Resist down

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Resist down

Postby Bloggorus on Mon May 28, 2012 4:59 am

Seriously, this needs to be addressed. I've been playing around with monks and GG, and the way resists down works is INCREDIBLY infuriating.

None of the other stat reductions are permanent, why is this one?

It requires no strategy, no forward thinking, no level or potion juggling.

Monsters with resist down are either easy exp, or a wall you cant destroy or transmute.
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Re: Resist down

Postby Darvin on Mon May 28, 2012 5:34 am

The duality of resist-down makes the affliction virtually impossible to balance. Against characters without resistances, it literally does nothing and those characters are free to attack without any hazards. For characters with resistances, the losses are absolutely enormous and you can only ever consider attacking such a monster if you can 1-hit them. Furthermore, as I mentioned in the other thread, this has largely been the end of characters who pick up just a few articles of resistances. It's not worth the opportunity cost of lost kills from resist-down monsters.
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Re: Resist down

Postby Bloggorus on Mon May 28, 2012 5:48 am

I think all of the balance issues stem from the permanence of the debuff.

Imagine if poison and mana burn were equally as incurable.

It would make hitting any monsters with them completely impossible unless you were straight spellcaster or straight melee.

Defuffs are fun because they force players to use forward planning and strategy. Taking a poison or mana burn is ok if you are confident you can handle yourself until they can be cured. They represent a surmountable challenge.

Permanent debuffs are not fun because all they represent is bad decisions and misclicks.
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Re: Resist down

Postby TigerKnee on Mon May 28, 2012 6:05 am

I don't have much to add to the topic, since I agree with all the points here and those made before this topic.

I do like to note that the devs normally partition their changes to specifically "herd" players to test out what they want, without outright saying "Hey, go test GG this version", so if you don't see any changes on resists next version it might be that they figure there's something more important than that to focus on first.

So, uh, don't "pull a Lujo", I guess, by now I'm fairly certain they should know of this issue.
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Re: Resist down

Postby Bloggorus on Mon May 28, 2012 6:11 am

Lol @ 'pull a Lujo".

Just raging due to losing three runs in a row because i mis-clicked on resist down monsters.

Apologies for rant :)
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Re: Resist down

Postby The Avatar on Mon May 28, 2012 3:41 pm

@Darvin: I disagree. There is dualty in all of the debuffs (i.e. Wizard won't really care about poison, while berserkers will), but they are still balanced. Still, I see your point. Most debuffs are bad to most and fine to a few, while resist down is pointless for most, while unfair to a few.

Yet I think we can all agree it needs to not be permanent.
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Re: Resist down

Postby Darvin on Mon May 28, 2012 5:02 pm

@Darvin: I disagree. There is dualty in all of the debuffs (i.e. Wizard won't really care about poison, while berserkers will), but they are still balanced. Still, I see your point. Most debuffs are bad to most and fine to a few, while resist down is pointless for most, while unfair to a few.

There is no duality with other afflictions, there is a spectrum that runs from those that are heavily affected to those that are lightly affected, and it's very rare you'll find outright immunity. With resist-down, you either take a massive loss to your combat power, or you suffer nothing. There is no spectrum, there is no mitigation, there is only those who are crippled by the effect, and those that are unaffected by it.
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Re: Resist down

Postby The Avatar on Mon May 28, 2012 8:30 pm

Fine, but one end of the spectrum is practically immune while the other is crippled. Basically, resist down only has the ends of the spectrum.
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Re: Resist down

Postby Darvin on Mon May 28, 2012 9:35 pm

Basically, resist down only has the ends of the spectrum.

This is exactly my point. You either fall into one or the other extreme, there is no middle ground.
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Re: Resist down

Postby Blovski on Mon May 28, 2012 11:22 pm

Hm, my perspective on the res-down thing is that it is more in line with corrode/weaken than mana burn/poison. Consequently, a reflex/quicksilver (and GG cleansing boon/Jehora last boon) cure would be pretty nice (especially because these potions are not especially synergistic with res-down characters, and that'd give an interesting late-game relationship with TT/gods which aren't Binlor for res-chars fighting The Matron or Tomithy or something like that).
I'd also suggest a small, maybe 5% restoration on level up, so you can fight res downers a little even without potion preps.

I think a complete restoration on level up would make the res-down monsters as-is basically insignificant.

Also, as someone who's been trying to do Slime Pit with the berserker, I think there are some situations under the current system where res-down is an acceptable trade-off for Xp opportunities.
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