Extra bosses in dungeons: Why?

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Extra bosses in dungeons: Why?

Postby GG Crono on Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:59 pm

Maybe I'm just really bad at this game. But in dungeons like the Labyrinth and Shifting Passages, which have an extra boss monster in them besides the "main" boss, it seems that I can just barely scare up the resources to defeat the MAIN boss, let alone the extra one. And that's assuming I don't get Frank or Super Meat Man or something similarly difficult.

So I just have to wonder, why do they need to be there? I've been out of the loop for a few patches. Were there significant numbers of people complaining that this game wasn't hard enough?
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Re: Extra bosses in dungeons: Why?

Postby gjaustin on Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:08 pm

They were added to reduce scumming by making the dungeon more random. The bosses were weakened significantly when the additional ones were added.

Of course, they also made Bleaty have a chance to be one of the random ones, which is terrible. Because Bleaty is terrible.
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Re: Extra bosses in dungeons: Why?

Postby GG Crono on Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:13 pm

I did not know if it were possible to encounter Bleaty in this context. I was hoping it was not so.

As for the bosses being weakened... well, I refer you to "maybe I'm just really bad at this game". :D
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Re: Extra bosses in dungeons: Why?

Postby gjaustin on Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:31 pm

Nah. The bosses were weakened, but I'd say the difficulty did increase overall.
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Re: Extra bosses in dungeons: Why?

Postby Ara on Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:50 pm

Labyrinth is for me the 2nd hardest of the "hard" dungeons after Gaan-Telet. Not because of bosses (well, Rex a bit: "Crouch goddamnit! Stop blocking the escape route!"), but because unexplored tiles aren't a reliable ressource (unless you get ENDISWAL or got lucky with many possible paths), along with a very restricted choice of monsters to kill. Also, most of the time, it prevents you from reaching vital glyphs (the worst are linear "labyrinths" with an early high monster blocking 2/3rd of the dungeon).

I remember when I didn't know that Shifting Passages was a "revealing" labyrinth and I was using IMAWAL alot, making lots of closed space: I killed my first Evolvia spamming WEYTWUT (the boss should have died from throwing up). It was hell. Now that I "xp catapult" (still using IMAWAL :twisted:), killing very few selected monsters to reach 6-7, going for bosses when only half of the walls are put, it's pretty easy.
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Re: Extra bosses in dungeons: Why?

Postby gjaustin on Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:37 pm

The trick to Labyrinth and Shifting Passages is to prep either the Knockback Mace or a Transmutation Scroll.

They're still annoying, but this helps prevent you from being completely locked in. I beat the new Binlor preparation would be a great choice too, since that guarantees you an ENDISWAL and his boons destroy walls too.
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Re: Extra bosses in dungeons: Why?

Postby Darvin on Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:15 pm

I find the difficulty on almost all the levels has been decreased because the main boss is substantially weaker, and most of the random bosses (even Bleaty if you pull the right glyphs) aren't nearly hard enough to make up the difference. Keep in mind that you get 50 gold after killing the first of the two bosses, meaning you can basically "buy out" every item you need at this time. Especially with the apothecary preparation, this makes winning straightforward.

As for Labyrinth, Rex is so weak to spellcasting now due to his lack of magic resistance and low HP that anyone other than a berserker should be able to trounce him just with fireballs and a mid-battle level-up. Shifting Passages is the only level I think is even arguably harder as a result of this change (Ick Swamp doesn't count; it got harder for an entirely different reason), and even then I'd be inclined to disagree.
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Re: Extra bosses in dungeons: Why?

Postby The Avatar on Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:09 pm

Yeah, things got easier. The original Evolvia had 900 hp or so, with all the normal abilities. That's harder than Horratio.

IMO, the two hardest dungeons are Ick and Labyrinth.

Ick, is more just me hating the plants. It's really not that hard.

As for the Labyrinth I can't stand when you get ENDISWALL, and that makes it almost impossible. Any hard dungeon that requires you to scum for a glyph or god should be changed.
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Re: Extra bosses in dungeons: Why?

Postby Darvin on Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:51 pm

Labyrinth is entirely possible without destroying walls. If you prep a bear mace, you're fine. Rex only has 309 HP now. If you're level 7, then it only takes 11 fireballs to kill him by pure magic. He's not a hard boss anymore.

Ick Swamp is the only hard-difficulty level I have any serious issues with.
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Re: Extra bosses in dungeons: Why?

Postby The Avatar on Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:10 pm

Oh! I thought it was 409!

Well then yeah, Ick sucks.
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