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Vicious Gaan'Telet Revisited

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Re: Vicious Gaan'Telet Revisited

Postby Nandrew on Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:55 pm

Maybe I'll revisit Vicious GT one day, too.

I understand that people have problems with this dungeon, but our earnest balance considerations and bugfixes all lie elsewhere. This dungeon is the ridiculous head-desk obstacle for players who simply refuse to be defeated by anything else -- so any talk of "fairness" or "balance" is unfortunately going to be ignored as a rule of thumb. The percentage of the player base who realistically need this as a challenge to tackle is going to be incredibly small.

I'm more inclined to respond to problems that affect Hard GT, since that dungeon is an official part of gameplay progression. And even that one hasn't hit our priority lists just yet.
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Re: Vicious Gaan'Telet Revisited

Postby Nandrew on Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:57 pm

Though as a point of relief, I'll add that we're learning a lot from the polish efforts on other directional / special situation dungeons, particularly Naga City. If GT gets an improvement, it'll be broadened to support more playstyles.
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Re: Vicious Gaan'Telet Revisited

Postby Darvin on Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:52 pm

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Re: Vicious Gaan'Telet Revisited

Postby Lujo on Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:39 pm

Thanks for the response, and I know it's not on any priorites list - and can't be. If for no other reason then because any change to almost anything affects it. I mostly use it to stress-test stuff, and I guess I learned a lot from these couple of runs. It causes massive frustration and brings out the worst in me, but it also provides plenty of feedback and thought material for my personal testing elsewhere. I learned quite a bit in there.

I'm just putting it all out there for anyone who's into it, and to provide feedbak for when and if it's taken into consideration. The fact that is regualrly crashes the game for me (and nothing else does) is also interesting, I'd love to figure out exactly why.

And, if it's not too much a bother, as long as you don't really care about it, could you please remove the mana burn from Horratio? Please? You don't have to fiddle with it at all in any other way, just that one little thing on one monster. If I'm the only guy playing it then I'm 100% of the playebase invested in it, and we, as a community of Gaan'Telet fanatics, really think that mana burn shold go. Even if "we" is just me ATM for all practical purposes. :lol:

I'm also planning on doing a "Let's play: Gaan'Telet" series as soon as I get rid of my ridiculous vaguely Russian accent.
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Re: Vicious Gaan'Telet Revisited

Postby The Avatar on Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:42 pm

Please tell us when it's up, that'll be interesting.

Also, the new life steal in Gaan-Telet is waaay to mean on later floors.
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Re: Vicious Gaan'Telet Revisited

Postby Lujo on Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:55 pm

There never was a good way to deal with the wraith floor without exploring all of it and then getting down to bussiness. Bloodtopowa does wonders against Vampires, though, as they don't seem to steal blood of you unless you're above the threshold. Hmmm, either that or if you reveal a bunch of them only one steals your HP. Which is then a bug. Also, make sure to kill them while standing next to as many as possible, so they dont go dark.

But the Warith floor I hate with a passion, as I've allready said. It's a pure drain of resources, especially due to Pissorf being unreliable in when guys do blink and when they don't.

And as for the let's play - well, having a save game feature would help a great deal because my brain shuts off when I open my mouth. And if I don't talk while I play, I play too fast to comment. And I have to think a lot, even though I'm nower near, say, Sidestepper level of prudent inventory management. Taping everything would take more gigs than I can afford, at least with fraps, and I don't know of another way. And I really feel taping some of the stuff I there would provide interesting feeback for anyone.

Also, I have a very monotone, slow, melanchony voice with a pretty heavy slavic (to anglophones it's all russian) accent, and a tendency to go "hmmm" while I ponder stuff instead of sharing my dillemas out loud, so I have a feeling the possible public would be even less numerous than the number of people who can take on Gaan'Telet.

If I could deal with at least some of the issues I'd do one tommorow, or realisticaly next month, during hollidays.
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Re: Vicious Gaan'Telet Revisited

Postby Nandrew on Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:20 pm

It's crashing because more stuff happens. :P More dungeons, more tileset textures, more event scripts, more fighting, et cetera et cetera ;)

And since I've stepped quite neatly into this confounded verbal trap, I'll try honour some of the priority / easy to do adjustments this week. :P

Regarding the Let's Play video ... how about trying a new and different approach with it to tackle and work around the problems you've described? It'll help the video stand out more in the long run (which is kinda good marketing for us too :P ).
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Re: Vicious Gaan'Telet Revisited

Postby The Avatar on Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:35 pm

Use the Vamp if you want unusual. It works fairly well.
We made an expansion and it is awesome. Really, you should check it out, especially if you're looking for some extra challenge.

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Re: Vicious Gaan'Telet Revisited

Postby Lujo on Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:54 pm

Well, that would work regarding the issues, but I'm not sure if it would really work. I'm not all that great at the gameplay, I'm better at spotting broken and abusable stuff, or misusing stuff in beneficial ways. I think the bloodmage thing is the only thing that works right now, and even then I'd still be totaled by the damned bug.
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Re: Vicious Gaan'Telet Revisited

Postby Lujo on Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:58 am

Ok, I'm pondering ways to circumvent the issues.

1) The gig's problem. If there was a way to tape this stuff that didn't take so much space, I could probably do it. does anyone know one? I tried converting them on the fly (fraps saves them in 4.5 gig chunks even if you tape continuously), but my Sonny Vegas keeps crashing for some reason, and I can't try it on my wifes machine because she changed the password. I'm not sure she'd give it to me and let me install vegas on it just to tape an hour of me playing a videogame. I need a more cost efficent way to tape it, or I have to save the bigass replay chunks on an external drive (which I have, although not a very large one), then convert them elsewhere. I might be able to do this smoothly next month during the hollidays.

2) All that would probably be circumvented easily if I had a save state feature for Gaan'Telet, which is probably too much to ask for. I'd still have to convert the vids to redce their size for the upload, so I got to get vegas running and my "loads of free time" period is rapidly coming to an end. Still, in a month or so, I'll probably have both the time and the opportunity.

3) Well, I hope that mana burn is comming off Horatio in this update, because that would motivate me to no end. Doing a let's play of something which might turn out to be undoable on such a whimsical detail, if it involves so much effort, is simply not worth it. Especially since it will probably crash anyway. Having said that, I think I really want to do a VICIOUS Gaan'Telet run rather than anything else, because it's quite impossible to make a screenshot walkthrough, and if there's anything I'm actually good at in this game it's taking that place apart. It's also incredibly fun, and a rogulike in and off itself. Without having to account for manaburn on Horatio, I could probably do it every time, at least with a Bloodmage.

4) The accent... Well, I tried taping a few smaller levels to check myself out, and god, it's depressing. I'm an english major and I sound like a depressed Russian mob enforcer. A lowbrow one. I can't pronounce english phonemes for love or money, and every time I concentrate on the game rather than what I'm taping I tend to speak like a depressed russian mob enforcer trying to be really quiet while raiding a corporate compound. I'll have to work on that. I have the vocabulary of a colledge proffesor and the presentation of Ivan the Meat-Shield...
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