A Few Things that Need Attention

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Re: A Few Things that Need Attention

Postby Incompetent on Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:49 pm

Darvin wrote:
It would make sense for each of Taurog's regalia to give an immunity that protects the buff it gives (so helm => immune to magic resist reduction, shield => immune to corrosion, etc)

While adding more effects to his items would be a good idea, I don't think it solves his problem completely. The fact remains that inventory space is extremely valuable when you're in a high-gold scenario with high-end preps, and buffing Taurog to the point at which he's merely useful in such a scenario would make him ridiculously overpowered for your typical normal/hard scenario playing purist.


I think Taurog should be balanced on a purist run, even if that means he's useless on the usual gear-laden run. (Taurog doesn't totally commit you to purist play, though - you can still prep for him by bringing small items and consumables such as the Sensation Stone, and possibly taking along a Compression Seal.) Apart from the Pactmaker, all the gods have particular specialities and you can't expect them to be useful under all circumstances.

As for Binlor: Is it just me, or is Rock Heart a total game-changer for this guy? Without Rock Heart he's decent enough, but Binlor + Rock Heart leads to some ridiculous antics.
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Re: A Few Things that Need Attention

Postby Abraxas on Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:03 pm

Incompetent wrote:I don't really get the Bloodmage thematically at the moment - he's a whole mess of different ideas it seems and the list keeps changing. To me, the name 'Bloodmage' makes me think of trait of using HP instead of mana to cast spells - at any rate, I think drinking blood splats ought to charge up his spellcasting somehow, because he is a master of 'blood magic'. Conversely, with 'vampire' I think of something that drinks blood to stay alive, not to charge up its fireballs.


I had been meaning to bring back my topic on Bloodmages, but I suppose this is just as good a place to voice my concerns.
I appreciate the devs trying to buff power-hungry, but it still feels like, for lack of a better word, a lousy ability.
Despite having been buffed, it still feels like an ultimately inconsequential ability. It can be a nice little bonus, but it's never really relevant enough to have any influence on when I end up drinking my mana potions.
But more than just that, it's flavorless. Even though the Bloodmage is supposed to be, well, a mage, this ability really doesn't do that any justice.
Not to mention that the BLUDTOPOWA nerf (which was a tad bit too much) made the glyph pretty much worthless for any strategies other than pure fireballing, and maybe pisorfing, so Sanguine as a whole for a BLUDTOPOWA class is only really good for keeping BLUDTOPOWA at the same level it was before, and squeezing in a few physical attacks after you're out of tiles to explore. Either that, or you can convert BLUDTOPOWA right away and use Sanguine as your main ability.

All in all, a class that I used to feel was very interesting and fun to play is now reduced to something boring and perhaps underpowered. I'm sure that the devs are working on it, but I really feel like the current incarnation of Power-Hungry is really not the right way to go about this.
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Re: A Few Things that Need Attention

Postby Darvin on Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:09 pm

Apart from the Pactmaker, all the gods have particular specialities and you can't expect them to be useful under all circumstances.

No, but we should expect them to have broader applications. They don't have to be useful to every character, but they should be useful more often than not. Heck, this is a stated design goal by the devs. Right now, I pretty much only use Taurog is a piety farm with the intent of fuelling a pact or converting over to someone more useful.

As for Binlor: Is it just me, or is Rock Heart a total game-changer for this guy? Without Rock Heart he's decent enough, but Binlor + Rock Heart leads to some ridiculous antics.

Rock Heart and pre-nerf BLUDTUPOWA turned Binlor into a piety bonanza, and if you got both of them that was awe-inspiring. Of course, if you wanted to actually spend that piety the limitation you'd run into was that you'd run out of walls completely!

But more than just that, it's flavorless. Even though the Bloodmage is supposed to be, well, a mage, this ability really doesn't do that any justice.

In total agreement; even if the current bloodmage can be balanced, he's easily the blandest character in the entire game currently. His class features don't synergize well with BLUDTUPOWA (a glyph that is now so underpowered as to be comparable with WONAFYT. Seriously, with the burning nerf this last update the BLUDTUPOWA change should have been reverted), and are more suitable to a melee brawler than a caster.
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Re: A Few Things that Need Attention

Postby Incompetent on Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:24 pm

Darvin wrote:Rock Heart and pre-nerf BLUDTUPOWA turned Binlor into a piety bonanza, and if you got both of them that was awe-inspiring. Of course, if you wanted to actually spend that piety the limitation you'd run into was that you'd run out of walls completely!


Certainly, walls become a resource you have to manage like any other, and Binlor is only any good if there are enough edible walls, so obviously you need an exit strategy if that is an issue. I think you need to get in early with Stone Soup sometimes to get the most out of him.

The thing I find most overpowered with Rock Heart is that it throws in a big mana refill each time you pick up one of Binlor's boons. With some other gods this would be strong but not amazing, but given how easy it is to cash in repeatedly on Stone Skin (=> 10 mana) and Stone Heart (=> 20 mana), it really gets out of hand. Either these boons are good enough on their own, in which case a mana refill on top starts getting crazy, or they are not worth the effort on their own, in which case Binlor is too specialised.

=============

Also on the subject of balance issues, the Assassin Bronze challenge is just silly if you use a Goblin. You can literally use Swift Hands on EVERY monster in the level and never get hit (since none of them have First Strike). You don't even need to pick up any items!
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Re: A Few Things that Need Attention

Postby The Avatar on Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:50 pm

That's probably a bug, because the same thing happens with the transmuter's conversion bonus.

Agree on reverting BLUDTUPOWA and changing Bloodmages. Not only do they both suck, the Bloodmage is bland and anti-thematical. I would like it returned to its original incarnation with a few changes. (80% mana potions?)
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Re: A Few Things that Need Attention

Postby Darvin on Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:02 am

I think you need to get in early with Stone Soup sometimes to get the most out of him.

I feel Stone Soup isn't worth using at all. Binlor is not hard to earn piety with, and I'd rather have the edible morsels of XP.

With some other gods this would be strong but not amazing, but given how easy it is to cash in repeatedly on Stone Skin (=> 10 mana) and Stone Heart (=> 20 mana), it really gets out of hand.

Now that needs to be addressed.

Also on the subject of balance issues, the Assassin Bronze challenge is just silly if you use a Goblin. You can literally use Swift Hands on EVERY monster in the level and never get hit (since none of them have First Strike). You don't even need to pick up any items!

Yes, this was already discussed in another topic. Goblin Assassin completely breaks Assassin Bronze, which is already the easiest of the challenges by a considerably margin.
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Re: A Few Things that Need Attention

Postby The Avatar on Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:03 am

Unless you don't use a goblin. Then it's hard. Which do you think is the hardest? I had the most trouble with the Bloodmage.
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Re: A Few Things that Need Attention

Postby Darvin on Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:11 am

I'd agree that bloodmage has the hardest bronze challenge by a longshot. On the other end of the spectrum, rogue, Assassin, and Priest are very easy. The other levels are all roughly equivalent on difficulty and it's going to come down to personal opinion.
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Re: A Few Things that Need Attention

Postby Joist on Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:27 am

The Avatar wrote:Unless you don't use a goblin. Then it's hard. Which do you think is the hardest? I had the most trouble with the Bloodmage.


Still pretty easy once you learn how the dungeon works. I think that's kind of the point of all the challenges, the dungeons are hard until you learn the lesson it's trying to teach. In this dungeon it's regen fighting with APHEELSIK and efficient use of IMAWALL.

Get a couple of solid levels APHEELSIK fighting meatmen, after that you can just swift hands everything else in the dungeon if you make sure you IMAWALL a level 1 mob when you are about to swift hands a mob of level 4 or higher.

Image

I went back in. Without any bonus XP killing all the mobs except the boss puts you 12 xp points shy of level 8 (the level you need to be to kill the boss). All you need to do is make 12 bonus xp by killing either higher level mobs or using IMAWALL properly (or 3 goblin conversion levels).
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Re: A Few Things that Need Attention

Postby The Avatar on Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:40 am

Ah true. Its just pretty hard to kill level 6 frozen corpses and trolls.
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