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QCF Design Community • View topic - Strategy Thread for talking about Strategies


Strategy Thread for talking about Strategies

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Re: Strategy Thread for talking about Strategies

Postby Blovski on Fri May 11, 2012 12:42 pm

2/3 wins on VHOS - the vampire will be mine...

The obvious Human Taurogzerker w. a bear mace for this run (+25% damage, which is crucial when you're hitting Blahblah so many times + prevent blink and double armour breakage). Mana burn salve prep essential. Think I brought Patches along for the ride as well.

Also, new exploding signpost is a decent find now - got a compression seal and a schadenfreude from it.
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Re: Strategy Thread for talking about Strategies

Postby Joist on Fri May 11, 2012 12:50 pm

Done halfling priest yet? If you have go for a Stone Heart/Binlor wizard with BURNDAYRAZ or PISORF (pisorf for preference if it appears)
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Re: Strategy Thread for talking about Strategies

Postby dislekcia on Fri May 11, 2012 2:17 pm

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Re: Strategy Thread for talking about Strategies

Postby Darvin on Fri May 11, 2012 8:11 pm

Eh, you don't need calculus to figure it out if you ignore overflow and rounding.

N1 = number of hits to kill monster regularly
N2 = number of hits to kill monster w/ weakening
B = your base attack (before weakening)
A = your attack bonus
HP = monster's HP

What we are looking for is N2/N1, the ratio of how many attacks required to kill the monster with and without weakening respectively, and we want it expressed with respect to B, A, and HP.

First, we can trivially say that the monster's HP = N1 * A * B

To figure out the monster's HP with respect to N2, we must factor in the effect of weakening. Each attack lowers your base attack by 1 point. Hence you take -1 on the second attack, -2 on the third, -3 on the fourth, and so on. This is an arithmetic sequence whose total is equal to (N^2-N)/2. Hence HP = N2*A*B - A*(N2^2-N2)/2.

We're looking for N2/N1 expressed as a factor of HP, A, and B. This is easy for N1:

N1 = HP/(A*B)

More tricky for N2:

HP = N2*A*B - A*(N2^2-N2)/2
2*HP/A = N2*(2*B+1) - (N2^2)
N2 - (2*B+1)*N2 + 2*HP/A = 0

This is a quadratic equation, solve with the quadratic formula:

N2 = ((2*B+1) +- sqrt( (2*B+1)^2 - 8*HP/A )) / 2

This will produce two answers. However, the second answer is invalid because it actually represents the monster's HP increasing because your attack damage becomes negative. This makes no sense, so we only take the version that subtracts from the results of the square root (producing a lower value for N2, the number of attacks required to kill).

N2 = (B+1) - sqrt( B^2 + B + 1/4 - 2*HP/A )
N1 = HP/(B*A)

N2/N1 = (B*A)*((B+1) - sqrt(B^2+B+1/4 - 2*HP/A))/HP

And there you have it, a formula that will tell you, based on the monster's HP, your base attack, and attack bonus, how much relative durability the monster gains. Heck, probably wouldn't take too much more effort to whip up a spreadsheet and account for rounding and thresholds.
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Re: Strategy Thread for talking about Strategies

Postby gjaustin on Fri May 11, 2012 8:21 pm

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Re: Strategy Thread for talking about Strategies

Postby Darvin on Fri May 11, 2012 8:28 pm

I stipulated that it's the "number of attacks required to kill" and that I was ignoring rounding and thresholds, hence it is effective hit points.

Try it if you like:
A = 1
B = 15
HP = 100

Takes 7 hits to kill with without weakening, 10 hits to kill with weakening

N2 = (15+1) - sqrt( 15^2 + 15 + 1/4 - 2*100) = 16 - sqrt(40.25) = 16 - 6.3 = 9.7
N1 = 100/15 = 6.66

If we round up, we get 7 hits to kill w/o weakening, and 10 to kill with weakening. Relative improvement is 10/7 = 1.42, so a 42% increase in effective HP.
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Re: Strategy Thread for talking about Strategies

Postby gjaustin on Fri May 11, 2012 8:52 pm

I think you misunderstand me. I was referring to my equation, which still has a few steps before it's actually an equation for effective health. And I'm looking at it and thinking I may have made a mistake somewhere.

I just wanted to do the calculus since dislekcia called me out!


Edit: Yeah, something is wrong. I haven't integrated anything for about 10 years and I'm rusty.
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Re: Strategy Thread for talking about Strategies

Postby gjaustin on Fri May 11, 2012 9:09 pm

Let's try this again.

Ok, "acceleration"
a(x) = -1

So "velocity" (current damage) is
a(x) = C - x

We know that C is equal to B, so
v(x) = B - x

So "distance" (total damage without modifiers) is
d(x) = Bx - (x^2)/2 + C

If B=10

Correct
d(1) = 10
d(2) = 19
d(3) = 27

My equation
d(1) = 9.5
d(2) = 18
d(3) = 25.5

So I'm missing a .5x in there somewhere. I suppose that's needed to counteract the fact that I've represented a discreet function as a continuous one.

ACTUALLY. My equation is the average between you hitting first and the monster hitting first. So I'm sort of correct :)

Monster First
(1) = 9
d(2) = 17
d(3) = 23
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Re: Strategy Thread for talking about Strategies

Postby Blovski on Thu May 17, 2012 12:08 am

Bwahahaha! Third VHOS win as spellcaster assassin - vampire is mine : )

Prepped mage plate, MA, gold piles, transloc, extra glyph (refreshment lined up) and potions. Accidentally used two mana potions at full mana by a misclick *and* forgot to Whupaz but it still worked out alright. Converted to Dracul for the boss fights just so I wouldn't get my piety mauled to pieces for killing magic users. Got an Amulet of Yendar with the transloc which I used for a level 10 level up (I was at 31 piety I think, not much conversion focus, so each level up then is 6 fireballs with flames), so that was a bit lucky.
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Re: Strategy Thread for talking about Strategies

Postby Blovski on Wed May 30, 2012 10:47 am

Been doing a lot of vamp runs lately - incredible on HHOS (took out indomitable at level 5 with no resources used, no regen and no mid-fight level up) and Hexx Ruins. Is anyone prepping things that aren't Platemail+Shield for vamp at the moment? Can imagine that piety stone thing being good IF you get pactmaker but that seems like too much of a gamble for me.
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