The Art of Negotiation

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The Art of Negotiation

Postby GoatBot on Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:26 am

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Re: The Art of Negotiation

Postby gjaustin on Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:59 pm

I really hope that the Orc's conversion threshold was dropped significantly. Otherwise Humans and Orcs end up at equal power at level 4 and the Human only gets much stronger after that.
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Re: The Art of Negotiation

Postby Joist on Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:11 pm

edit: didn't read post, made stupid comment
Last edited by Joist on Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Art of Negotiation

Postby Lagmalix on Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:12 pm

Meh, why another week without vamp fix?
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Re: The Art of Negotiation

Postby q 3 on Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:22 pm

Yeah, that's a rather enormous nerf to Orcs - they're now even worse than their alpha incarnation, which itself was generally considered underpowered. Unless you're scumming for PISORF or trying for a low level boss kill in a normal difficulty dungeon, I can't think of any situation where an Orc would be superior to a Human. I thought they were fine before, but I suppose I haven't been following the latest bragging to know what the problem was supposed to be.

Interesting change to the bank; you could probably do quite well with a purist Tinker run now (not that you couldn't do quite well with them already).
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Re: The Art of Negotiation

Postby Joist on Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:25 pm

q 3 wrote:Yeah, that's a rather enormous nerf to Orcs - they're now even worse than their alpha incarnation, which itself was generally considered underpowered. Unless you're scumming for PISORF or trying for a low level boss kill in a normal difficulty dungeon, I can't think of any situation where an Orc would be superior to a Human. I thought they were fine before, but I suppose I haven't been following the latest bragging to know what the problem was supposed to be.

Interesting change to the bank; you could probably do quite well with a purist Tinker run now (not that you couldn't do quite well with them already).


The orc thing was probably my fault, I made a few vicious guides and orcs featured heavily.

Particularly orc transmuter - http://www.qcfdesign.com/wiki/DesktopDu ... _Naga_City

Exponential gains + huge conversion levels = shit gets crazy
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Re: The Art of Negotiation

Postby gjaustin on Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:28 pm

Lagmalix wrote:Meh, why another week without vamp fix?


Vampires really aren't that bad. They could use some tweaks so that they scale better to Vicious, but they work very well even in Hard.
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Re: The Art of Negotiation

Postby Joist on Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:31 pm

gjaustin wrote:I really hope that the Orc's conversion threshold was dropped significantly. Otherwise Humans and Orcs end up at equal power at level 4 and the Human only gets much stronger after that.


Nope, 120 still.

tri-sword and alchemist eat 3 gold per potion used.
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Re: The Art of Negotiation

Postby Lagmalix on Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:35 pm

gjaustin wrote:
Lagmalix wrote:Meh, why another week without vamp fix?


Vampires really aren't that bad. They could use some tweaks so that they scale better to Vicious, but they work very well even in Hard.


Well, I don't play that often and when I do it's vicious only so I'm probably biased but really getting a vicious win with the current vamp is either impossible or requires way too much scumming.
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Re: The Art of Negotiation

Postby Darvin on Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:46 pm

Not to my knowledge. Orcs overtake humans around level 8 from what I remember.

It's human rogues that overtake orc rogues at level 8... with a 100-cost conversion.

With the 120 cost for orcs and a HP->Attack booster swap, humans will overtake orcs at level 5. Unless you've got a very high attack bonus (or you're a monk), orcs are pretty well worthless as of this version. Berserkers, Warlords, Rogues, Monks, and Crusaders are the only races I'd even consider playing as Orcs in this version. Sensation stone is totally crap now, too; you can boot it out of your locker now that orcs no longer have exponential conversion gain.

While I can understand the direction the devs are going with this, I'd say they've stripped the Orc of everything that made them distinct from humans. Since PISORF cannot be prepped, there's really no reliable strategic difference between attack bonus and base attack, and now that both humans and orcs have linear progressions they're quite redundant. I'd say either find a way to make the Orc's exponential curve work, or go with an entirely different racial effect.


Earthmother Clearance now has a concealing effect

Wooo, Earthmother love! She actually has a third usable boon now!


Alchemist Scroll / Trisword now have per-use gold costs

That one seems a little weird, but we'll see how it plays out. I'd have preferred a cap on trisword.


Glowing Guardian kill penalty no longer multipled by level difference
Humility and Absolution cost increased
Glowing Guardian rewards long-term worship more

Hmmm... now we need to see if it's possible to get a catapult train going where you level up fast enough to cancel out the piety loss. If so, he may be viable. Still, I much prefer GG's old theme and would rather a return to that paradigm under different numbers.
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