Sassy Mutations

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Re: Sassy Mutations

Postby booooooze on Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:22 am

Not to split hairs, but various iterations of BLUDTOPOWA have me converting at the beginning as well.

And Warlords pretty much can't live without CYDSTEP.
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Re: Sassy Mutations

Postby fall_ark on Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:57 am

booooooze wrote:Not to split hairs, but various iterations of BLUDTOPOWA have me converting at the beginning as well.

And Warlords pretty much can't live without CYDSTEP.


The Warlord thing is backwards. He's pretty much the only reason you don't convert CYDSTEP after maybe 2 or 3 uses. (Yeah yeah, exaggeration much. I know.) Without the glyph he'd still be better than pre-enhanced Fighter, there's just no reason at all not to capitalize on such a huge advantage.
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Re: Sassy Mutations

Postby Darvin on Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:14 am

I just realized that absolution is now preferring equal-level monsters over the lowest level available. Bit of an awkward change, makes using absolution as early as possible too critical. Way too high an opportunity cost to jump in and start absolving stuff as a 5th level character.
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Re: Sassy Mutations

Postby Nandrew on Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:28 am

Yeah, glyph stuff (sorry, just popping in briefly).

fall_ark wrote:Is his increasing impotence against undead work as intended or merely a byproduct though?


Intended. Maybe good, maybe not, but definitely intended. He's the polar opposite of the priest when it comes to dem zombies.

I think it's ... Idunno, thematically appropriate. The assassin's very good at making living, breathing stuff STOP with the whole living, breathing thing.

Was looking at Assassin Gold yesterday and wondering if it would be appropriate to let the boss adopt the Undead status, specifically because it's a clusterscrew (also as a way to replace the lifesteal buff, because *jeez* ... new incarnation definitely isn't doing this map any favours).

Darvin wrote:I just realized that absolution is now preferring equal-level monsters over the lowest level available. Bit of an awkward change, makes using absolution as early as possible too critical. Way too high an opportunity cost to jump in and start absolving stuff as a 5th level character.


Agreed. Monotheism, baby!

Maybe too cruel, maybe not.
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Re: Sassy Mutations

Postby Lujo on Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:04 pm

Does anyone know how exactly Drac got changed? And why, what was the deal?

Because when I do the math, he's still the exact same late game asspull Blodswell machine that I used to love and overuse, except now he makes other stuff I also know is powerfull make seem not worth the effort...

Apart from resist stacking, apparently, which he was allready notorious for in my book. There's nothing really preventing anyone from "Monking up" and going to town on anything with him now. If the change was ment to make him a hardocre health strats engine, then there porbably should be a "Reduces your max resists TO 33%" on Bloodswell, not to nerf one while nerfing the other.

How'd he get to be the way he is now?
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Re: Sassy Mutations

Postby Darvin on Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:56 pm

Maybe too cruel, maybe not.

Cruel to people who don't prep the god to begin with, and instead join his religion after legitimately finding him at higher levels. This does not discriminate between converting in or finding the altar late.

I typically play purist (or very close to purist) outside of vicious scenarios, so unless I go nuts with exploration at level 1 it's quite rare I'll have the opportunity to worship GG from the 1st level.
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Re: Sassy Mutations

Postby Nandrew on Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:54 pm

Darvin wrote:I typically play purist (or very close to purist) outside of vicious scenarios, so unless I go nuts with exploration at level 1 it's quite rare I'll have the opportunity to worship GG from the 1st level.


I don't know how much of a mitigating factor this is, but both LEMMISI and new B2P afford very high priority to altar targets.

Though admittedly the only reliable B2P prep is off someone who's quite anti-GG to start with ...

I changed Abs with the thought of extremely late converts, to be honest. When you're level 7 or up, similarly-leveled creatures aren't usually very good popcorn, so I reckon players may want to blast one or two rather than sacrificing even the smallest bit of harvestable XP
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Re: Sassy Mutations

Postby Darvin on Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:08 pm

I changed Abs with the thought of extremely late converts, to be honest. When you're level 7 or up, similarly-leveled creatures aren't usually very good popcorn, so I reckon players may want to blast one or two rather than sacrificing even the smallest bit of harvestable XP

When you're up at level 7 or so, the relative HP benefits are quite small to begin with and you're going to want to put your piety into protection. If you're still purchasing a long-term benefits boon like absolution, then you probably expect to gain a few levels and become able to take on those monsters.

Characters who begin GG worship around level 3 or 4 are a common reality, and due to piety constraints they probably won't finish absolving things to their satisfaction until they've leveled up twice. This change is a huge loss for them. Characters who convert into another religion to purchase long-term oriented boons and subsequently play with a near-term focus are extremely rare, largely relegated to Tikki Tooki or Dracul since both of them are massive piety farms in the end-game (unlike GG who is an end-game miser).

I feel like you're justifying a big hit to an average-case scenario with a modest buff to an extraordinarily niche scenario.
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Re: Sassy Mutations

Postby Sidestepper on Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:07 pm

Strongly agreeing with Darvin here. At level 7, I am looking at knocking off any surviving 7s 8s and 9s to prep the catapult. Losing 7+ xp for 4 hp is a terrible trade. As it is right now Absolution is only useful if you find GG at 1st level (or 2nd if you can snag an immediate Humility).

Extremely late converts don't want Absolution anyways. Even 40 health won't let you soak an extra hit from even the weakest boss. I'd much rather keep the xp and save my piety for Protection. What this change does is punish people who find GG at the middle levels, where 'middle' can begin as early as level 2.
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Re: Sassy Mutations

Postby Nandrew on Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:14 am

So the target priority should just be reversed again?

I'll make a note of that somewhere.
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