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QCF Design Community • View topic - Silent Update?


Silent Update?

All things Desktop Dungeons

Re: Silent Update?

Postby Lujo on Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:25 pm

On the subject, the old Cydstepp WAS a problem, because it was so strong that only few people were even aware how strong a HP boosted rogue is even without it. It was also so obviously strong that the old resist/conversion strats were buffed beyond the impossible by the devs in an effort to get the community to drop the damn cydstep rogues for 5 minutes and test other stuff out :)

I've been playing rogues since the cydstepp and resistance nerfs and the troll heart buff. They were quite strong, the Alch scroll really went over the top there. I also don't think the bonus damage, or the easily fixable flaw of low HP is the problem with Rogues, but the fact that a first strike attack is a "freebie attack" variant just like cydstepp and for Rogues it's always on. With cydstep he had an inherent (although scummed for) double freebie. I sort of think of them as combo hits, and when you factor in all the possible combo pieces (TT potions, whoopaz, first strike, cydstep, badge of honor, taurog's DP's), and look at an Orc rogue's damage, the nubers get sort of silly. Even with a "single serving (PER LEVEL!)" cydstepp.

And it's not really about the fairness, the nubers or anything, it's about the ease of getting them. The built in first strike's the problem with the Rogue, IMO.

Since I've been sort of researching the "freebie string combo theory" all the time i've been silent, I'll elaborate some more for sake of elaborating :)

Most "combo pieces" are either preps (2 TT potions, whoopaz, namtar's ward), or need to be worked for in some way (badge need's to be bought or preped in place of something else, additional TT potions need piety and a HP pot, TT's DP's need Piety Farm, cydstep costs plenty of mana and repeatable use needs mid fight lvl ups).

Gettindare is a strange case as it's not foolproof (doesn't work against first strike) and needs at leat 3 mana, and only forks as a finisher. All of this applies to wheytwut also, which costs 8 mana but works against first strikers. Both of them take an inventory slot if you lug them around, which doesn't really mesh well with some of the other combo pieces, as well as the general "convert stuff" route for Orc dmg pumping. The Rogue gets both a huge damage boost that sinergizes with Orcs, and free First strike which allows for more conversion and an effortless combo finisher in every fight.

There. :)
I almost got pwned by Shifty Brickwork!
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Re: Silent Update?

Postby Darvin on Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:47 pm

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Re: Silent Update?

Postby Lujo on Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:07 pm

I almost got pwned by Shifty Brickwork!
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Re: Silent Update?

Postby The Avatar on Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:16 pm

"Tikki is great as always!" I say, ripping off Kinisssch's tail! Up to 65 or so percent!
We made an expansion and it is awesome. Really, you should check it out, especially if you're looking for some extra challenge.

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Re: Silent Update?

Postby fall_ark on Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:43 pm

On new BLUDTOPOWA

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Re: Silent Update?

Postby Fran on Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:47 pm

I've been thinking.
The resist ward increases MP cost of BURNDAYRAZ by 1, doesn't it?
Let's say you play a wizard using it, then your BURNDAYRAZ cost would be 6 and Mystic Balance would decrease the cost to 4.
So you'd have resistdecreasing fireballs for 4 MP. That is one less than before the update. Couldn't you then just convert the wand to receive a cost of 3 MP for the fireball?
Add the flames-boon, an elf and some schadenfreude potions and you have yourself a deal.

I'd like to test that but i currently don't have the resistwand and I'm not in the mood of scumming for it now.
May anyone look into that?
Also, if this is true, I want someone to use this approach to beat the animated armors stage in the tower :P
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Re: Silent Update?

Postby The Avatar on Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:08 pm

Mystic Balance moves it two mana toward five, so wizards get no reduction to the cost of their fireballs, as they already cost 5.
We made an expansion and it is awesome. Really, you should check it out, especially if you're looking for some extra challenge.

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Re: Silent Update?

Postby Fran on Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:17 am

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Re: Silent Update?

Postby The Avatar on Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:24 am

5 mp resist reducing fireballs are pretty good...
We made an expansion and it is awesome. Really, you should check it out, especially if you're looking for some extra challenge.

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Re: Silent Update?

Postby gjaustin on Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:27 am

So I think the Vampire is about right now - as long as he finds Dracul.

He has some serious problems with high damage bosses like Aequitas or Bleaty though.
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