Silent Update?

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Silent Update?

Postby Darvin on Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:12 am

It seems there was a silent update along with the GDC promotional material on the site.

The only change I've uncovered so far is that BLUDTUPOWA now drains health as you explore, eventually switching itself off if you cannot sustain it.

Glowing Guardian no longer penalizes higher level kills. He still doesn't penalize lower-level kills, either.

Crystal ball is flaking out. Not exactly sure what's going on with it.

Jehora Jeheyu petition now costs 45 piety.
Last edited by Darvin on Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Silent Update?

Postby dislekcia on Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:28 am

It's not really a silent update, it's just that we're too tired to write a coherent news post for the changes... Fixed a lot of Vampire issues too. Plus, y'know, the whole free week thing...
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Re: Silent Update?

Postby Darvin on Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:39 am

It's not really a silent update, it's just that we're too tired to write a coherent news post for the changes...

So you updated and then didn't tell anyone... that's a silent update in my books.

Also the crystal ball is flaking out a bit. I can't figure it out, sometimes its charge count goes up and sometimes it doesn't... sometimes even when I'm toggling BLUDTUPOWA (though only after I've cast other spells, so it never triggers if I just toggle B2P back and forth). It might just be a display issue, and the charge is just readjusting to its real value at weird times. More experimentation needed.


New BLUDTUPOWA works very differently from old BLUDTUPOWA, and is significantly weaker. It's a net-wash in terms of resource efficiency; you're sacrificing tiles in order to convert your HP into MP, which is very resource in-efficient. Prior to this change, its primary use was optimizing resource efficiency, something it now sucks at. Generally speaking, any character that can actually use his hit point resources will never want to use this glyph. It's for BURNDAYRAZ and PISORF specialist only. Hybrids and melee specialists can now convert this glyph on sight. In the long-run, there is no net resource gain for Mystera or Binlor worshippers, so it's largely useless in that respect as well.

I respect what you tried to do here; fix the long-standing issue with B2P synergizing too well with a few specific deities and class builds (namely Binlor, Mystera, and BURNDAYRAZ). However, this particular change nerfs it into the ground outside of a few narrow applications.
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Re: Silent Update?

Postby Fran on Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:35 am

Mystic Balance got nerfed in a good way.
Now every spell gets its cost shifted 2 points towards 5.
Wizards keep their bonus, berserkers keep their disadvantage, cydstep isn't cut that much in price.. I really like what the devs did there :)

Since when does Binlor reward Magic Resistance on every boon? Haven't played him in a while.

I think however that nerfing the vampire has been a bit too much.
Before, we had 3 DR for 40 CP (that was appaerantly unintended as the description said 90 CP). Now its 2 DR for 90 CP.
So before, we got 27 DR for 360 CP while now we get 8 DR for 360 CP. Thats about 30% of the old value, seriously?

You could get into regions of about 100 DR before if you tried really hard. That should be about 30 DR now if you devote all your ressources on conversion.
Granted, *if* you happen to worhip dracul, you can get a combined lifesteal and DR value of about 80. If your standard boss in later levels has about 120 attack, that is effectively a resist of about 66%. But having to spend all your ressources on that still seems a bit overpriced compared to other characters. And this approach depends heavily on dracul being there. I know lifesteal has other advantages that help but in a level like naga city, i'm not quite sure what to think (I guess it won't be long until someone beats it easily with the vamp but still).
Just adjusting the cost to 90 CP as this was bugged and leaving the 3 DR would have been enough for now in my opinion.

Don't get me wrong, a nerf was important, but I feel like this problem depends heavily on dracul being there or not as this makes a difference of 30 points in the "absorption" (DR+lifesteal) value, thus making balancing hard (too powerful with dracul in most situations, subpar in power without dracul, at least I feel like that). You're welcome to correct me if I'm missing some crucial points here.

How about this:
Give Vamp lifesteal on conversion, but make an overall cap on lifesteal (like 7 lvls for example). You could balance (CP cost, etc) the vamp around that without the issue of dracul being there or not. If you happen to find dracul, you don't need to convert as much to receive the maxlifesteal so you have more items at your disposal, but without dracul you can still reach the maxlifesteal. The point being that with dracul, the vamp still has great synergy but isn't heavily dependent on him which opens up different approaches using him.
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Re: Silent Update?

Postby The Avatar on Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:43 pm

With 7 lifesteal you get 70 hp back from each popcorn kill... Cap at 5 instead.

How about this is the official thread for the update?
JakshdfFiha$#jaigb532i97fbnPKASN*@)sdjbau9a0)f+,Ahghs*hr)sk_sabdh^ujsbUA3{mvio/~dgffdsT^klndf,#ikon%(d

I speak chaos.
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Re: Silent Update?

Postby Abraxas on Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:26 pm

From what I've seen so far.
I think the new Mystic Balance hit the sweet spot. In fact, I love the current Mystera so much that I hope she stays just like that forever, asides from maybe some piety cost changes.
I really like the new concept for BLUDTOPOWA, as having to look at your resources from a different angle was always what appealed to me in the Blood mage. Still, as it is right now, it really is fairly weak, and pretty much useless for anyone not going for a pure fireball strategy. It also makes the Bloodmage an even more lacking and uninteresting class than what he's become.
JJ really needed a change of some sort, but I don't think raising the cost of petition is the way to go about it. You're only really giving the player maybe an extra layer or two of punishments and some less piety to work with overall, but taking the boon is still a given. Having in mind what JJ's theme is, I'd think it would be more appropriate to not have Petition at all, maybe reducing the harshness of his punishments to balance that, or maybe replacing it with a different boon that isn't such an obvious pick.
And finally, the Vampire. I haven't really tested it so far, but the nerf was possibly too big. I start to wonder if having a class that converts for DR is viable at all, since apparently when it comes to DR conversion rates there's a very thin line between "so weak that it's not worth it" and "so strong that it breaks the game."
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Re: Silent Update?

Postby CznRhubarb on Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:10 pm

I'm thinking that DR should probably scale with player level. What I've seen wrong with DR while I was playing the Vampire was that I either had so much DR that a given monster couldn't hurt me or I had so little DR compared to a monster's attack that it seemed like I might as well not have it.

While it was fairly easy to get ~100 DR with the old Vamp, I think one of the bigger problems was that most of that DR came before I fought a single monster. The Vamp has very little reason to save tiles for regeneration, so it was best to just explore the whole map and convert every single glyph before fighting a level 4, 5, or 6 monster while level 1.
If I had converted every glyph and gotten 4-6 DR for level 1, I can still fight a level 2 (or maybe level 3 goat or gorgon), but I'm not going to jump straight to level 4 after killing a level 6 Goo Blob.
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Re: Silent Update?

Postby gjaustin on Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:19 pm

Abraxas wrote:And finally, the Vampire. I haven't really tested it so far, but the nerf was possibly too big. I start to wonder if having a class that converts for DR is viable at all, since apparently when it comes to DR conversion rates there's a very thin line between "so weak that it's not worth it" and "so strong that it breaks the game."


This is why I was upset about the Dwarf change to use DR.

There was no way their conversion ratio was going to be good enough to be broken, and therefore they were going to be awful.
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Re: Silent Update?

Postby Gorgon on Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:16 pm

Darvin wrote:I respect what you tried to do here; fix the long-standing issue with B2P synergizing too well with a few specific deities and class builds (namely Binlor, Mystera, and BURNDAYRAZ). However, this particular change nerfs it into the ground outside of a few narrow applications.


I completely agree. BLUDTUPOWA is balanced for any glyph other than BURNDAYRAZ. The problem is that BURNING can get to a stupidly high level when used with BP. Now BP is a useless glyph for almost everyone...

Still, no PISORF changes? :(
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Re: Silent Update?

Postby gjaustin on Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:00 pm

Wait, with the BLUDPOWA change can anyone other than the Berserker actually beat Halls of Steel now?
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