A Few Things that Need Attention

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Re: A Few Things that Need Attention

Postby The Avatar on Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:06 pm

If it doesn't toggle or cost mana, it isn't a glyph.

I like the cast spells from hp version. Currently, you can get almost 300 hp, but that's due for a nerf. The alchemist scroll will probably be nerfed to 8 per level.
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Re: A Few Things that Need Attention

Postby Gorgon on Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:27 pm

I like the cast spells from hp version


That's still a little silly. It would become an inverse HALPMEH, and would be a little overpowered... You would be able to continuously cast spells without having to explore, and priests would go insane with it :D
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Re: A Few Things that Need Attention

Postby Darvin on Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:45 pm

It'd basically have all the same balance problems as the current BLUDTUPOWA, except it'd be more powerful since you could use your HP as extra capacity for your mana overshoot.

As I said earlier, if we're going to keep the concept of converting HP into MP, I see no reason to change from the current paradigm of swapping the regeneration.
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Re: A Few Things that Need Attention

Postby Bloggorus on Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:38 am

Darvin wrote:It'd basically have all the same balance problems as the current BLUDTUPOWA, except it'd be more powerful since you could use your HP as extra capacity for your mana overshoot.

As I said earlier, if we're going to keep the concept of converting HP into MP, I see no reason to change from the current paradigm of swapping the regeneration.


Agree, but we need something to make it more versatile.

General consensus is that it's cost outweighs it's benefit in all but a few cases. Putting in an alternative effect, probably something to do with blood pools, might make it more worthwhile.

Also, having it use bloodpools will make taking a sanguine boon less of a massive bonus in the end game, and make playing dracul less straightforward.
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Re: A Few Things that Need Attention

Postby Darvin on Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:09 am

Agree, but we need something to make it more versatile

I disagree; prior to its buff BLUDTUPOWA was one of the game's most flexible glyphs. It didn't work for everyone (what does?) but it was performing well in a variety of roles for vastly different character builds. Unfortunately, it was working too well for a few narrow applications, namely piety farming with Binlor/Mystera and burning-spam. This is why it was nerfed.

I liked the old BLUDTUPOWA and I feel you need to justify a radical redesign of the glyph. The problem was that it was overnerfed because of a few narrow cases. Pre-nerf BLUDTUPOWA was less of a balance issue than either the crystal ball or alchemist's scroll, and I'd rather just revert the nerf and leave it as it was rather than pursue any of the suggestions that have been made thus far.


Also, having it use bloodpools will make taking a sanguine boon less of a massive bonus in the end game, and make playing dracul less straightforward.

Dracul's chance of spawning: 1/3
B2P's chance of spawning: 1/3
Chance of both spawning in the same game: 1/9

This situation would only come up in rare situations. Balancing a boon based on a tactical dissonance with a glyph (or vice-versa) makes little sense, since specific combos are actually quite rare. The only deities I think you could justify having a dissonance with B2P are Mystera and Binlor, but unfortunately as piety farms it's entirely possible that the player has no intention of buying their boons (particularly true in the case of Binlor, where it's stone heart or nothing at all for a dedicated caster).
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Re: A Few Things that Need Attention

Postby Joist on Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:08 am

If the issue with Binlor and MA is that you can piety farm more easily then there should be an issue with JJ too. Spamming WEYTWAT on a single mob gets you about 3 piety on average for 8 mana, not far behind MA at all (4 for 8).
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Re: A Few Things that Need Attention

Postby Darvin on Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:49 pm

Using WEYTWUT may give you piety with JJ, and this is only one of many ways he generates piety. The relative impact is much smaller.
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Re: A Few Things that Need Attention

Postby Bloggorus on Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:47 pm

I disagree; prior to its buff BLUDTUPOWA was one of the game's most flexible glyphs. It didn't work for everyone (what does?) but it was performing well in a variety of roles for vastly different character builds. Unfortunately, it was working too well for a few narrow applications, namely piety farming with Binlor/Mystera and burning-spam. This is why it was nerfed.

I liked the old BLUDTUPOWA and I feel you need to justify a radical redesign of the glyph. The problem was that it was overnerfed because of a few narrow cases. Pre-nerf BLUDTUPOWA was less of a balance issue than either the crystal ball or alchemist's scroll, and I'd rather just revert the nerf and leave it as it was rather than pursue any of the suggestions that have been made thus far.


I think we have crossed wires somewhere.

I also loved the old BLUD, but the devs responded to issues of fireball spam and almost infinite mana/piety loops by putting a natural limiter on the glyph. There were more than 'a few narrow cases', especially seeign that BLUD worked so well for such a wide variety of classes.

Now the glyph has gone slightly too far into a costly, specialist realm, losing some of the versatility which made BLUD awesome for everyone in the first place.

Many of the suggestions people have been making are minor additions, in the same vein as the reduce resist effect on BYCCEPS. They are looking to buff the glyph without pushing the boundaries.
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Re: A Few Things that Need Attention

Postby Incompetent on Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:55 pm

One problem I have with Taurog is that his champions turn into big babies when faced with resistance-lowering mobs. We are supposed to believe that in a single strike, a mere bandit can render useless two divinely-created artifacts (actually worse than useless, because Taurog still gets pissed if you convert them!). It would make sense for each of Taurog's regalia to give an immunity that protects the buff it gives (so helm => immune to magic resist reduction, shield => immune to corrosion, etc). The price of permanently losing an inventory slot is steep enough to justify this, I think.

Binlor could also do with a boon that gives immunity to resistance-lowering, seeing as resists are such a big theme for him. Make it so the player loses their immunity if they dump Binlor (or Binlor punishes them), and I think it would be OK balance-wise.


I don't really get the Bloodmage thematically at the moment - he's a whole mess of different ideas it seems and the list keeps changing. To me, the name 'Bloodmage' makes me think of trait of using HP instead of mana to cast spells - at any rate, I think drinking blood splats ought to charge up his spellcasting somehow, because he is a master of 'blood magic'. Conversely, with 'vampire' I think of something that drinks blood to stay alive, not to charge up its fireballs.
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Re: A Few Things that Need Attention

Postby Darvin on Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:10 pm

It would make sense for each of Taurog's regalia to give an immunity that protects the buff it gives (so helm => immune to magic resist reduction, shield => immune to corrosion, etc)

While adding more effects to his items would be a good idea, I don't think it solves his problem completely. The fact remains that inventory space is extremely valuable when you're in a high-gold scenario with high-end preps, and buffing Taurog to the point at which he's merely useful in such a scenario would make him ridiculously overpowered for your typical normal/hard scenario playing purist.

I don't think balancing an entire deity around inventory space consumption works, because that resource is entirely variable based on your preparation loadout. Either Taurog is overpowered for purist runs, or underpowered for a prep-heavy run, and there will never be an in-between.


Binlor could also do with a boon that gives immunity to resistance-lowering, seeing as resists are such a big theme for him. Make it so the player loses their immunity if they dump Binlor (or Binlor punishes them), and I think it would be OK balance-wise.

I don't think that's necessary. Binlor is doing just fine in his current incarantion even in the presence of resist-downers. I'd much sooner look at a general buff for stone form or a rework for stone soup.
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