Vicious Gaan'Telet Revisited

All things Desktop Dungeons

Re: Vicious Gaan'Telet Revisited

Postby Lujo on Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:39 am

Ofc it is. Some classes would rely on the cheeze more, some less, some would be much easier than this. Come to think of it, I've been happily doing it with the old B2P, and the AA floor never really fazed me - I always hated the trolls and wraiths more. With no AA's and no mana burn on the boss, it feels so much easier than what I was used to (if you don't believe, just think that the only health potion I used was the one I converted). I also had one more Bloodswell to take if I wanted to, and I had at least a bunch more fireballs to go if I wanted to.

Ok, I got some thoughts on B2P and GETINDARE.

GETINDARE - Was always too damned efficent. It's a "free" physical attack for 3 mana, and now it also gives a random "free" attack every so often. It's not that I can't do without it, it's just that it's the most efficent "freebie" thing in the game, so once I find it I have 0 reasons not to roll with it. It's the chepaest source of First Strike and the only reliable source of dodge prediction, so yeah.

Also, the floor pool is such that there really aren't any floors where it doesn't work - having a first strike floor in there somewhere would change that.

B2P - It's the only thing which does what it does, and again, there isn't really any floor apart from the Sand Trolls which doesn't let you fireball stuff, with some floors (like Mysterea and the old AA floor) sort of mandating Fireballs. The only floor which actively discourages Fireballing is the Illusion floor, but having the "Retaliate: Fireball" be on the same guys who discourage melle and are a joke is a waste of a challenge.

Again, it's more about B2P being too good at what it does than me being particularly reliant on it. If you do pick it up, you don't really have a reason not to lean on it heavily.

Also, it's a godsend for the 2 lifesteal floors, which not only makes it a spike engine cog, but one of the "macro puzzle" pieces.


BYCEPPS Well, it can effectively reduce the bosses health by several 1000 HP, so a run where you have it saved untill the end has more chance of sucess than one where you don't. On the other hand, I've done way more runs where I didn't have it than the ones where I did - Martyr Wraps and Whurlgarble can add tons and tons of damage at the boss fight and allow you to kill the boss even through the resists.


Drac - If anyone was unsure what I was talking about when calling Drac "Broken Ole Drac" it's pretty obvious from the end fight vid. He's been tweaked, yes, but as you can see, he provides so much healing out of nowhere it's ridiculous. At least now you're not only capped by piety.

Also, if anyone thinks it's Gaan'Telet specific, think about it this way - most dungeons only face you off against topside + 2 floors worth of enemies, and bosses generally have nowhere near the tanking power of Horatio. So yeah, you don't get so many bloodpools, but you don't need nearly as much firepower out of Drac. This vid showed the MW + 30% resists + Drac for all practical purposes, and it leveled a, say, 4000 HP boss.
User avatar
Lujo
 
Posts: 2778
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:47 am

Re: Vicious Gaan'Telet Revisited

Postby Sidestepper on Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:36 am

What would you think if I hacked the server again and added a "secret passage" that connects the ground floor with Horatio's chamber, but can only be opened from the top? Alternatively, I guess we could just suggest it to the devs.
Sidestepper
 
Posts: 746
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:36 am

Re: Vicious Gaan'Telet Revisited

Postby Lujo on Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:41 am

Well, I'm happy enough all the floorhopping doesn't seem to crash the game anymore, but the whole floor hopping bussines gave me thought as well. I like the suggestion. Alternatively, the end floor could have a set of 8 portals which would teleport you to the floor linked to a god (color coded ofc, and the starting area could have a portal itself which could only be used once you activate it from below).

Also, a sand troll level bug just ended a very fun and missplay laden Sorcerer run at the penultimate floor. One of the fat fu****s spawned surrounded by wals and I was trying to optimize stuff by converting all the Goblin Bombs 2 floors above. Darnit.

EDIT: Hmmmmmm. I just did a Sorcerer run which ran out of fuel at floor 8. What's amazing was that it looked identical to the bugged one except I seemed to be doing a lot better - more piety, more damage, more resists, and then I just ran out of fuel. Difference? No GETINDARE. This is a bit worrying - the difference is startling, and as soon as the monster damage goes up having to tank a hit per monster adds up to... 5 (monster per floor) X 8-9 (number of floors) X N (average monster damage per hit, which can be quite a lot) X ??? (random dodges).

The cost-efficency of that thing is over 9000, for realz. In Gaan'Telet it provides more total damage on the way to Horatio than Drac does at Horatio and Drac is only really balanced in ther if you squint and turn your head sideways.
User avatar
Lujo
 
Posts: 2778
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:47 am

Re: Vicious Gaan'Telet Revisited

Postby Lujo on Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:35 pm

I have a run with no GETINDARE, BYCEPSS, Martyr Wraps or B2P taped, it's only 45 minutes long pre-edit, and I had floors of bloodpools left over, as well as 2 popcorn for bloodswell curse removal.

Too bad it's almost a haxxor, but it's still fun. Will be going online one of these days :)

EDIT: No, it's not a vampire run either :)
User avatar
Lujo
 
Posts: 2778
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:47 am

Re: Vicious Gaan'Telet Revisited

Postby The Avatar on Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:19 pm

Its actually a win?! With what class????

But yeah, GETINDARE was already one of my favorite glyphs before the dodge thing. By the end floors you're saving 100+ damage with 3 mana!
JakshdfFiha$#jaigb532i97fbnPKASN*@)sdjbau9a0)f+,Ahghs*hr)sk_sabdh^ujsbUA3{mvio/~dgffdsT^klndf,#ikon%(d

I speak chaos.
User avatar
The Avatar
 
Posts: 4437
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:52 pm
Location: Demonic Library

Re: Vicious Gaan'Telet Revisited

Postby Lujo on Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:33 am

Patience, grasshoppa! (Wow, I just grasshoppa'd the Avatar :lol:)

Anyway, it's rendering atm, the entire glourious half an hour of it, and I won't say what it is, I'll let you guys facepalm and roll your eyes when it's up.

Suffice to say I was a right moron and forgot to give props to Subanark for figuring it out before me all the while back, and the whole damned thing could be titled "Tribute to Subanark". It's not a Monk run, it's even sillier ;)
User avatar
Lujo
 
Posts: 2778
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:47 am

Re: Vicious Gaan'Telet Revisited

Postby The Avatar on Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:05 pm

Great! Just post a link when it's done! I must admit you've piqued my interest.

I bet I know what it is. Tribute to Subnark... Now I'm slightly worried...
JakshdfFiha$#jaigb532i97fbnPKASN*@)sdjbau9a0)f+,Ahghs*hr)sk_sabdh^ujsbUA3{mvio/~dgffdsT^klndf,#ikon%(d

I speak chaos.
User avatar
The Avatar
 
Posts: 4437
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:52 pm
Location: Demonic Library

Re: Vicious Gaan'Telet Revisited

Postby Darvin on Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:50 pm

having a first strike floor in there somewhere would change that.

First strike, mana burn, high physical resist, and death protection are the best way to flummox first strike.

BYCEPPS Well, it can effectively reduce the bosses health by several 1000 HP, so a run where you have it saved untill the end has more chance of sucess than one where you don't.

The incredible power of BYSSEPS is pretty much Gaan-Telet specific. The glyph excels in long slugfests against high-resist enemies, and Horatio is the mother of all high-resist enemies.

Drac - If anyone was unsure what I was talking about when calling Drac "Broken Ole Drac" it's pretty obvious from the end fight vid. He's been tweaked, yes, but as you can see, he provides so much healing out of nowhere it's ridiculous. At least now you're not only capped by piety.

To be entirely fair, Dracul has significantly more resources at his disposal on Gaan-Telet due to blood pools, which double both as piety and healing. He's still kick-ass in a regular dungeon, but not nearly to the same game-breaking proportions.

What would you think if I hacked the server again and added a "secret passage" that connects the ground floor with Horatio's chamber, but can only be opened from the top? Alternatively, I guess we could just suggest it to the devs.

An "elevator" that connects the surface floor to the deepest dungeon floor you've currently reached would be a great feature in Gaan-Telet.
User avatar
Darvin
 
Posts: 3063
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:44 am

Re: Vicious Gaan'Telet Revisited

Postby Lujo on Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:49 pm

Agree with all of what Darvin said above, and the value of Drac isn't strictly related to Gaan'Telet so much as to %res stacking. You don't need that much resources to take anything other than Horatio out, probably, but the interaction between %res and bloodswells was just too good. The changes feel nice so far, though, it was a niche "exploit" in any case. Except so good it made the niche better than the mainstream.

And the BYCEPSS comment was ment with Gaan'Telet in mind specificaly. The fact that it reduces magic resist as well as phys might've been something not everyone was aware of though.

And I'll be pondering First strike till I'm ready with a decent writeup.

Untill then, enjoy the roflcopter and pleas, don't take my tone in the vid too bad, I tried to film this 3 times, and first time I got killed by a bug, and the second time I got killed by a missclick after having to mellee 3 illusions at lvl3 to get to the orb. So I guess I was a bit testy...

And it's sort of a perfect storm of most of the stuff I ever ranted about as being unbalanced, with me happily pigging out on the cheeze.

Anyway, the vid is up... here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pw0KPO1 ... plpp_video

Also, there's LEMISI use involved.

EDIT: Keep in mind though that it wasn't nearly an optimal run by any means. Theres 5-10 things which could've upped my efficency and damage output, some significantly so. HALPMEH wasn't even mentioned, for one thing, just to name a non dungeon specific one.
User avatar
Lujo
 
Posts: 2778
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:47 am

Re: Vicious Gaan'Telet Revisited

Postby Darvin on Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:01 pm

The fact that it reduces magic resist as well as phys might've been something not everyone was aware of though.

Generally speaking, a character that can actually duke it out with a boss long enough for BYSSEPS to whittle away their resistances is probably so specialized in physical combat that he doesn't really want to use casting anyways. I mostly find it useful when trying to use APHEELSIK on Gobb, since after a few hits with BYSSEPS his chance to resist the poison is essentially gone.
User avatar
Darvin
 
Posts: 3063
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:44 am

PreviousNext

Return to Desktop Dungeons

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 7 guests