The "nice" update!

[Blovski]

^
Rogues are also much worse at getting hit to make the prediction work, though, and they get nothing out of the first strike function (like other classes do) so it's a mixed lot.

[TigerKnee]

Well, one way to let Rogues use it is that instead of checking of a "First Strike" buff and disabling glyph use, instead it checks for "GetInThar" buff and disables repeated usage based on that.

Although that might make the buff icons a bit more crowded than it should be.

[Blovski]

Thoughts on whether the rogue with new getindare would be overpowered:

I don't think so - an extra 15% dodge + prediction for 9 mana (cf. Cydstepp's 100%, slightly more unstable effect for 10) isn't in and of itself fantastic in the endgame, and you need to get hit to use the predictor in most circumstances. And for rogues, as well, it's only an amplification of a pre-existing power rather than a whole new advantage as it is for other classes.

(Also repeat casting wastes the first strike part of it, which is a disincentive to stack it on a normal character.)

It would make the getindare glyph more useful for rogues in a boss fight, true, but it's already more useful for other characters, and it's potentially more useful than but not nearly as reliable as Cydstepp is for rogues ATM. I think it's kind of a design flaw to have a glyph be literally useless for just one class.

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Comparison with a cydstepp rogue:

With a standard cydstepping rogue I aim/hope to get just enough health to take a hit from the boss, so that with one mid-fight level up I can hit them at least 5 times (hit, cydstepp, level, cast, hit, cydstepp, first strike), which is normally enough for a hard boss, or 6 if I get a dodge in/have quicksilver potion. That's without any unusual god powers, other sources of death protection etc.. If I can't get enough health, I get three guaranteed strikes off and can probably level off higher level enemies.

With a getindare rogue the need to get hit by other things to get the dodge means you'll probably have a much harder time hitting the boss 5 times over the space of two levels just because you're going to need to use health to get the indicator to show and you can't rely on the dodge chance definitely coming up. Planning to use Getindare's prediction to get multiple dodges off also means you need to leave a lot of low-damage *unslowed* first-strikers around, which makes mid-boss levelling much harder.

That said, outside the specific context of a boss fight or other serious-catapult antics, I think getindare is still potentially very useful for rogues as a glyph to keep around so you can maximise the usefulness of dodges you'd get anyway and it would offer an alternative cydstepp-a-like end-game for TT rogues, I don't think it would be overpowered (Rogues are usually big conversion hogs anyway, so it's still an interesting choice on whether to keep it).

[Blovski]

OH, also, I've been playing around with new lemisi. It is definitely smarter now, and altar reveals in particular are *great* for the early game. I need to leverage it a bit better but it's much improved now.

Half-dragon dragon isles is shudder-worthy even with current binlor fiddling (I'm hoping to get it out of the way before the devs fix it : p ). Didn't even make it to the matron last run, and that was with the binlor->JJ ideal combination and a soul orb (maybe GG/late-game EM for this one). Rough stuff.

[The Avatar]

I would definitely not consider Binlor to JJ ideal. In fact, it is one of the worse choices. Exploring with JJ is one of his biggest piety gains, and you've already explored most of the map using Binlor. Next time, try converting into GG or Drac. I found them much more effective for my runs.

[Darvin]

Binlor to JJ works, but only if you get to 100 piety very quickly and then immediately hop to JJ with less than a quarter of the map explored. You almost never get a chance to do this.

Big problem with JJ in general is if you don't start your worship very early there's no point in joining his religion period.

[The Avatar]

Exactly. You won't be getting that 100 piety on DI if you want a good amount of Magic Res.