Fewer "no exploration" subdungeons

All things Desktop Dungeons

Fewer "no exploration" subdungeons

Postby Darvin on Sun Apr 08, 2012 7:21 pm

There are currently too many subdungeons that offer no exploration. These subdungeons suck to find, and many of the new ones actually require you to expend resources, something that is completely infeasible if they're discovered late, making them totally worthless under many circumstances. One of the biggest problems is that most subdungeons will have unexplored space when you first enter, so you want to enter them when you're injured so you don't waste tiles. This means that there's a good 80% chance a player is entering a subdungeon critically injured. If there's combat to be had in that subdungeon, it really needs to be unexplored.

Hit-Ball is one of the worst offenders; it really should be unexplored so you can use it to heal yourself. Soko Trolls is also pretty bad, but at least it has a half-decent jackpot. Subdungeons should really be balanced against "Mothers for Happier Dungeoneers", which is 25 tiles of exploration space, a free potion, and a few pieces of gold. If you actually have to work to earn the subdungeon's reward, the reward needs to be considerably higher than that, and if the subdungeon has no exploration space then the reward needs to be much, much higher than that.

The sudden appearance of many no-explore subdungeons has been really annoying.
User avatar
Darvin
 
Posts: 3063
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:44 am

Re: Fewer "no exploration" subdungeons

Postby The Avatar on Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:29 am

I agree. What is the hit ball one? Also, for the troll one, what about having the space around the new world/on the new world hidden. That's 25 tiles, and since you beat the trolls you get the reward.
JakshdfFiha$#jaigb532i97fbnPKASN*@)sdjbau9a0)f+,Ahghs*hr)sk_sabdh^ujsbUA3{mvio/~dgffdsT^klndf,#ikon%(d

I speak chaos.
User avatar
The Avatar
 
Posts: 4436
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:52 pm
Location: Demonic Library

Re: Fewer "no exploration" subdungeons

Postby Darvin on Thu May 10, 2012 3:27 am

Something really needs to be done about this. With so much content not unlockable to new kingdoms in this version, I have to lean more heavily than ever on conventional exploration-heavy regen tactics, and finding a no-explore subdungeon is a game-ender on a harder scenario. Seeing as most vicious dungeons have hard-coded subdungeons, and my huge selection on preps on my main account lets me auto-win pretty much any non-vicious scenarios, I was able to get by there. Having to play with beginner-level resources, no-explore subdungeons are just way too much of a loss of resources, and you're almost never decked out enough to tackle a subdungeon like Ying/Yang.

This is amplified since I tend to rely heavily on the Assassin class as my "beach-head" when making my initial foray into new regions, and he suffers worst of all.
Last edited by Darvin on Thu May 10, 2012 3:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Darvin
 
Posts: 3063
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:44 am

Re: Fewer "no exploration" subdungeons

Postby The Avatar on Thu May 10, 2012 3:31 am

I say just giving every subdungeon about 25 covered tiles (the inside of hit all arena, the "inner sanctum" of the grove of knowledge, the space in and around the new world, All of Draco's heart, etc.) would work perfectly well.
JakshdfFiha$#jaigb532i97fbnPKASN*@)sdjbau9a0)f+,Ahghs*hr)sk_sabdh^ujsbUA3{mvio/~dgffdsT^klndf,#ikon%(d

I speak chaos.
User avatar
The Avatar
 
Posts: 4436
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:52 pm
Location: Demonic Library

Re: Fewer "no exploration" subdungeons

Postby Joist on Thu May 10, 2012 7:22 am

@Darvin: I started a new campaign a few updates ago. I found I could do every Hard dungeon with Thief prepping a Fine Sword, no item unlocks and only TT unlocked (so I got him every time).

Thief is a beast.
Joist
 
Posts: 432
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:22 pm

Re: Fewer "no exploration" subdungeons

Postby The Avatar on Thu May 10, 2012 12:22 pm

Agreed. He is an incredible all-rounder that is great in all situations.
JakshdfFiha$#jaigb532i97fbnPKASN*@)sdjbau9a0)f+,Ahghs*hr)sk_sabdh^ujsbUA3{mvio/~dgffdsT^klndf,#ikon%(d

I speak chaos.
User avatar
The Avatar
 
Posts: 4436
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:52 pm
Location: Demonic Library

Re: Fewer "no exploration" subdungeons

Postby gjaustin on Thu May 10, 2012 2:01 pm

Joist wrote:@Darvin: I started a new campaign a few updates ago. I found I could do every Hard dungeon with Thief prepping a Fine Sword, no item unlocks and only TT unlocked (so I got him every time).

Thief is a beast.


I have a tendency to do Hard dungeons on new profiles with a Dwarf Rogue or Human Berserker.

Both can basically brute force their way through a dungeon with minimal preps.
gjaustin
 
Posts: 1113
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:29 am

Re: Fewer "no exploration" subdungeons

Postby Darvin on Thu May 10, 2012 3:29 pm

Joist wrote:@Darvin: I started a new campaign a few updates ago. I found I could do every Hard dungeon with Thief prepping a Fine Sword, no item unlocks and only TT unlocked (so I got him every time).

Thief is a beast.

Makes sense, since thief amplifies your potion resources. With potions and regen as your dominant resources, classes that focus on improving these things will dominate. I'm prepping fine sword, too. Can't seem to get the bank quests to unlock, so the crystal ball is kinda useless unless I can kill one boss early.

My assassin antics would probably work fine if I could just unlock the goblin...
User avatar
Darvin
 
Posts: 3063
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:44 am

Re: Fewer "no exploration" subdungeons

Postby The Avatar on Thu May 10, 2012 7:07 pm

Ouch. Yeah, a lot of basic unlocks got ruined this update.
JakshdfFiha$#jaigb532i97fbnPKASN*@)sdjbau9a0)f+,Ahghs*hr)sk_sabdh^ujsbUA3{mvio/~dgffdsT^klndf,#ikon%(d

I speak chaos.
User avatar
The Avatar
 
Posts: 4436
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:52 pm
Location: Demonic Library

Re: Fewer "no exploration" subdungeons

Postby Sidestepper on Sat May 26, 2012 12:14 am

I wanted to kick this back up and strengthen Darvin's suggestion to "no pre-explored subdungeons." It adds way too much swing and the rewards in the prelit dungeons are mostly too situational to be worth losing the exploration.
Sidestepper
 
Posts: 746
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:36 am

Next

Return to Desktop Dungeons

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests