Gold strategies and a "You're an Idiot" button

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Re: Gold strategies and a "You're an Idiot" button

Postby Darvin on Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:24 pm

I can't for the life of me get the final hit on the level 3 snake in the 2nd Halfling puzzle - I must have tried 20+ times.

This puzzle is very finicky, and I'd actually agree that the devs should loosen it up a little.

For example, my Sorcerer cleared the dungeon and then there was a sub-dungeon with a dragon in it, it's immune to physical damage so I threw a fireball at it and died. It took me another 3 or 4 goes to clear that dungeon again, I've learnt to avoid the dragon but have absolutely no idea what it does.

That particular dragon has the ability to reflect fireballs. Very few monsters have this property. Try finding a non-violent way to pass this dragon, there's something very important on the other side.

With some of the glyphs, I've tried using them but couldn't tell what any of the secondary elements of it was doing (I think it's the swap-spots one, seems to have other benefits such as no retaliation but it didn't seem to do that for me).

The WEYTWUT (and WONAFYT) glyphs are a little weird. They slow the monster, which disables many types of special abilities until you next attack the them.

Also, if you manage to kill the monster in a single attack after using this glyph, you gain +1 bonus experience and the monster doesn't get to hit back. If you don't kill them, however, then they get to hit back normally.

Most of the tutorials (other than the starter pack) get kind of ridiculously obtuse - often involving tactics that are distinctly sub-optimal in actual dungeons. I had to look up solutions to quite a few of them, myself.

I'd agree with this sentiment; most of the puzzles seem designed for veterans to test their total mastery of the game, rather than beginners to push them in the direction of common techniques.

(Honestly, I still think Retaliate Fireball, or Counter Fireball as it used to be called, is a fairly silly and needlessly obtuse trait; 95% of the time it's functionally equivalent to magic immunity,

Well, you can still use other spells, such as PISORF, WEYTWUT, or APHEELSIK on such monsters without fear of retaliation, so it's not quite the same as magic immunity. Certainly one of the abilities to watch out for.
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Re: Gold strategies and a "You're an Idiot" button

Postby booooooze on Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:30 pm

subanark wrote:As far as "Your an Idiot" goes, TT is one of the worst offenders. Worshiping him without knowing what he likes and doesn't like is a sure way to have a failed game. Trying to worship him early on is also very difficult to do properly unless you really outgear the enemies and you aren't using that to go after much more power enemies.

I think he could use a "+1" piety per level below level 10 on initial worship (crafty youngster bonus) to give that extra flex room for early worship. Personally, I pick up TT at level 5 or 6 once I feel the need to kill lower level stuff to help round out my leveling.


I can only assume that someone (Lujo) has already responded to this...

Any god, if you don't know what they like/punish, can be trouble. But TT worship at level 2 is a given for me if I see him. Essentially you trade your popcorn for poison and dodge + some cash. Well worth it.
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Re: Gold strategies and a "You're an Idiot" button

Postby q 3 on Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:00 am

Darvin wrote:
(Honestly, I still think Retaliate Fireball, or Counter Fireball as it used to be called, is a fairly silly and needlessly obtuse trait; 95% of the time it's functionally equivalent to magic immunity,

Well, you can still use other spells, such as PISORF, WEYTWUT, or APHEELSIK on such monsters without fear of retaliation, so it's not quite the same as magic immunity. Certainly one of the abilities to watch out for.


Yeah, I should have said "fireball immunity." Except for a last fireball to kill the monster, which doesn't trigger retaliation (something that I didn't even know about until it recently came up as a puzzle solution, because it's such an odd case and fairly counterintuitive since that's not how retaliation works in any other situation), a fireball will nearly always be more expensive than it's worth against a Retaliate Fireball monster. Even in the rare case where your BURNDAYRAZ is stronger than your normal attack, it's almost never going to be so much stronger that it's worth spending 5-6 MP and taking a hit. And in those rare circumstances you're nearly always going to be better off just ignoring the monster, if you can. (It doesn't help that the trait is primarily associated with Illusions, who are probably the most overpowered non-boss monster in the game and rarely worth killing unless you're an Assassin.)

RE: Tikki Tooki, I do think that he'd be better if his piety for low-level kills were reduced, and he started giving piety for flawless kills again. Maybe even with a level multiplier. Something like 2 piety for a low-level kill and 2 piety for a flawless kill, with a piety bonus of 2 * the difference between your level and the monster's. Makes him slightly less broken on Assassins and slightly more favorable towards spellcasters and other clever players.
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Re: Gold strategies and a "You're an Idiot" button

Postby The Avatar on Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:23 am

TT could give piety for gold piles yet to be picked up. Or rather undiscovered, so people don't avoid them on purpose. That would be a nice little boost for low level characters.
JakshdfFiha$#jaigb532i97fbnPKASN*@)sdjbau9a0)f+,Ahghs*hr)sk_sabdh^ujsbUA3{mvio/~dgffdsT^klndf,#ikon%(d

I speak chaos.
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Re: Gold strategies and a "You're an Idiot" button

Postby phroggie on Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:42 am

My post did make it up! After posting I couldn't find it anywhere so figured I mustn't have posted right - so thanks to those that responded.

It's odd, because a negative of the game is having to go through those tough-love experiences, while a positive is knowing how to deal with them afterwards!

The puzzles are mostly non-newbie-tutorial-level-friendly, but it's great the game has that level of depth and complexity too.

I hadn't played for about a week, came back in and was trying to find the Witch in the East, which(!) I did and almost cleared the level and was doing really well until I made another simple stupid mistake - Fireball the Vampire so we both died. Then I re-did the level and ended up doing almost the same thing because I thought I had it all licked.

Really need that "idiot" button :)
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Re: Gold strategies and a "You're an Idiot" button

Postby Darvin on Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:26 pm

My post did make it up! After posting I couldn't find it anywhere so figured I mustn't have posted right - so thanks to those that responded.

First post needs moderator approval, after that you're cleared.

It's odd, because a negative of the game is having to go through those tough-love experiences, while a positive is knowing how to deal with them afterwards!

There is no triumph without adversity. It's very hard to balance that legitimately, but I think DD does a pretty good job of it.

Fireball the Vampire so we both died. Then I re-did the level and ended up doing almost the same thing because I thought I had it all licked.

Weird technicality: fireballs technically count as first strikes, so if you kill him with the fireball he doesn't get to hit back.

For the most part, though, you're best off converting the fireball prior to the boss battle here.
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Re: Gold strategies and a "You're an Idiot" button

Postby FDru on Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:14 pm

The trick to Hexx Ruins is to find Earthmother and then enjoy your endless piety farm and your free win.

Labyrinth is one of the hardest, IMO.
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Re: Gold strategies and a "You're an Idiot" button

Postby Darvin on Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:02 pm

Labyrinth is one of the hardest, IMO.

As a Binlor follower I must ask, what labyrinth?
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Re: Gold strategies and a "You're an Idiot" button

Postby Mister Bile on Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:52 am

Darvin wrote:As a Binlor follower I must ask, what labyrinth?


Hah!

Yup. I'm just posting to say that I chuckled at that.
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