[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 120: preg_filter(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 120: preg_filter(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
QCF Design Community • View topic - Please release the monster classes. They want to be free...


Please release the monster classes. They want to be free...

All things Desktop Dungeons

Re: Please release the monster classes. They want to be free

Postby Joist on Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:58 pm

I like the no-xp idea.

I do think that most of the vicious dungeons promote using every tile, not just Gaan and Naga. Lately I've been preping altars directly so I can piety farm from the get go, not wasting a single dark tile. For example, taking Binlor into VHoS will get you 30 magic resist and 100 piety by the time the top is clear, even with 30% of the walls being unbreakable. You sink that piety into taurog or dracul for some more resists and that's nearly 50% magic resist just utilising gods.

edit: I have noticed that all of my Vicious runs prep tri-sword though. It's really the only way to deal enough damage reliably.
Joist
 
Posts: 432
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:22 pm

Re: Please release the monster classes. They want to be free

Postby gjaustin on Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:06 pm

I've said this before, but the Vicious dungeons are fine.

Yes, they're really hard. But they're still fair. They're the ultimate challenge to see how well you can master a class. You can beat all of them (except Gaan'telet) with a Halfling Priest with a Trisword and some resists. That's about the most basic thing you can do, so if that's "broken" then everything is.

The only things that are "broken" are the things that make a Vicious dungeon EASY.
gjaustin
 
Posts: 1113
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:29 am

Re: Please release the monster classes. They want to be free

Postby Lujo on Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:23 pm

@Joist - ofc they promote using every tile, but again, it's the disparity between what you can bring in / find and what you are expected to clear. If a loadout works for VICIOUS dungeons, it destroys anything lesser that doesn't have a major twist. Which is why I sort of think I'd rather see the Stheno dungeon and Ick swamp as VICIOUS dungeons (as they have a twist) rather than Dragon Isles (everything's fat and there's more of it never felt VICIOUS to me, more like HARD in the literal sense of the word). What sets NC and Gaan'T from the other ones is that you're expeted to clear a crapload more monsters, but are given plenty of tools for it.

@gjaustin - sticking a trisword on a halfling is not basic, it's broken and always has been. What you're doing there is not strategy - it's trying to farm up as many HP potions (a very strong item in and off itself) with a class that breaks the rules that apply to all other classes (makes HP potions even more effective), and then prepping an item that adds a bonus to using said item, an otherwise scarce bonus (+dmg) in a game where %based att augumentation is plentifull, and the potion in question allso allows you to apply that damage to enemies more times (since HP is practicaly mana for mellee attacks). I don't suppose the strat also involves the "rewards you for anything you do, really, but can boost your HP to way above curve" god as well?

Executing all of that in the most strategic manner can take a bit of an effort, but so can aiming a nuclear bomb. Anything that's not EASY for that particular combo is probably really, really difficult. That's not mastery, that's not even synergy, it's singularity, and if anything requires that much power it should probably be nerfed or rethought.

And if someone's not sure, between trilings and old cydstepp rogues it took people ages to figure out that there was stuff in the game that couldwalk all over old Gaan'Telet, not to mention even think of trying out a whole bunch of stuff that was getting overbuffed beyond belief for months.
Last edited by Lujo on Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I almost got pwned by Shifty Brickwork!
User avatar
Lujo
 
Posts: 3793
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:47 am

Re: Please release the monster classes. They want to be free

Postby Darvin on Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:33 pm

Anyone with lots of potions and a Trisword is broken. I made so many screw-ups in my halfling tinker Naga City run last night that I should have been hard-pressed to win a hard difficulty level... and I didn't find the alchemist's scroll that run either...
User avatar
Darvin
 
Posts: 4355
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:44 am

Re: Please release the monster classes. They want to be free

Postby Lujo on Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:36 pm

Oh, yeah, and I forgot the scroll on top of it all, but you can't prep both it and the Tri-Sword. And I didn't even go into the extra alchemists, or the fact that it was powerfull when it only woked on HP potions and that the shops were far less efficent in general than now. And at least the bosses in the Naga City were tougher.
I almost got pwned by Shifty Brickwork!
User avatar
Lujo
 
Posts: 3793
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:47 am

Re: Please release the monster classes. They want to be free

Postby Darvin on Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:29 pm

Yeah, you can't prep both, but your odds of finding it aren't too shabby; not really much less than finding a specific top-level altar you're interested in.
User avatar
Darvin
 
Posts: 4355
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:44 am

Re: Please release the monster classes. They want to be free

Postby gjaustin on Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:23 pm

Last edited by gjaustin on Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
gjaustin
 
Posts: 1113
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:29 am

Re: Please release the monster classes. They want to be free

Postby Darvin on Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:28 pm

Same principle. Naga City simply takes it to the extreme.
User avatar
Darvin
 
Posts: 4355
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:44 am

Re: Please release the monster classes. They want to be free

Postby gjaustin on Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:43 pm

Last edited by gjaustin on Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
gjaustin
 
Posts: 1113
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:29 am

Re: Please release the monster classes. They want to be free

Postby Darvin on Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:46 pm

I'd disagree with that analogy; if anything the Halfling Tikki Tooki Trisword Tinker is the money laundering, and Naga City is a scenario where you have an inordinate amount of illicit cash with which to launder. Actually, that's a very good analogy, since you're literally converting a massive amount of illegitimate cash into a usable form of "currency".
User avatar
Darvin
 
Posts: 4355
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:44 am

PreviousNext

Return to Desktop Dungeons

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests