New Dwarves v. Old Dwarves, Paladins, and Magic Monsters.

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Re: New Dwarves v. Old Dwarves, Paladins, and Magic Monsters

Postby Darvin on Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:31 pm

I'd still say health is third place after attack damage and MP, but it's no longer a distant third now that we have some good options for it.
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Re: New Dwarves v. Old Dwarves, Paladins, and Magic Monsters

Postby The Avatar on Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:02 pm

Maybe I just love it cause I've played so many Vamps...

I dunno though. A dwarf Berserker with a sensation stone and a Vampiric Blade would be kinda like a Vamp who can raise resists. But still not as exaggerated as a Vamp.
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Re: New Dwarves v. Old Dwarves, Paladins, and Magic Monsters

Postby Darvin on Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:17 pm

Obviously if you're comboing off Dracul you want to raise max health (and the vamp just makes this ridiculous), but that strikes me as confirmation bias. The game still has a wide range of combos available, many of which favour attack or mana. Even with new Dracul I'd say health is third fiddle over attack damage and MP given all the other options we have.
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Re: New Dwarves v. Old Dwarves, Paladins, and Magic Monsters

Postby gjaustin on Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:15 pm

The Avatar wrote:Animated Armors, for example. What is so magical about a blade slashing you? Undead would make more sense than magic damage.


I like this change for a purely mechanical reason: Berserkers might be able to kill Indomitable now!



Everything else in your post I agree with 100%. I miss old Dwarves. I want to do a Dwarf Wizard with Fireheart!
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Re: New Dwarves v. Old Dwarves, Paladins, and Magic Monsters

Postby fall_ark on Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:01 am

The thing is, Conversion bonus of Damage Reduction is also an interesting concept, if done right.

Right now it's too useless late game and can be too strong early game, which is, of course, hard to balance. +Resistance would be fine, and suits the theme well, but again, that means we lose an interesting mechanic.

I think the problem right now is that we have too few races for too many solid and interesting ideas. -- No one would want to lose Attack/Mana/Health/Potions bonus, which means either we need new races to fit new ideas in (not gonna happen), or we should make "alternative" conversion bonuses available, so after a few quests or what not, every race has an alternative conversion concept. For example:

(We might even split Resistance into physical and magical)

Human: Attack / Extra Shop
Elf: Mana / Piety
Dwarf: Health / Resistance
Halfling: Health Potion / Dodge
Gnome: Mana Potion / Compression Scroll
Orcs: Damage / Damage Reduction
Goblin: Exp / Gold
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Re: New Dwarves v. Old Dwarves, Paladins, and Magic Monsters

Postby The Avatar on Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:18 am

Compression scroll? Err, why would you ever want that? Dodge would be either too good or not worth it, and shop is pretty useless, but could occasionally be good. I like races because they're so basic. Snazzing them up is not the way to go. If you want interesting things, go worship gods.
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Re: New Dwarves v. Old Dwarves, Paladins, and Magic Monsters

Postby gjaustin on Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:03 am

fall_ark wrote:The thing is, Conversion bonus of Damage Reduction is also an interesting concept, if done right


Actually, I disagree.

At their core, damage reduction and lifesteal are the same mechanic. There are subtle differences, but in the end they're the equivalent of giving monsters weakening.

I'd rather see the Dwarf get Health back and give Vampire lifesteal (120 for 1 lifesteal is probably fair).
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Re: New Dwarves v. Old Dwarves, Paladins, and Magic Monsters

Postby The Avatar on Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:41 am

That would be super unfair. You could stack such a massive amount of life steal, and you could still get high enough damage with a Tri-sword and other items.
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Re: New Dwarves v. Old Dwarves, Paladins, and Magic Monsters

Postby fall_ark on Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:07 am

The Avatar wrote:Compression scroll? Err, why would you ever want that? Dodge would be either too good or not worth it, and shop is pretty useless, but could occasionally be good. I like races because they're so basic. Snazzing them up is not the way to go. If you want interesting things, go worship gods.


Just some examples. Or we could only give Dwarf an alternative bonus. Or don't choose them if you don't like it. Simple really.

gjaustin wrote:
fall_ark wrote:The thing is, Conversion bonus of Damage Reduction is also an interesting concept, if done right


Actually, I disagree.

At their core, damage reduction and lifesteal are the same mechanic. There are subtle differences, but in the end they're the equivalent of giving monsters weakening.

I'd rather see the Dwarf get Health back and give Vampire lifesteal (120 for 1 lifesteal is probably fair).



And at their core Attack and Base Damage are also the same mechanic. In the end they're the equivalent of making monsters die faster. Also Burning and Corrosion, except one burns out and one does not. Just like Damage Reduction and Life Steal - one gives you extra HP, one doesn't.
Speaking of which, does Life Steal work against Undead and Lifeless monsters?

I would definitely *choose* Damage Reduction sometimes if that option is available. And I love more options. That's all I'm saying.
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Re: New Dwarves v. Old Dwarves, Paladins, and Magic Monsters

Postby Darvin on Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:14 am

Speaking of which, does Life Steal work against Undead and Lifeless monsters?

Yup; it softens the piety blow with Dracul when you fight them.
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