More class challenges thoughts

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More class challenges thoughts

Postby The Avatar on Sun May 06, 2012 10:17 pm

As I think we all agree on, class challenges are awesome, interesting, and useful. Their only problems are the serious difficulty issues, unlocking/recomendations, and how it's thrown economy for a loop.

As of now, unlocking the silver challenges seems kind of random. Also, some silver challenges, such as priest, require late game things, which really should not be needed for the class. I think that it would be better if ALL silver challenges were unlocked by some event. Whether it is at the start of your economic crash, or some other time is up to discussion. Also, no silver should require anything beyond full level class buildings, level 3 blacksmith, level 1 alchemist, or level 1-2 witch. Also, add all gods used to the recommended list.

Okay, on the subject of difficulty, I'm going to divide the challenges into three tiers: Too Hard or Too Easy. I will not comment on the non-updated golds.

Too Hard

Berserker Silver: This is one of the most edge cases of too hard, but it could stand to get a slight nerf because if enough Erosive Eelroots spawn you have to restart. I say just take them out of the mix, and maybe weaken the monsters/add a few more magic ones to the list.

Thief Silver: This challenge is currently one of the most brutal silvers out there. I think you should change the generation so the order of closeness is 9, 8, 7, 2, 3, 4, 5, and finally 6. Next, the monsters need a slight nerf, so it doesn't require you to find most of the boosters before you can fight your first monster. Finally, they need to nerf the bosses hp to somewhere between 300 and 500.

Rogue Silver: This is also a fringe case, but the boss could use a nerf or two on hp. Also, they should make Drac and the Pactmaker start near your position (10 tiles in any direction? Less?)

Priest Silver: This one isn't really too hard, it just shouldn't require you to have a can of Whupaz just to win (Although I managed to beat it without one). If they just nerf the boss, and change it to require something else (Maybe Witch 1, if they make the Zombie Corrosive and Weakening).

Sorcerer Silver: Now that you can no longer bring preps, Eeblis could use a nerf. Perhaps 444 or 500 hp? Also, the fact that you don't always get HALPMEH or PISORF make this challenge a bit random.

Fighter Gold: Ever since they fixed the Platemail bug, this level has become MUCH Harder. The boss needs an hp or damage nerf.

Rogue Gold: The problem here is the tendency for the game to throw you completely unwinnable situations. If they just made the "Islands bigger it would be fine.

Paladin Gold: This is nigh impossible. I say just make the boss a lot easier.

Bloodmage Gold: I haven't tried it, but most of the golds seem too hard

Wizard Gold: This is also a very scumming based level. Without the plate mail bug, you practically need a rock heart.

Too Easy

Wizard Silver: Between WEYTWUT and WONAFYT, the blink isn't challenging enough, and as long as you keep the boss in sight he's incredibly easy.


Any things not mentioned are fine or only need minor changes.

Last, challenges completely ruin the economic progression. I have a kingdom that has only beaten one dungeon (Vince's Vault), but has leveled up all 4 class buildings to max. I say gate bronze challenges to after robbed is completed, and make them only give a one time monetary bonus for their first completion.

Please comment on what I typed.
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Re: More class challenges thoughts

Postby Fran on Sun May 06, 2012 10:28 pm

Well, I agree with almost anything you said, but I don't understand why no one cares about this:
Current Fixes:

Platemail adding double damage resist fixed.
Rogue silver trophy dropping fixed.
Item generation overlapping should be fixed once and for all. Possibly.
Bloodmage / sorcerer /assassin challenges adjusted
Remaining silver / gold challenges added
Bludtopowa synergy with Life Steal mana reward rounding made less punitive.
Vampire tweaked. Again.
New Tutorial added with less focus on text.


This implies that there won't be any challenges for the monster and guild classes as i already mentioned in the thread regarding the update (where no one responded).
Is there really no one beside me who would like to have a vampire challenge and so on? Or am I misinterpreting things?
It's clear that after all, it's up to the devs to decide wether there will be such challenges or not, but I find it hard to believe that no one cares about that.
Do you think there will be challenges for those classes anyway?
Could those be introduced by puzzles?
That's what I'd like to know.
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Re: More class challenges thoughts

Postby Darvin on Sun May 06, 2012 10:42 pm

I'd agree that I'd like to see monster / guild class challenges. I could understand if the monsters only got one challenge each, but the guild could really stand to have them. That said, the Transmuter will probably get another rework in the future so it may not be wise to set up challenges for him at this point.
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Re: More class challenges thoughts

Postby dislekcia on Mon May 07, 2012 10:15 am

The Avatar wrote:Last, challenges completely ruin the economic progression. I have a kingdom that has only beaten one dungeon (Vince's Vault), but has leveled up all 4 class buildings to max. I say gate bronze challenges to after robbed is completed, and make them only give a one time monetary bonus for their first completion.


We're totally aware of this and are going to be changing a few things in the economy in the next update. Challenges, while fun, aren't supposed to be an alternate progress path.
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Re: More class challenges thoughts

Postby Nandrew on Mon May 07, 2012 10:25 am

The idea of monster / guild challenges is not unappealing (and not unconsidered) but right now it's down to time. We'd be looking at half again as many challenges as the number that currently exist, and as pointed out in many places on the forum there's still work to be done on revising / polishing existing challenges as well as some of the standard dungeons. I'm already wary of generating more content if it means a sea of half-arsed work instead of a few good scenarios.

Wouldn't disqualify the idea entirely since I know we'd *like* to get these in, but don't want to make promises either. We'll see what happens, yar? :)
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Re: More class challenges thoughts

Postby The Avatar on Mon May 07, 2012 12:27 pm

@dislekcia: That's good, but it is kind of fun to assassinate the goat lords.

@Nandrew: Hopefully you can put out at least one challenge for each of them.
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Re: More class challenges thoughts

Postby Darvin on Mon May 07, 2012 3:47 pm

Hopefully you can put out at least one challenge for each of them.

Indeed; while 18 challenges may be a bit much, 6-12 is much more reasonable.
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Re: More class challenges thoughts

Postby gjaustin on Mon May 07, 2012 4:53 pm

Darvin wrote:
Hopefully you can put out at least one challenge for each of them.

Indeed; while 18 challenges may be a bit much, 6-12 is much more reasonable.


9 strikes me as the right number.

Two each for the guld classes, since you'll be past the Bronze level at the point anyway.
One each for the monster classes, since if you can unlock them you really only need a quick rundown on them anyway.

I think that the Gorgon challenge should be Purist Labyrinth. Of course, I say that because I have my annotated playthrough that's already dealing with that :)

There should also be a one-shot the boss challenge for Crusaders.
And a challenge for Transmuters where the boss has First Strike, 100% Magic Resist, 1 HP, and a damage of around 750.

And maybe the item reward for Transmuters can be a clickable item that casts PISORF :)
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