QCF Design Community

There are currently too many subdungeons that offer no exploration. These subdungeons suck to find, and many of the new ones actually require you to expend resources, something that is completely infeasible if they're discovered late, making them totally worthless under many circumstances. One of the biggest problems is that most subdungeons will have unexplored space when you first enter, so you want to enter them when you're injured so you don't waste tiles. This means that there's a good 80% chance a player is entering a subdungeon critically injured. If there's combat to be had in that subdungeon, it really needs to be unexplored.

Hit-Ball is one of the worst offenders; it really should be unexplored so you can use it to heal yourself. Soko Trolls is also pretty bad, but at least it has a half-decent jackpot. Subdungeons should really be balanced against "Mothers for Happier Dungeoneers", which is 25 tiles of exploration space, a free potion, and a few pieces of gold. If you actually have to work to earn the subdungeon's reward, the reward needs to be considerably higher than that, and if the subdungeon has no exploration space then the reward needs to be much, much higher than that.

The sudden appearance of many no-explore subdungeons has been really annoying.

I agree. What is the hit ball one? Also, for the troll one, what about having the space around the new world/on the new world hidden. That's 25 tiles, and since you beat the trolls you get the reward.

Something really needs to be done about this. With so much content not unlockable to new kingdoms in this version, I have to lean more heavily than ever on conventional exploration-heavy regen tactics, and finding a no-explore subdungeon is a game-ender on a harder scenario. Seeing as most vicious dungeons have hard-coded subdungeons, and my huge selection on preps on my main account lets me auto-win pretty much any non-vicious scenarios, I was able to get by there. Having to play with beginner-level resources, no-explore subdungeons are just way too much of a loss of resources, and you're almost never decked out enough to tackle a subdungeon like Ying/Yang.

This is amplified since I tend to rely heavily on the Assassin class as my "beach-head" when making my initial foray into new regions, and he suffers worst of all.

I say just giving every subdungeon about 25 covered tiles (the inside of hit all arena, the "inner sanctum" of the grove of knowledge, the space in and around the new world, All of Draco's heart, etc.) would work perfectly well.

@Darvin: I started a new campaign a few updates ago. I found I could do every Hard dungeon with Thief prepping a Fine Sword, no item unlocks and only TT unlocked (so I got him every time).

Thief is a beast.

Agreed. He is an incredible all-rounder that is great in all situations.

Ouch. Yeah, a lot of basic unlocks got ruined this update.

I wanted to kick this back up and strengthen Darvin's suggestion to "no pre-explored subdungeons." It adds way too much swing and the rewards in the prelit dungeons are mostly too situational to be worth losing the exploration.