Please release the monster classes. They want to be free...

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Re: Please release the monster classes. They want to be free

Postby Mister Bile on Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:12 pm

dislekcia wrote:Is nobody else currently finishing vicious dungeons?


So far, only 2 without abusing the crusader-power bug, and those 2 both used Silver-Bullet strategies from the forums. (Thanks, Joist, Darvin, and the rest! Next up is trying out the Orc Transmuter)

Anyways, I'm curious if these are supposed to be regular(but really tough) dungeons, or high-end puzzles. A few posters indicate that these are just normal dungeon experiences, if your brain can handle all of the insane math and nonstandard strategy they require. Most of the rest make them out purely as puzzles, where the only way to win is to pick one of a handful of classes, pick the preps that synergize, perhaps to the point of becoming overpowered, and then follow the one true strategy.

Either way, i would say that having to beat these with three different classes is a bit... daunting. Especially since, the way things are currently structured, by the time I can manage to accomplish that goal there seem to be no more hills left to climb with my new monsters.
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Re: Please release the monster classes. They want to be free

Postby Joist on Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:42 pm

Mister Bile wrote:Anyways, I'm curious if these are supposed to be regular(but really tough) dungeons, or high-end puzzles. A few posters indicate that these are just normal dungeon experiences, if your brain can handle all of the insane math and nonstandard strategy they require. Most of the rest make them out purely as puzzles, where the only way to win is to pick one of a handful of classes, pick the preps that synergize, perhaps to the point of becoming overpowered, and then follow the one true strategy.


I would like to know about this too. My question would be "Will any build that can reliably do Vicious dungeons be considered OP and summarily nerfed?".
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Re: Please release the monster classes. They want to be free

Postby Darvin on Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:55 pm

"Will any build that can reliably do Vicious dungeons be considered OP and summarily nerfed?"

That has more or less been the case up until now, and it's only been obscure stuff that's been left alone. Warlords in Demonic Library have been pretty much the only ones left more or less alone...
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Re: Please release the monster classes. They want to be free

Postby Joist on Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:50 am

Well, I think I've put the tri-sword, berserker, gnome, alchemist scroll and transmuter right in the firing line. Let's see what gets nerfed next.
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Re: Please release the monster classes. They want to be free

Postby The Avatar on Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:11 am

I disagree with berserker. He just has great luck on how there's so much magic damage.

Since there's more magic than physical damage, shouldn't it be the monk with an attack bonus, not the berserker?
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Re: Please release the monster classes. They want to be free

Postby Joist on Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:26 am

Yeah, that's really weird about late game. I think it's because so many of the classes have physical resist, the devs put a bunch of magic bosses in.
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Re: Please release the monster classes. They want to be free

Postby gjaustin on Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:01 am

Darvin wrote:
"Will any build that can reliably do Vicious dungeons be considered OP and summarily nerfed?"

That has more or less been the case up until now, and it's only been obscure stuff that's been left alone. Warlords in Demonic Library have been pretty much the only ones left more or less alone...


I disagree - sort of.

It's more that anything that's beaten a Vicious dungeon easily (except Body Pact!) has been nerfed. Straightforward combos like Halfling Priest and Dwarf Rogue have always been able to beat all (or at least most) of the Vicious dungeons and haven't really been touched beyond some Trisword tweaks and that Dwarf "buff" that we begged to be reverted.

Heck, Berserkers have even been (indirectly) buffed and they've always been the easiest way to beat Dragon Isles!
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Re: Please release the monster classes. They want to be free

Postby Lujo on Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:29 am

Generally, they nerfed stuff that was both too straightforward and too powerfull, but plenty of that stuff was overbuffed on purpose so people might notice it (like cheap conversion fodder).

The second category was stuff that made people not even bother with purposefully overbuffed stuff as it was unitnentionally more powerfull then stuf dev's made intentionaly more powerfull then they thought it should be (like the old cydstepp, GG or various incarnations of the Tri-Sword).

And agree about the berserker - he was actually undepowered on account of there being very little magic damage in the game, which is also the reason so many bosses had magic damage. They may have overdone the magic damage on monsters now, so people are struggling with the monk now, but it's not the berserker or the monk, it's the monsters, really.
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Re: Please release the monster classes. They want to be free

Postby Joist on Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:35 am

I think it'd be nice if VHoS and Dragon Isles both had 1 magic boss and 1 physical boss.

Would make things interesting and sort of level it up between physical (paladin, monk, gorgon) and the berserker.
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Re: Please release the monster classes. They want to be free

Postby The Avatar on Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:45 am

So Matron is Physical? And Indomiable is too?
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