Elite items

[Lujo]

Ok, the "locker space" thread ressurection brought up some questions I never posted about. In essence, I've completely ignored the elite items on my last few profiles. Going so far as not even being aware they exist for all practical purposes, and never taking any of them into account when even thinking about the game. It's true.

Now, I never really posted about this because it was one thing I always though that accounted for my playstyle more than anything objective. Since I never saw anyone complain about it in the same way I would, I thought that they were a part of the game I just never got into.

But since my "i never use Pactmaker except for consensus" comment resounded a bit (and inspired a thread and change and stuff), here goes nothing...

Simply put - the cost/effect of prepping them doesn't make them worth it for me. They ussually cost as much gold as 2-3 regular items and don't really justify getting myself locked out of other options. And the only reason to take the prep is to increse your chance of finding the one you want. If you can locker the one you want, you get the same effect for no in-dungeon gold loss AND without muddying up your pool.

And they can't seem to beat any non-Elite items for locker space in my game. People ARE using Yendor and Zot, and I probably could find space for one of them, but still. I'll list them, but I'm not even sure I know all of them.



Yendor - nice effect, but unless lockered it's gold price locks me out of any other item purchases.
Zot - hmmm, I'm not even happy with it's effect, especialy as I'm not sure if it stacks with Whoopaz (which would let you reduce any monster to very little hp in just one hit). I'd rather prep Whoopaz and a strategy cornerstone than it, and I'd never buy it.
Guitar - has cool flavour, but it's effectively weaker than Tiki's Edge for all I know.
Gauntlets - are nice, but for an upgraded Troll Heart, I'm not sure it's worth paying more than double gold, especially as the "upgrade" removes some of Troll Hearts CP and inventory management appeal
Boots - I like, but having the only shop item with any magic protection I can name in my sleep be an Elite item and cost this much, well, me no likey. I would consider lockering them, though.
Kegs - Well, I'm not much into potion strats, but if I remember correctly their price isn't too prohibitive. I wouldn't know since I can't tell when was the last time I puchased one. They do have good CP though, right?


So, I can sort of see some of them being appealing with the translocation scroll (prepping that nad Elite item shop prep cuts you off from other stuff and a bunch of money). Prepping any seal except the compression one never seems instintibly sensible to me, and I've been calamoring about making the compression seal more obtainable because I honestly feel one per dungeon is not enough for me, personaly. I've been making all sorts of suggestions for upping the general availability of seals just because of wanting more compressions seals. So the translocation + elite never ever seem like it would be worth it.

What am I not seeing? What are peopes thoughts on this? Noone's discussing it, and I feel there IS a lot to discuss, or at least insight to share... I only have insight on how to play the game without them, though...

[Nandrew]

I sometimes go with the Elite prep. I started taking this approach a little while back (round about when I fixed the Dwarven Gauntlets misunderstanding and one or two other things). Matter of fact, I'm surprised that -- as a regular TT worshipper -- you *don't*.

Yeah, you need gold out the ass for it to work. But that's basically the point. And yes, some of these items are shaky on their own. But the key lies in their synergy as a "full unit" and their spawning reliability when you take Elite in the first place.

I think the other devs are going to roll their eyes when they realise I'm encouraging this thread (srsly dude, that insistent Tikki/poison spam was getting to be a bit of a concern at one point), but ... uh ... goddamn, I've been *waiting* for someone to bring up this topic. I have about a million billionty things to say about it.

Not to brag, but I can pull the baddest-ass goldmongering strats while hardly breaking a sweat. Without Tinker. *And* I could juggle it with a considerable Tikki piety fund if I had to (though I will always be a diehard agnostic -- extra altar prep all the way).

So c'mon! Where's all the goldmongers out there? I can't be alone in this. Hell, I throw down the gauntlet. People need to start breaking the in-dungeon money system again and tell us all about it.

[Darvin]

[Blovski]

[Nandrew]

[Nandrew]

Also, the Wicked Guitar feeds hard (and I mean SUPER HARD) into 3 of the 4 spawnable secret dungeons (at least, I think it has extremely favourable results with Glenrick -- though admittedly this is just in theory because I've not actually hit that combo yet).

And it's just ... well, *fantastic* as a sparring partner for Tikki. Or Binlor. Or Earthmother. Or Glowing Guardian. And it doesn't exactly screw up any other god's playstyles.

Okay, sorry, shutting up about guitars now.

[Nandrew]

(Hey, you know what else makes an early-game guitarist's life easier? Smuggler's Den)

[Darvin]

I love the Wicked Guitar and wanted desperately to find a good reason to keep it lockered, but it's a royal pain if you're already uncovered a high level (8 or 9) monster since you'll end up promoting that monster long before you can attempt to use the guitar mid-battle. It's one of the most fun items in the game, but I feel it's impractical for vicious scenarios (possible exception for Naga City)

[Sidestepper]

The truth is that I view most of the Elite items as unwanted pollution and wouldn't unlock them at all except for the fact that doing so also gives me 2 more shops so in the end the dilution effect mostly cancels out. Try knocking 5 gold off of the Elven Boots and the Dwarven Gauntlets for starters and lets see how that works out.

[fall_ark]

Just want to chime in and say that the "problem" (not that big a problem in itself, I reckon) is that the current gold limit means working your socks off for one Elite item is mostly not worth it than just buying two generic shop items(i.e. Hobbler's End spawns) and a potion. Tikki Tooki and secret money dungeon provides so great an advantage that they often alter the run completely. It's not something you can predict or always choose, so mostly you go with Translocation+Elite shop, which limits its attractiveness.

The old 50 gold cap isn't that much a problem because you still have to manage your inventory, which is already very tight.

I found Kegs very useful though. Normally I'm obsessed with getting Parched, but it's a better end-game investment than most and easily affordable with Boss gold. Meanwhile Gauntlets and Boots are better lockered (I lockered Yendor but haven't used it for a while, would locker Gauntlets if there's more space).