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Glowing Guardian Retailation

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 6:44 am
by tscho
the retaliation is too strong in my opinion there are too few cases where someone would benefit from destroying the altar. burning all other altars are actually an option so i dont understand why he shouldnt be.

I would suggest it shouldn't take the potions because he doesn't like touching potions anyway. This wouldn't make him too easygoing.

Re: Glowing Guardian Retailation

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 7:34 am
by Joist
You'd destroy JJ's altar?

You've got balls, kid.

Re: Glowing Guardian Retailation

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 9:43 am
by tscho
why not if u either are dead anyway and need that piety for a chance with dracul
or if u start with 2 altar in reach u can start a gamble with no losses

Re: Glowing Guardian Retailation

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 10:17 am
by Joist
Good points, I had to look up what GGs was 'cause he's just on my "do not desecrate" list. Yeah it's super steep, could be brought down a bit.

Re: Glowing Guardian Retailation

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 4:24 pm
by Darvin
I had to look up what GGs was 'cause he's just on my "do not desecrate" list.

Yup, he's near the top of my "do not desecrate" list as well.

He used to leave your locker item alone. Back then he could be desecrated pretty easily by Orcs, and you'd just convert everything but your locker item before doing so. In a good scenario, you'd only really lose out on two potions. Now that he takes your locker item and "convert everything including the kitchen sink" orcs are gone, and there's more gold to buy stuff from shops, GG is essentially untouchable. On top of this, most characters are quite dependent on their glyphs, and losing them is essentially an irreplaceable loss.

Re: Glowing Guardian Retailation

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 5:09 pm
by The Avatar
I agree. Perhaps just your potions?

Re: Glowing Guardian Retailation

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 5:16 pm
by Darvin
The big issue with tweaking GG is that he could very easily swing from being a massive penalty to being no penalty at all. For instance, a Trisword or Alchemist Scroll user who just leaves potions lying in the ground would lose literally nothing in that case. We already had a big problem back in those early days with the Trisword Rogue whose inventory was empty aside from his locker item, who could desecrate GG and literally lose nothing in doing so.

It's entirely possible to liquidate your inventory of value and turn everything into CP. The only time GG's penalty ever means anything is if the item in question is literally so valuable you cannot ever afford to lose it... in which case GG's penalty is unbearably high.


On the other hand, Earthmother and Binlor have pretty wimpy punishments. Especially now that a burn salve cures all corrosion, the Earthmother is a bit of a joke in that regard. For characters with no resists, Binlor is easy prey as well. When you compare that to a 50% chance of instant and irrevocable death... well, there's a reason 90% of (non-agnostic collar) altar desecrations I perform are against those two.

Re: Glowing Guardian Retailation

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 8:00 pm
by Sythion
The Avatar wrote:I agree. Perhaps just your potions?


How about all your potions and all potions on the current level?

Re: Glowing Guardian Retailation

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 8:04 pm
by Sythion
Darvin wrote:It's entirely possible to liquidate your inventory of value and turn everything into CP. The only time GG's penalty ever means anything is if the item in question is literally so valuable you cannot ever afford to lose it... in which case GG's penalty is unbearably high.


I don't know about this.. Even if I left all potions on the ground (which I should get in the habit of doing), that still means losing all glyphs. That pretty much limits descration of GG to physical only builds or just after you're done blasting the boss with all your mana.

This issue is more prevalent if you're actually playing GG.

Re: Glowing Guardian Retailation

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 8:08 pm
by Darvin
I don't know about this.. Even if I left all potions on the ground (which I should get in the habit of doing), that still means losing all glyphs. That pretty much limits descration of GG to physical only builds or just after you're done blasting the boss with all your mana.

You can leave glyphs on the ground. But yes, this is a huge issue for Paladins and Warlords, who can't just convert their glyphs and hope to find something better.

Back in early beta, there was a huge synergy between the Trisword and desecrating GG. The original trisword was +27 base attack (no joke) but only when it was the only item in your inventory. So people would prep it, convert their healing and mana potion, then proceed to go on a murdering rampage. Desecrating GG was meaningless since he left your locker items alone back then and this was your ONLY item in your inventory. Then, in the end-game, you'd simply pick up the stuff you actually wanted to use (turning Trisword into a dead weight - back then locker items effectively couldn't be converted) and finish off the boss.

The point is not necessarily specific strategies, but rather the general problem that GG's punishment can very easily be ignored if your inventory is devoid of anything irreplaceable.