[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 120: preg_filter(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 120: preg_filter(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
QCF Design Community • View topic - Something different: An annotated game of kingdom management


Something different: An annotated game of kingdom management

All things Desktop Dungeons

Re: Something different: An annotated game of kingdom manage

Postby Bloggorus on Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:54 am

This thread asks interesting questions about how much of the game is regular 'RPG' progression, and how much is balanced puzzle game 'options'.

So hings like bezaar, the bank and the witch provide mroe options at no more cost, and if you focus on those completely you can actually make the game easier for yourself.

Just unlocking random stuff an make the game harder, and unlocking the wrong things can make the game super hard...
User avatar
Bloggorus
 
Posts: 395
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:59 pm
Location: Orstraleeea

Mass Murder is Sound Fiscal Policy

Postby Sidestepper on Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:55 am

While I'm very glad to have found the Stone, making use of it requires sinking 1200 gold into the Alchemist's Lab. I have the money for it, but right now I'd rather spend that 1200 gold on the Thieves' Guild, so I do.

I guess I should explain myself. I'm trying to push my Bazaar and my Bank all the way to level 3. Right now I'm at 2/2, having just used the money from the buy out quest to upgrade the Bazaar to 2. The next story beat will unlock the Bank-3 quest, which is staged in the Shifting Passages. This is why I've been so keen to open up the northern routes. After the Bank-3 is finished, the next storybeat will ask for yet another buyout in one of the southern dungeons (Hexx Ruins or Ick Swamp, can't remember which), which will bring the Bazaar up to level 3. This means that I also need to be opening the southern routes, and doing that requires the Rogue, which is a Tier-2 Thieves' Guild hero.

Got all that?

The Philosopher's Stone is good for entirely unrelated reasons. Having it allows you to build the Alchemist's Lab. The lab is good, but I don't want short-term preps right now. What I do want is the Tinker, who only starts appearing after you get a lab. The Tinker makes for an awesome scout and is the quickest way to unlock certain assets. Having him on your roster also enables the secret bonus subdungeons, which makes all of your future runs potentially more powerful.

So anyways, I need to kill time for the next story beat, the southern route is still blocked, and I just enabled the Rogue class. It should be pretty obvious what I'm going to do next.

Image
Here's a little known thing about Tikki Tooki and plants. It doesn't look like it, but plants apply their effects by hitting you with an invisible zero-damage attack. This attack can be dodged. Since TT awards you 3 piety for dodging, and the Rogue has a 25% dodge chance, that means that each plant is worth 0.75 piety on average. If you get the Dodge boon, this goes up to 1 piety almost exactly. So don't clear out those plants until after you've started worshiping TT, and try to hold out for the Dodge boon if you can.

Anyways, the Swamp Romp opens up Hexx Ruins and also prompts the next story beat. It turns out that the bankers want me to summarily execute every living thing in the Shifting Passages. It's a good thing I recently opened up that dungeon. Well, unless you happen to live there, then I guess that actually kind of sucks. Sorry about that.

At first I send a Sorcerer. This wasn't a very good idea. Sorcerers really need to find a good glyph right away. They are much more consistent once the fireball magnet prep is available. I doubt that my Sorcerer would have been able to get a perfect clear. We'll never know, because he got EPICALLY TROLL'D by Jehora Jeheyu

Image
JJ normally gives you a WEYTWUT glyph when you join, but for some reason he doesn't do this in the starter dungeon. This is pretty much a death sentence. RIP Vision Fingrsnaq, but don't think that the bankers will forgive your debt just because you died serving them. Your widow and children have already been sold upstream. Actually, that happened before you even died, so I guess you got trolled twice.

I need something that won't run out of gas after beating both bosses. I decide that a halfling Priest would work, so i move to buy the halfling upgrade. I almost balk at the 500 gold price tag. That is way more than it used to be! In the end, I'm going to want this anyway, and a successful completion of the quest is worth 800 on top of the normal take, so it shouldn't slow down my development by too much.

To make a halfling Priest really shine, I'd need a Trisword, but that item may as well be on another planet as far as I'm considered. I don't even have a locker yet!

Image
Hey, it's a non-trollface JJ altar. I guess Fingrsnaq did good after all. Too bad we already sold his family off. No refunds, etc.

Image
Lord Gobb is the other boss. It's going to take a pile of potions to take him down.

Image
It turns out that the subdungeon is the zombie money trap. This is one of the best subdungeons out there. Tons of space to explore, and the zombies themselves can be exploited by certain classes. Like Priests, for example.

Image
Killing Gob and the changeling took a lot of resources. I probably wouldn't have made it without exploiting the zombies and then following that up with a well timed Chaos Avatar. As it stands, I am just barely able to clear out the remaining monsters.

Image
Which is another way of saying that I succeeded.

The bankers are happy, and I'm now rocking a level three Bank. This will make a good long term goldsink in the future, but for now I'm content with the higher allowance and impending storybeat, which should start the final Bezar quest.
Last edited by Sidestepper on Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sidestepper
 
Posts: 849
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:36 am

Adventures in the East

Postby Sidestepper on Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:59 am

With the Bank quest line complete, I'm expecting the next story beat to open the final Bezar quest. In the meantime, there is a lot of low-hanging fruit for me to pluck.

Image
With the key north and south routes now opened up, I'm feeling a lot less pressure to upgrade my guilds. I take this opportunity to buy the Alchemy Lab.

Image
I start sending heroes into the Den of Danger, ostensibly to work on the Beginner's Brigade quest but really to look for the Tinker. My very first scout finds a LEMMISI near the spawn. Since I am not taking this run very seriously, I spam the hell out of it and am pleased to see a hidden staircase in the upper left corner.

Image
And now I have a Tinker. I go ahead and withdraw my Thief. No way he can take Bleaty, not after burning over half the map at level 2.

The Tinker is awesome because you can use him to quickly search for important subdungeons. This is very good for unlocking gods, since their subdungeons are usually harsh and can completely spoil a run if encountered normally. Also, as a proper adventurer, I think that he is often underrated and overlooked.

I'm going to go ahead and complete my pantheon. Going from one altar to three is a big deal. I start by sending my Tinker to the east, after Glowing Guardian.

I realize almost right away that the commando strategy won't work for GG. His quest is very involved, and any character that can complete it could also just finish the dungeon normally. So that's exactly what I decide to do.

Image
The Tinker can buy EVERYTHING. Between conversions and gear, he's a total beast. I also think that he is guaranteed to get a bonus dungeon if the stage you're on allows one. Almost all of the high level monsters are dead before even finding Count Blah Blah, and I have a Chaos Avatar just waiting to happen.

Image
I found Glowing Guardian, as expected. I don't actually do anything with him until the dungeon is safely cleared.

Image
Chasing down the Dark Ones is very resource intensive and doesn't give you any experience. Total pain in the ass.

Image
No important badges, but that wasn't the point.

Now that I have GG, Dracul can start appearing in the east as well. He doesn't spawn as reliably, but that's why I waited to do this kind of stuff until I had the Tinker. It usually takes less than a minute to check the subdungeon when you start out knowing where the staircases are.

Image
As it happens, I find Dracul immediately. He's a total dong when you first meet him. After you accept his faith, he reduces your max hp to 1 and then kicks out. I don't need that kind of garbage, so I just withdraw. Now that he's part of the pantheon, we won't have to deal with his stupid hazing ritual ever again.

Image
While I'm at it, I start hunting for the Witch as well. It takes 5 tries to find her. This would have taken forever normally, but with the Tinker I can do it before the water is done boiling for my tea.

Image
PS devs I have posted this in the bugs forum before, but you still haven't attached a proper sprite to the Witch.

The 1st level Witch Hut is useless (it gives you the option to swap your Health or Mana potions for Fortitude and Burn Salves), but all of the successive upgrades are fantastic. Chasing down the locations for her quests will be a major motivating factor when deciding which areas to explore next.

And at this point, we are up to date. I didn't get prompted about Bezar after clearing the Eastern Tundra, so I guess that quest happens in the Ick Swamp instead of Hexx Ruins. Bother.

Options I am considering:
1) Use the Tinker to quickly pick up the remaining 4 gods.
2) Since I have halflings now, go ahead and unlock the Venom Ward
3) Clear the Hexx Ruins to open the way for the last Bezar quest. Preferably done right after doing item 2)
4) Peck away at the Den of Danger quests. I think that the Crystal Ball and Helm of Heroism can be found there.
5) Improve my item pool by completing class challenges.
6) Go ahead and get the gnomes, so that I can unlock the Soul Orb
7) Scum like hell with the Tinker so that I can get orcs and goblins
8) Do as many parts of Complicated Tasks that I can with my current map pool
Sidestepper
 
Posts: 849
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:36 am

Re: Something different: An annotated game of kingdom manage

Postby Nandrew on Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:26 am

Interesting thread. Lots of info from reading it, and we can add extra economic support and tweaks based around these experiences.

There is one early-game item that I would get from the Blacksmith right off the bat, though: the Slayer Wand. Your first prep after buying a new building is always free, so you may as well grab it. That, and it's dirt cheap to prep. Even my most impoverished characters tend to be capable of forking out for it, and it's miles more useful than the old Monster Whistle.
User avatar
Nandrew
 
Posts: 569
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:59 pm

Re: Something different: An annotated game of kingdom manage

Postby Lujo on Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:36 am

Slayer wand is great for every run where you're not going for EDIT: Purist. Also, is unlocking gods except TT better for this sort of thing or worse?

It saves TIME, but it deffinitely doesn't save money. Nothing compares to TT for a quick ECON build.
Last edited by Lujo on Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I almost got pwned by Shifty Brickwork!
User avatar
Lujo
 
Posts: 3793
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:47 am

Re: Something different: An annotated game of kingdom manage

Postby Nandrew on Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:29 pm

User avatar
Nandrew
 
Posts: 569
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:59 pm

Re: Something different: An annotated game of kingdom manage

Postby Darvin on Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:00 pm

West is definitely the easiest path (Dragon Isles notwithstanding). East is the hardest path to get started, but after you get more than a few steps in the south is by far the most challenging, with Ick Swamp and Slime Pit being hands down the two hardest non-vicious levels in the game by a significant margin.

I'd definitely agree that north/south are the directions veterans should pursue, while west probably makes the most sense for a beginner. Oh, and I believe the Hexx Ruins buyout only becomes available after you've beaten Hexx Ruins.
User avatar
Darvin
 
Posts: 4355
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:44 am

Re: Something different: An annotated game of kingdom manage

Postby The Avatar on Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:07 pm

That should probably be more obvious. It would be unfortunate if they went for east first and got crushed. You don't want to demoralize new players too much.
We made an expansion and it is awesome. Really, you should check it out, especially if you're looking for some extra challenge.

Download over at ddmod.weebly.com!
User avatar
The Avatar
 
Posts: 4720
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:52 pm

Re: Something different: An annotated game of kingdom manage

Postby gjaustin on Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:27 pm

Personally, I think the free upgrade to get Berserker should be brought back.

That'll encourage players to go West and help them start making progress.
gjaustin
 
Posts: 1113
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:29 am

Re: Something different: An annotated game of kingdom manage

Postby Lujo on Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:37 pm

I almost got pwned by Shifty Brickwork!
User avatar
Lujo
 
Posts: 3793
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:47 am

PreviousNext

Return to Desktop Dungeons

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 68 guests