The One True Path

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Re: The One True Path

Postby Sidestepper on Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:26 am

Deities have always been the hardest part of the game to balance, and adding another layer of complexity to them just aggravates the problem. Personally, I'd rather have the prep just plant the requested altar near the entrance, forgo the penalties altogether. After all, it's a preparation.
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Re: The One True Path

Postby The Avatar on Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:49 pm

And it takes up one of your altars. Now THAT is how you reduce scumming.
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I speak chaos.
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Re: The One True Path

Postby Ara on Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:08 pm

Off topic as always: I don't know what was your favorite god in alpha. Mine was the Earthmother: the Stone Form was hard to get at level 1, and some runs failed miserably in that attempt, but the reward was more than worth it (overpowered). It made hardcore runs like Rogue in Factory feel like a ride in the park.

My anger towards the current earthmother state is probably driven by the nostalgia of her glorious past. :roll:
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Re: The One True Path

Postby gjaustin on Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:10 pm

So with all the recent changes, Berserkers are pretty uber. They were always good, but were very situational. Now they just murder things.

I've suggested this before, but I'd love to see their magic resist go down to 25% and their spell casting penalty drop to +1.


@Ara - My hatred for Earthmother in the alpha was only surpassed by my hatred for Mystera.

I actually really like beta Earthmother. Everyone always forgets the free IMAWAL boon she spawns which can get you 30+ bonus experience. They only reason she's weak is that her good boon gives damage reduction, the least useful boost in the game. Making her spawn a few less plants would be nice too, but not critical.
Last edited by gjaustin on Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The One True Path

Postby Ara on Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:20 pm

Oh yeah, alpha Mystera... Feeling good in a run, seeing Mystera altar, thinking: "hey, I could rock harder!", just to get heartlessly crushed in pieces by her. The same still happens with GG: I go for Enlightenment, but after I get it I can't maintain piety above 0 and get stomped.
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Re: The One True Path

Postby Darvin on Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:39 pm

Give him a Main Gauche for +5 damage AND 5 DR, and an Armor for +15 to both resists, then add 2 boons.

Agreed; especially once you've unlocked the bank upgrades inventory space is at such a premium that Taurog's items are sub-par since they can't be converted easily when their usefulness expires.

Mine was the Earthmother: the Stone Form was hard to get at level 1, and some runs failed miserably in that attempt, but the reward was more than worth it (overpowered)

Oh yeah; Alpha EM was the gambler's Pactmaker. Absolutely a kick-ass deity if you could pull it off.

Oh yeah, alpha Mystera... Feeling good in a run, seeing Mystera altar, thinking: "hey, I could rock harder!", just to get heartlessly crushed in pieces by her. The same still happens with GG: I go for Enlightenment, but after I get it I can't maintain piety above 0 and get stomped.

Beta GG has the highest learning curve of any deity by a longshot. You need to know when to go for Enlightenment, and when to get the hell out of his religion.

As for alpha Mystera, the trick with her was to use all your healing potions fighting the boss (or first boss, as the case may be) and then worship her. You'd also need BLUDTUPOWA if you had any unexplored tiles left. Her biggest issue was that health-based resources were effectively worthless after you begin worship, but if you expend them first you were fine. Providing a whopping +15 MP, she was worthwhile even if only just to amplify your mana potions at the last minute.
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Re: The One True Path

Postby gjaustin on Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:04 pm

Darvin wrote:
Give him a Main Gauche for +5 damage AND 5 DR, and an Armor for +15 to both resists, then add 2 boons.

Agreed; especially once you've unlocked the bank upgrades inventory space is at such a premium that Taurog's items are sub-par since they can't be converted easily when their usefulness expires.


I don't know. Right now Skullpicker is actually really good if you can get the 20 piety at level 1 or 2. And dropping down to only 2 items might make the death protection boon too good.

I'd be happy if the 20% damage item came back and have the boon (Unstoppable Fury?) be changed to only require 3 items.

Alternatively, making the Sword 10 damage again (40 piety?) and making the Shield cost less piety (15?) would do a lot to make the slots they take more worth it.
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Re: The One True Path

Postby gjaustin on Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:02 am

gjaustin wrote:
Leeshy wrote:Does anybody actually still use the Church preparations?
I mean if you think u need a special god to beat a level, it's probably because you think it's quite hard.
Why would u want to make it even harder by giving the monsters buffs...?
I actually liked the previous preparations much better. Haven't used any since the update...


The only two I use are Extra Altar and Binlor. The former because it has no drawbacks and the latter only in Labyrinth and Shifting Passages.


I wanted to add to this. I've started using JJ with an Orc Rogue. It lets you prep Sensation Stone instead of having to worry about Namtar's Ward. The loss of the inventory slot hurts, but ever since the change to Apothecary, I spend so much gold on potions that I rarely fill all 6 slots anyway.

And knowing you'll have a WEYTWHUT when you go in the level can be a big deal too. You can start building yourself an experience farm early on. Plus, I just did Labyrinth and used it and the knockback mace to clear myself a path. It was a good thing too, because I got a really bad level gen. The map was split in two down the middle, and there was one long path, with no branches, along the entire left and top edges that connected them.
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Re: The One True Path

Postby Darvin on Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:01 am

I don't know. Right now Skullpicker is actually really good if you can get the 20 piety at level 1 or 2. And dropping down to only 2 items might make the death protection boon too good.

I'd take the Fine Sword, which I can convert later to free up inventory space if needed. The extra 1 base damage at the cost of 1 MP and an unconvertable inventory slot and expending piety just isn't worth it.

Taurog's sword and shield, by their nature, will always be really strong if you pick them at lower levels. Same can be said of JJ's boost health or GG's humility. I think it's fine to have some boons that perform well at lower levels, but right now Taurog's only stellar boon is Unstoppable Fury.
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