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Re: The Desktop Dungeons beta is here!

PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:25 pm
by michal.lewtak
BRING IT ON!!!

Image
(drawn on request by my friend Spliter - http://catboxbeta.blogspot.com/)

Re: The Desktop Dungeons beta is here!

PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:38 pm
by zeemeerman2
Where did you get that leather armor?

Re: The Desktop Dungeons beta is here!

PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:53 pm
by michal.lewtak
zeemeerman2 wrote:Where did you get that leather armor?

I forgot to tell my friend it's blue armor... just acknowledge the funny picture :(

Re: The Desktop Dungeons beta is here!

PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:42 pm
by michal.lewtak
dislekcia wrote:
232 wrote:
michal.lewtak wrote:...and it should say exactly how much mana/hp it'll consume and how much it will leave you and the enemy with...


+1, this would be nice. Mental arithmetic for plain attacks is easy for me, but when it starts getting into resistances I break out the calculator as well.


All damage prediction should take resistances into account, FYI. Or is this pre-planning for combat where you can't see the predictions?

No, this is not seeing the actual numbers. Say you can survive 3 attacks from some enemy and it seems that you'll kill him in 3 blows... but you don't see the numbers, so you grab the calculator and see if his health divided by three equals your damage minus his resistance... In most situations the battle prediction rectangles tell you all you need to know, but there are situations like described above where you just have to make sure if it's worth the effort, or if you'll just waste your hp for nothing.
Also, please make the damage prediction rectangles darker, the way they are in the alpha.
Another thing - when I right-click to cancel a glyph while my mouse is on an enemy, the battle prediction needs to update to show info for a regular attack.

Where can I report all these bugs and suggestions in a proper way so that 200 people aren't saying the same thing over and over again?

Re: The Desktop Dungeons beta is here!

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:24 am
by dislekcia
Herborist wrote:Speaking of damage predictions, I think there's something wrong with how the game handles the sorcerer. It might be just me, but I don't think it's taking into account the sorcerer's second ability (he deals magic damage based on his level). I've killed things that said "safe" instead of "victory."


You're right, Sorc shield damage isn't predicted properly yet. The health bar can't handle multiple damage sources at the moment... We'll get there though.

Re: The Desktop Dungeons beta is here!

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:26 am
by dislekcia
spoomak wrote:About the Kingdom interface... You should use the big character portraits in the character selection. Because they're so awesome. When the user is selecting race, class and startup kit, the UI should remember the last time's selections.


See this thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=235

Big portraits are def the plan, small icons were just to fit stuff in on top of all that text... You don't want to know what the map screen looked like a few days ago. Similar problem.

Re: The Desktop Dungeons beta is here!

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:30 am
by dislekcia
Hero of the Beach wrote:Sorry, this sounds like a step in the wrong direction. Currently the issue with the adventure loadout screen is that the buttons are small and the menu flow is counter intuitive, moving around the screen in odd directions. Taking those buttons and dragging them all over town will result in a minigame of hide and go seek every time you start a new adventure, at least until you memorize where everything is by rote.

I think the menu in the freeware version was laid out just about ideally, in that you had your races, you had your classes and then you had your destination, and there were clear dividing lines between them. Given the new number of dungeons, it makes sense for destination to come first, but the loadout still needs to be clear and cleanly organized.

If you wanted to split the difference you could do portrait magnifications that clearly pointed to where they're supposed to come from in town or something like that, which would allow for big buttons that could be easily moved, but I think it's fundamentally confusing to leave town, go to the world map, click on a dungeon, and then suddenly be back in town. I thought something had broken at first.

A better system, I think, would be to have a completely separate adventure loadout screen, and keeping the clickable buildings for their new town functions and upgrades. That way you still get to use the nice map in an interactive way, but nobody will be confused. :)


Oh right, so the map switch was confusing? Hmm... The overall design principle is sort of like you're setting up a character sheet at the moment, so where do you want to go, who are you, what do you want to take with you - in terms of question progression. Thanks for noting that we had to change the order ;)

Would a clear indication of the remaining steps in the panel on the right help, maybe? Right now that's basically wasted space.

Re: The Desktop Dungeons beta is here!

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:33 am
by dislekcia
Snowy wrote:I really dislike the new grinding aspect of the money system, especially with the rewards decreasing for the boss trophies. I've been playing for like 6 or 7 hours now and the pace has slowed almost to a halt. I've only unlocked one of the third tier classes.

I don't mean to sound like someone who always says "but it was better in the oooollllld version," but I think what DD alpha did right was having classes unlock immediately after mastery of the previous tier, which was very satisfying, and then by having many challenges (defeating Snake Pit, Library, Boss Hive, with each class, etc) available to players who've mastered all the classes.

Having unlocks be gold-dependent (especially with gold being so scarce relative to the unlock requirements) just makes it grindy--even when you know you've mastered a class, you have to play seven or eight times or more, since the boss trophies decrease in value, agh, just to unlock the next level.

In short: having the pace of the game be controlled by grinding for gold is way, way, way less satisfying than having it be controlled by mastery of previous classes. If you want to slow the pace down, maybe just add more challenges, like "defeat Creeplight Ruins with all classes" or something?

(Speaking of which, right now there's no motivation to try out different classes on each dungeon--I just go with what's most well-suited. Even having a record of which classes have defeated what dungeons would be nice.)


Well, there definitely aren't enough quests yet. We know that, it's kinda that problem and the difficulty curve that the beta is here to help us solve. The idea with the boss trophy value decrease is that you can't grind the same dungeon, you need to go fight more boss types, which have different weaknesses, so you'd use different classes. It's just that right now there are low dungeon numbers, so there are less bosses in the pool.

Try upgrading the Thieves and using their gold earning preparations (bet on boss is awesome) as well. We're really trying to move away from the non-choice that gold was in the alpha...

Re: The Desktop Dungeons beta is here!

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:37 am
by dislekcia
michal.lewtak wrote:BRING IT ON!!!

Image
(drawn on request by my friend Spliter - http://catboxbeta.blogspot.com/)


Win ;)

Try for 5 swords, it's theoretically possible...

Re: The Desktop Dungeons beta is here!

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:39 am
by dislekcia
michal.lewtak wrote:No, this is not seeing the actual numbers. Say you can survive 3 attacks from some enemy and it seems that you'll kill him in 3 blows... but you don't see the numbers, so you grab the calculator and see if his health divided by three equals your damage minus his resistance... In most situations the battle prediction rectangles tell you all you need to know, but there are situations like described above where you just have to make sure if it's worth the effort, or if you'll just waste your hp for nothing.
Also, please make the damage prediction rectangles darker, the way they are in the alpha.
Another thing - when I right-click to cancel a glyph while my mouse is on an enemy, the battle prediction needs to update to show info for a regular attack.

Where can I report all these bugs and suggestions in a proper way so that 200 people aren't saying the same thing over and over again?


Ok, so seeing the numbers per attack would make it easier? We'll have to see if we can squeeze that in, already having issues with text size... Noted on the hp bar colour, totally want to change that entire element, actually.

Is the battle prediction still not changing right now? I thought that was part of the update just now...