I'm noob... and i'm stuck!

[Lujo]

Never thought about TT as a gold farm? O.O

You might remember my really annoying minimalist unlock campaign/dev harangue from way back? * That all started when I ran out of gold on my regular profile while trying to beat old Gaan'Telet with everything. A bunch of guys were always rolling in money, but they are megapro's, I never ever had a decent cache.

So I decided that the only way to play the game economicaly is to always get TT and the gloves (which I even lockered for a good while). The minimalist unlock thing that sprouted from that only really happened because I didn't want to waste time and resources on stuff (including buildings) that I didn't need because I figured I'd never grind enough money for vicious runs if I did that. It was a "deal with the very non-casual friendly gold drain from ridiculous vicious runs" playthrough not a powergaming one. And this was before the economy got hit.



The only reason the whole thing ended as a lolstopm was because it turned out TT was silly powerfull, the conversions were silly powerfull, dodege + resists turned out to be insane, and since I've unlocked GG by accident (I didn't even know how to use him properly before hand, and never really bothered with learning)... Well, we all know what happened. But the big deal was that for a casual guy (or a casualy inclined guy, or a really lazy pro), the only way to play the game without money problems is to get TT on every run.

And if I remember correctly, there were maybe 2 people besides me on the boards who even considered TT as a serious god in need of nerfs rather than buffs - most people were clueless (or silent) about the potions, most people didn't know that with good enough dodge and perma-piety-on-hit-gain-poison you could technicaly avoid losing piety forever, and since pro's didn't care for money, noone bothered with him. And if you balance all his boons to make him just moderately attractive, he'll still be the best reliable income source in the game by far.

Which was really puzzling for me, I have to say. For a casual guy you HAD to have him for the gold gain (enormous difference in game progression with/without him), and his boons are/were among the best out there. You actually get REWARDED for taking a perma poison, or the potion combo, or the free XP, or dodge... If all his boons said "you gain 10 gold" he'd still be the deity I'd like to have around in any dungeon for the better part of the game. Hell, i'd take a piety farm with 5 "25 piety for 10 gold" boon slots and all TT quirks in any run.


* ASIDE: Wow, if we had this sort of interaction from the dev's back then, the harangue part would never have happened. I applaud the new approach wholeheartedly!

[Nandrew]

[Lujo]

Well, I hope you don't end up regretting the approach. I'm sure it takes time away from devving but it saves ages of time and tons of energy testing. It's certain to prevent testing/powergaming clumps that we've had a couple of times

Also, I'm not sure I was coherent enought in the post up there, but what I wanted to say is that BEFORE the economy hit, getting a smooth gold flow was impossible for all but a handfull of guys. Playing the game without TT was an excercise in frustration, and I'm sure there would've been a lot more feedback on it if normal people bothered to post about it.

What I wanted to make clear is that, while exploity as hell, TT was necessary as a minimalist unlock for regular people JUST for the gold gain. I literaly had moments like: "Oh, so the TT potions ARE actually good for something? Lol!" I've been taking them as a gold farm boon, and a way to convert one potion into 2 potions to carry out for more gold (or at least I hoped I was getting a proffit out of it). If TT's boons were completely blank, gave nothing BUT the gold, just 5 buttons that said "spend 25 piety, gain 10 gold, that's it", he'd still probably be the god you'd want in any run (with something to switch to after you've dont farming, or from after you've killed the boss and want to clear popcorn for money).

And this was before the economy hit. Consider it

[TigerKnee]

When TT's potion boons were considered bad, it was a time where they converted 1 for 1... in that case, the piety cost for whatever benefit you gained is really iffy.

When they changed it to 1 for 2 I think people started using it.

[Lujo]

True, true, but it took a while. And if people were using them, they sure weren't talking about it.

[Darvin]

[The Avatar]

Err... Really? I never really read the effects, I just used it and said "Cool, I hit twice!" I also threw down a quicksilver and later on got a free dodge. So I always used them together. Later on I figured out that I should save my Reflex till the dodge. Sometimes it's better just to try, and not to read.

[TigerKnee]

I still don't understand what the "synergy" is anyway, Reflex effectively gives you 1 extra hit, and Dodge... uh, does the same thing?

[Lujo]

The "sinergy" is that you can hit a guy twice without getting hit yourself. It's like a dobule cydstepp that runs on popcorn instead of mana, which nobody at the time bothered too much with seeing as cydstepp was silly powerful.

Which was one of my original complaints on the forums - cydstepp was so powerfull (and straigtforward) people weren't noticing OTHER potentialy more powerfull but less obvious stuff. Like the fact that TT was a bit way too good back then.

[Sidestepper]

Yeah, basically, successive death protections are way better than an equal number of staggered protections. This is why the Fighter's innate death protection doesn't get talked about much.