Unlocking Stuff 2

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Re: Unlocking Stuff 2

Postby gjaustin on Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:19 pm

q 3 wrote:200 conversion points for 1 level of lifesteal would probably be the lowest reasonably balanced value. (That's twice as strong as the initial Vampire was at level 10, but equal to the initial Vampire at level 5.)


Wait, the Vampire only got 1 Lifesteal for 40 conversion, didn't he? When I suggested 120 I was thinking he used to get 2 Lifesteal.

Amusingly, 200 was my first instinct until I over-thought it and tried to balance it with my incorrect recall of the past.
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Re: Unlocking Stuff 2

Postby Fran on Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:32 pm

The Avatar wrote:I like it more now...

And 110 could be reachable with a Tri-sword, Dwarven Gauntlets, and a preservance badge.


Well, you'd need Vampiric blade, Tri-sword, Dwarven gauntlets, Preservance badge and dracul.

Without using preps, there is no dependable way to achieve this so in general you'll have a reasonable lvl of lifesteal and damage.

Using preps, you can have two of those items and dracul, but still have to scum for two items.
Taking the healthdamage from prepping dracul is a disadvantage using lifesteal, otherwise adding dracul to your scumming list makes it less dependable.

You can reach a similiar level of DR with the way it is now, depending less on which items you get.
I got around 100 DR the last time I tried to get it as high as possible, even without using EM. Add the lifesteal if you worship dracul and you see that the combined value gets you way over 120.

With the DR you can level-catapult against highlvl enemies at lvl 1 as long as you reduce their damage to 0.
You can't do the same using lifesteal as you lack the HP to surivive a hit in the first place.

Also, you can just kill most bosses using magic without getting a hit so i don't see whats wrong with lifestealing the whole damage. At least it wouldn't be more broken than the way its now, especially because the overheal is capped (at least I couldn't get over 225 HP the last time I tried to overheal using lifesteal).
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Re: Unlocking Stuff 2

Postby The Avatar on Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:06 pm

The cap is 150% of your hp. How did you get 100 DR? Havendale Bridge?
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Re: Unlocking Stuff 2

Postby Lagmalix on Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:32 am

I've managed to get ~114 DR during a Gaantelet run. Took the Pactmaker boon that gives +10 CP and was lucky enough to find a secret room with 4 weapons. Add to that 1 bonus Sensation Stone and probably some high CP items at shops, don't really remember anymore.
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Re: Unlocking Stuff 2

Postby gjaustin on Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:10 am

I just got 92 DR and 4 levels of lifesteal in Gan'telet, so it's definitely possible.
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Re: Unlocking Stuff 2

Postby The Avatar on Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:45 am

I totally forgot about the pactmaker! So that's how people are reaching these outrageous levels of DR.
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Re: Unlocking Stuff 2

Postby Killdozer on Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:04 am

Murdus wrote:Fun fact: BOTH bosses now deal magic damage.

How did I miss that? /facepalm

Thanks, in any case; I owe you my first VHoS win. Orc Berserker, GG into Taurog (with a piety goats subdungeon), and a lucky Vampiric Blade made up for a lot of useless shops.
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Re: Unlocking Stuff 2

Postby Fran on Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:17 pm

The Avatar wrote:I totally forgot about the pactmaker! So that's how people are reaching these outrageous levels of DR.


Yeah. I used Pactmaker and the shield from Taurog in Nagacity *before* going down to the prayer room. You even get DR from two potions alone this way.
The other disadvantage of lifesteal would be that there is a huge gap between a few costly conversions and that many cheap conversions are almost continous in effect.
Supposing lifesteal would cost 120, getting 40 conversion doesn't change anything until you get the other 80 while by using the DR, the effect already takes place while you search for the other 80 conversion points.

But I'm wondering if the amount of DR is just a bug in the first place anyway; the tooltip on the vampire says that you'd get 3 DR for 90 CP while you get it for 40. Maybe they simply forgot to adress that.

Still, I'd like to see lifesteal a lot more because it has more flavor and even nerfs the broken vampireclass, even if it has the same cost for a similiar value.
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Re: Unlocking Stuff 2

Postby The Avatar on Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:14 pm

It says for 90! That's a bug...

But yeah, Vamps are not even Vamps. They're like golem/mechs with lifesteal as a lame excuse for making it a Vampire.
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Re: Unlocking Stuff 2

Postby Murdus on Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:55 pm

Killdozer wrote:
Murdus wrote:Fun fact: BOTH bosses now deal magic damage.

How did I miss that? /facepalm

Thanks, in any case; I owe you my first VHoS win. Orc Berserker, GG into Taurog (with a piety goats subdungeon), and a lucky Vampiric Blade made up for a lot of useless shops.


I'm just happy that my wall of text actually helped. ^^

The Avatar wrote:But yeah, Vamps are not even Vamps. They're like golem/mechs with lifesteal as a lame excuse for making it a Vampire.


THERE'S an idea for a new monster class.. Golems! DR for conversion, unable to gain additional resistances, instead, items that grant resistances, instead grant... I don't know, bonus HP? Bonus damage%? Would get rid of the stupid damage resistance thing on Vampires, -and- still give the devs room to experiment with it!

Also, have it unlocked by beating a Vicious version of the Rock Gardens 3 times.
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