does not kill. / deals 2 point per level magic damage to the last enemy attacked. Does not kill.
FOUL TOUCH: Killing an enemy gives a temporary Corrosive strike * enemy level. Wears off after melee attack.
ZEALOUS: Desecration gives 35 bonus piety instead of 25.

Remark: Well. Not that strong anyway. More of a gimmick.


Mage classes (Focus on Glyphs)


Tier 1: Archivist

CROSS REFERENCE: Starts with 8 Max Mana. Gains 2 extra Max Mana for every Glyph in your possession.
FIELD STUDY: Killing an enemy with a Glyph yields 2 Mana.
BOOKWORM: 1 Attack Bonus, 1 Health Bonus and 1 Mana Bonus are replaced by 1 Conversion Seal, 1 Compression Seal and 1 Transmutation Seal.

Remark: I think an anti-conversion class might be an interesting idea...


Tier 2: Ki Master

KI STRIKE: Starts with the PISORF glyph. PISORF deals 30% knockback damage when enemy is knocked into each other or nothing.
KI RECOVERY: Every 20%(25%?) percent damage of your Max Health gives 1 Mana. Resets after each level-up.
KI BALANCE: +2 base damage per level but starts with -50% attack bonus.

Remark: Of course we need a PISORF class! Instead of directly boosting the glyph strength, I'm leaning towards the "Ki Balance" ability, since this provides variety in play style (Human for good melee damage, Orc for higher PISORF damage, Elf for more PISORF casts, etc. etc.). Maybe.


Tier 3: NOT YET READY
(As of now BLUDTOPOWA is simply too strong for the Bloodmage to have an advantage. Unless the non-Bloodmage version of BLUDTOPOWA is nerfed, I don't really see how I can make a new class here.)
Remark: Nothing.


Special classes (Focus on whatever it is that special classes do)


Class: Theologian

PILGRIM: Guarantees an altar spawning beside the dungeon entrance.
POLYTHEIST: Can worship 2(3?) gods at the same time. Can't convert. Desecration gives only 15 piety. (lower top piety?)
SCHOLAR: Drinking a potion gives 2 exp. The Pact Maker never spawns.

Remark: Let's play the God game! Broken or not (because Binlor, damn), this should be fun. -- Incidentally, "Pilgrimage" would make an awesome Church preparation. Replace Holy Diver with this please!


Class: Spellsword

Burning Strike: Starts with the BYSSEPS glyph. BYSSEPS also changes your melee attack to magical damage. Adds burning.
Shadow Strike: Starts with the GETINDARE glyph. GETINDARE also gives you 20% dodge and dodge prediction. Wears off when First Strike wears off.
Infusing Strike: Starts with a Strength Potion. Strength Potions are twice as effective (giving Mana * 2 damage).

Remark: Who doesn't like old Strength Potion shenanigans? Shadow Strike is largely useless because normally First Strike is only used when you are not in danger of being attacked in the first place.


Other ideas for class abilities:

IMAWAL/ENDISWAL combo, or simply IMAWAL/ENDISWAL, downgrades the enemy one level but gives enemy 100% magic resistance.

Now that LEMMISI is the only glyph without class buff, I'm wondering what could be added to this....Extra Mana?
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Re: Ideas: More than a dozen new classes with unique abiliti

Postby The Avatar on Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:26 am

Wow...

While I don't think the devs are keen on adding too much, these are still great ideas! The Ki Focus ability needs to be added to the gorgon. Then death gaze will be better. Much better.
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I speak chaos.
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Re: Ideas: More than a dozen new classes with unique abiliti

Postby Fran on Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:42 pm

Impressive, to say the least.
If the game is modable enough, there would be no problem in making those classes come true.
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Re: Ideas: More than a dozen new classes with unique abiliti

Postby Darvin on Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:02 pm

Given what the devs have said publicly on the topic of mods, it seems virtually everything is hard-coded.
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Re: Ideas: More than a dozen new classes with unique abiliti

Postby gjaustin on Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:52 pm

Darvin wrote:Given what the devs have said publicly on the topic of mods, it seems virtually everything is hard-coded.


Yeah, I get the impression that we won't even be able to change the numbers on existing abilities, much less create new ones.

It's a shame they didn't take an event-based XML approach. For example:

<Buff name='Lifesteal' type='variable'><OnHit event='lifesteal'><Health target='player' value='MIN(%value%, %damagedealt%)'/></OnHit></Buff>

<Diety name='Dracul'>
<Boon name='Blood Hunger' cost='10' reusable='5'><ApplyBuff name='Lifesteal' value='5'/></Boon>
<Listener event='lifesteal'><Piety value='2'/></Lifesteal>
</Diety>

<Diety name='Earthmother'>
<Listener event='lifesteal'><Piety value='-10'/></Listener>
<OnWorship><Piety value='5'/><Spawn name='IMAWAL' type='glyph' hasConversionValue='false' /></OnWorship>
<Punishment><ApplyBuff name='Corrosion' value='5'/></Punishment>
</Diety>
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Re: Ideas: More than a dozen new classes with unique abiliti

Postby Darvin on Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:14 pm

Definitely; it's well-worth the effort to make software data-driven.
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Re: Ideas: More than a dozen new classes with unique abiliti

Postby fall_ark on Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:54 am

The Avatar wrote:Wow...

While I don't think the devs are keen on adding too much, these are still great ideas! The Ki Focus ability needs to be added to the gorgon. Then death gaze will be better. Much better.


I guess the recent few updates give me a lot of ideas. Damage reduction, Burning goes out etc. There really is still large amounts of potential in new gaming styles even based on the current mechanics...

gjaustin wrote:
Darvin wrote:Given what the devs have said publicly on the topic of mods, it seems virtually everything is hard-coded.


Yeah, I get the impression that we won't even be able to change the numbers on existing abilities, much less create new ones.

It's a shame they didn't take an event-based XML approach. For example:


Wait, it isn't? I always figured games like these are very modular....pity then.
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Re: Ideas: More than a dozen new classes with unique abiliti

Postby dislekcia on Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:33 pm

gjaustin wrote:
Darvin wrote:Given what the devs have said publicly on the topic of mods, it seems virtually everything is hard-coded.


Yeah, I get the impression that we won't even be able to change the numbers on existing abilities, much less create new ones.

It's a shame they didn't take an event-based XML approach. For example:

<Buff name='Lifesteal' type='variable'><OnHit event='lifesteal'><Health target='player' value='MIN(%value%, %damagedealt%)'/></OnHit></Buff>

<Diety name='Dracul'>
<Boon name='Blood Hunger' cost='10' reusable='5'><ApplyBuff name='Lifesteal' value='5'/></Boon>
<Listener event='lifesteal'><Piety value='2'/></Lifesteal>
</Diety>

<Diety name='Earthmother'>
<Listener event='lifesteal'><Piety value='-10'/></Listener>
<OnWorship><Piety value='5'/><Spawn name='IMAWAL' type='glyph' hasConversionValue='false' /></OnWorship>
<Punishment><ApplyBuff name='Corrosion' value='5'/></Punishment>
</Diety>


Yeah, um... You still have to have something that can understand all of that XML ;)

We're not idiots, it's all class- and property-based. It's just that exposing it to a data driven system like that would take huge amounts of time and wouldn't make any of the current balance work any easier in the slightest: In the cases where we have to change a number, it's just as easy to change that in a constructor call in the source; In the cases where we'd have to rewrite a gameplay system we'd have to open up the source anyway.
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Re: Ideas: More than a dozen new classes with unique abiliti

Postby gjaustin on Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:01 pm

Oh, I never meant to imply that you weren't capable of doing that. I was just providing an example to the other posters of what I was thinking would be awesome.

But the primary advantage of doing it that way (beyond modding) is that pushing out balance changes is faster and takes less bandwidth. For example, you could nerf the Vampire on Monday without recompiling anything and then push out the fix with a <5 KB download!

And I don't blame you for not wanting to write the XML parser. I wrote one of my own for my (incomplete) game engine a few years ago, and it was a giant pain. We're just all sad that it sounds like we're going to have decompile your code to mod it. :)

Which, depending on the exact terms of the license, may be illegal and/or bad form...
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Re: Ideas: More than a dozen new classes with unique abiliti

Postby Darvin on Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:51 pm

Yeah, um... You still have to have something that can understand all of that XML ;)

We're not idiots, it's all class- and property-based. It's just that exposing it to a data driven system like that would take huge amounts of time and wouldn't make any of the current balance work any easier in the slightest

At this stage in development, I'd expect it's much too late to make the system fully data-driven. If this had been done in earlier stages of development that'd be another matter entirely (personally, I find the effort to make everything data driven at the earliest point in development pays for itself many times over), but it's definitely too late now.


In the cases where we have to change a number, it's just as easy to change that in a constructor call in the source

Now, as for just loading constants from an XML file into a hash-table... you really don't have excuses. There are lots of libraries out there that do most of the work for you. I've written XML-parsing stuff before on multiple occasions (most recently on a positively ancient legacy system where the most sophisticated "tool" at my disposal is string manipulation), it's not hard and if you're just dumping it into a hash-table it really shouldn't take more than an hour to whip up.

I'd also add that this would finally give you accurate patch-notes. A simple file-compare against the last version would trivially identify what had changed.
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