Buffs and Nerfs to Monsters

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Re: Buffs and Nerfs to Monsters

Postby gjaustin on Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:20 pm

Animated Armors, Doom Armors, and Thralls are the only enemies I think need adjusting.

I think the real problem in some of the dungeons is just that the monster mix tends tends to have too many different types of debuffers. A few debuffers creates interesting tension, while too many debuffers creates the over-exploration problem.

I think if they adjusted those three monsters, added a random base monster to each Hard/Vicious dungeon (like the random boss), and gave a +1 XP bonus for equal level monsters then everything would be great.
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Re: Buffs and Nerfs to Monsters

Postby Fran on Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:29 pm

Darvin wrote:The suggestion to let weakening and corrosion expire is interesting, but it'll need work. One of the huge issues will be Jehora Jeheyu. I'd imagine any character who is immune to mana burn could safely play JJ without purchasing petition...


You could always increase the amount of corrosion or weakening you receive from her at any single shot so that you're debuffed for a longer period of time.
If two cumulative points of corrosion / weakening from monsters are not enough to "slow the player down", you could even think about higher values per hit, as long as you keep the 1 recovery on being hit. This way, the removal of corrosion/weakening through potions / chaos-avatar could be kept as a useful effect, too.
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Re: Buffs and Nerfs to Monsters

Postby The Avatar on Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:01 pm

@gjaustin: If those were the only problems people would still slaughter high level enemies, such as goats, even though that is not what the devs want. Also, you think succubi are okay?

@Darivn: Hmm... I just feel it's kind of cheap to be immune to fireballs AND have more than normal hp. Perhaps making it 110-100% would be better?
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Re: Buffs and Nerfs to Monsters

Postby q 3 on Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:02 pm

I personally suspect that some (but not all) of the problem with debuffing monsters is psychological rather than mathematical. Once you hit level 5+, a few levels of corrosion or weakening tend to have a negligible impact on your actual performance. It's the threat of a permanent debuff that makes those monsters so imposing.

Thus, my suggestion would be - at least as a temporary experiment - to leave the permanent debuffs in but make those monsters significantly weaker. Something like 75% HP and 100% attack, or vice versa, with little or no resistances or other abilities. (Buff nearly everything else up to at least 100% while you're at it.) Make debuffers juicy targets and then we'll see just how much long-term pain players are willing to tolerate in exchange for precious bonus XP.
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Re: Buffs and Nerfs to Monsters

Postby The Avatar on Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:08 pm

I completely agree on the psychology point. I cannot stand getting debuffs, and for that reason I prefer Vicious to slime pits or Ick Swamp. Still, what about lower resist. It had the same psychology problem, for me at least, when it was at 3%. Now it's 15%. God that's a scary prospect. Lower resist is a bad idea as the only thing on a monster. If it has the stats of a debuffer, like bandit stats, it will either be incredible fodder or completely untouchable. I say weaken lower resists to 5 or so percent and give all lower resist enemies another ability.
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Re: Buffs and Nerfs to Monsters

Postby gjaustin on Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:13 pm

The Avatar wrote:@gjaustin: If those were the only problems people would still slaughter high level enemies, such as goats, even though that is not what the devs want. Also, you think succubi are okay?

@Darivn: Hmm... I just feel it's kind of cheap to be immune to fireballs AND have more than normal hp. Perhaps making it 110-100% would be better?


I got the impression that the devs are fine with us killing high level enemies. They just don't like us exploring all over the place to find them. They'd rather have us work with what we find, rather than wandering around until we find just the right thing.

As for Succubi, I can't even remember which dungeon they appear in or what they do!
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Re: Buffs and Nerfs to Monsters

Postby Darvin on Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:24 pm

As for Succubi, I can't even remember which dungeon they appear in or what they do!

Demonic Library, weakening... basically a naga.
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Re: Buffs and Nerfs to Monsters

Postby The Avatar on Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:05 pm

With extra hp I think, and death gaze. Although no one cares about the death gaze when it weakens.
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Re: Buffs and Nerfs to Monsters

Postby Darvin on Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:07 pm

Something along the lines of "Resist Down, Weakening, and Death Gaze" would be the equivalent of the classic "Arson, Murder, and Jaywalking".

Death Gaze is completion inconsequential if the monster doesn't have first strike, anyways. If the monster cannot kill you in two hits with its regular attack damage, you can probably kill it with a single blow and will never suffer on-attack effects.
Last edited by Darvin on Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Buffs and Nerfs to Monsters

Postby The Avatar on Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:09 pm

Pretty much. Yeah, death gaze is pretty pointless, unless you could sustain 4 hits, but then if you could, it wouldn't matter, because you'd kill it first.
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