Monster Classes!

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Re: Monster Classes!

Postby Hammerfan on Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:42 pm

So Ive been having a chat with Dislekcia (through twitter) about the implementation of a Wraith class and he brought up a problem, and I quote:

Reducing possibilities for resistance bypassing is dangerous, learned that with the monk...


This post is supposed to suggest a new incarnation of the Wraith Class and explain why it could work without being over or underpowered.

First off, the suggestion (changes from the one on the original post are in bold):

Wraith
Draining Touch: Your attack mana burns monsters (They do physical damage, and it wears off like poison)
Etherial Body: You start with 25% physical resistance. Cannot get magic resistance.
Drained Body: HALPMEH costs 1 extra mana point to cast.
X CP for 1% physical resistance

The original monk was a problem because he had two extremely powerfull class abilities and a "downside" ability that was not that hard to overcome. It had little synergy with most races and benefited a truckload from Humans and Orcs. The synergy with HALPMEH was also incredibly powerfull.

Lets look at the Wraith. Its primary ability is the phisical resist, its what mostly defines it, much like Half Dragon is defined by it permanent knockback effect. The mana burn effect is balanced out by a couple of things. Its only applied when the Wraith actually attacks the monster, this means that, unless the player gets first strike, he will allways take full damage from the first hit of a magic monster. The fact that it goes away like poison limits the usage of offencive gliphs (like PISORF and the ever present BURNDAYRAZ) when used to regen fight, while still allowing them to be used to their full potential in a straight out battle. The use of GETINDARE and WEYTWUT wouldnt really make the class overpowered, as luging either one around means you have less resistances since you wont convert it, the Monk didnt have this problem. The Increased cost on HALPMEH deals with its synergy being problematic with the Wraith. The fact that HALPMEH may not even apear doesnt really inflict a problem since, for example, the Half Dragon's Magical attack olny comes into play with (more or less) two types of monsters. The fact that it isnt another boon is also a factor.

Jesus that took a long time to write. I would appreciate it if you would write your thoughts Dislekcia.
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Re: Monster Classes!

Postby The Avatar on Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:14 pm

The third ability is a bit too specific. Perhaps just -5 starting mana, as that would only allow two HALPMEHS, and you would have 0 left over then, not 3. I think 50-60 CP would be good. For example, an elf gets approximately 22 mana on average, 9 more than normal, with a 50 rate you could get 12-13% on average, 17-20% on conversion focused runs.
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Re: Monster Classes!

Postby gjaustin on Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:18 pm

You could always give him the same ability as the Vampire: He doesn't regen mana unless at full health.


That keeps the thematic similarities of being Undead, and weakens HALPMEH by quite a lot.


Edit: He should probably be immune to Poison as well.
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Re: Monster Classes!

Postby Hammerfan on Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:20 pm

Well, yes, there is a problem with the third ability, but while your suggestion limits HALPMEH, it also really criples other gliphs when there really isnt a problem with the wraith using them (or at least i dont hink there is).

Rembember, Its not allways about what the ablity is, sometimes its about what the ability COULd be.

Edit: That could definetely work gjaustin. Poison imunity also means he doesnt get completly screwed over by Snakes. (bandits on the other hand...)
Last edited by Hammerfan on Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Monster Classes!

Postby The Avatar on Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:21 pm

And mana burn. But keep this in mind: The vamps undead ability only gives you poison and mana burn ability. His Damned ability is what disables his regens and resistances.
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Re: Monster Classes!

Postby rdtheta on Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:37 pm

On trying to find some crazily different ways of approaching the game, here's what I got:

Half-Phoenix
Bird Brain: Exp required for level gain is 1 +1 stacking. (meaning: to get lvl 2 costs 1 exp, lvl 3 costs 2, lvl 4 costs 3 etc) but gain only 20% of normal lvl-up stat increases.
Birth From Ashes: If you die as at level 10, revert to a level 1 (keep your items, boons etc but not your base stats)
It's a Bird, It's a ...yeah, it's a bird: Enemies don't block your path (must still have a revealed square to click on)
Fan the Flames: 1 Burning strike per (100?) Conversion points

So, probably completely unviable, as with most of these. Not sure if it's crazy underpowered or crazy overpowered with the stated math.
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Re: Monster Classes!

Postby The Avatar on Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:06 pm

It's funny and interesting, but I have no idea whether if it would be super powerful or not. Probably underpowered as a fighter, as you can't get your hp high enough (But since you can level up a ton of times a Troll Heart would be BROKEN). As a spell caster they would be great, as you could constantly refill your mana though level ups.
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Re: Monster Classes!

Postby rdtheta on Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:45 pm

Yes, The Avatar: Alchemist Scroll, Namtar's, Troll Heart and likely some others might have to be defined to work only once for each level of the same number (ie use it on the second time you're level 4, next time around it says "used for this level". Not sure if there's some mitigating balancing for the spellcasting problem. Can't decide if all the extra mana is in some way mitigated by fireball being tied to level, so when you reset you now have sucky fireballs again.
Also in something like Naga City where you can't go back for "popcorn" kills, it would be useless.


Anyway since these are fun to think about, how about another?

Ghost of Adventurers Past
Sent Back: start dungeon as level 2
Immaterial: 0 attack damage, can't hold non-glyph items.
Possession: Take control of enemy of lower level than you. You attack using its stats until it dies.
Knowledge of the Afterlife: 10 Piety from 100 Conversion Points

Again, I've prioritized being wacky over seriousness of balance. Again, I see that Naga City doesn't work with this alternate attack scheme. oh well.
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Re: Monster Classes!

Postby Murdus on Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:29 pm

Would LOVE that in Vicious Halls of Steel.
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Re: Monster Classes!

Postby The Avatar on Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:11 pm

Oh lord yes. That would be a GODSEND. Namtar on the other hand would suck unless you had a bunch of monsters with first strike. Or you got some level 9 frozen trolls.
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