Random notes while playing the Beta so far (spoilers)

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Re: Random notes while playing the Beta so far (spoilers)

Postby PeaceChaser on Tue Aug 02, 2011 2:23 pm

dislekcia wrote:This is the sort of stuff we're having the beta to cover. Race unlocks not telling you what you're going to get is a big one, seems far too obvious for us to have actually straight-out missed... But we did ;)


I liked the mystery of not knowing what class you were going to unlock next in the original. My personal opinion is that you shouldn't get more than a hint about what's next.
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Re: Random notes while playing the Beta so far (spoilers)

Postby Herborist on Tue Aug 02, 2011 2:44 pm

I realized early on that on big screens, the text below items/glyphs is distorted. I don't know if they could do much about it in this beta, but it'd be nice if you guys could put that on the to-do list for the final version.

metroid composite wrote:Speaking of those four dungeons, I've only played Northern Desert so far, but...at a glance, I suspect it's 120% stat enemies, and it feels like it might have fewer enemies than normal. I don't know if this is meant to be a challenge dungeon, but it feels...harder than expected given what I have unlocked.


This is exactly what I feel like. The game got harder, faster than its predecessor. Lots of times I'll run out of enemies for no reason, or I'll run across a shop selling a scroll that I still have no idea what it does.
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Re: Random notes while playing the Beta so far (spoilers)

Postby dislekcia on Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:44 pm

aguydude wrote:My own random notes:

1. This was mentioned during the last release, but it's kind of frustrating that there is no way (or not one that I could figure out) to mouse-over the enemy information. Maybe just have an extra row of tabs for any adjacent enemies?

2. There is no obvious way to cancel a spell in mid-cast, though there are non-obvious ways to do so.

3. Glowing Guardian's Humility boon is broken. The initial potion supply is enough to give a starting piety boost, and constant hits of humility mean a player will end up constantly leveling up (and gaining piety for courage in the process). Cheap level-ups more than offsets it slow regeneration, especially with how easy it is to earn piety. Hitting 100 piety is rather easy, but Enlightenment isn't even that exciting when your character is effectively level 15+ and happily getting easy healing via protection. Maybe if its cost increased by 5 each use it would be less broken...but even then Glowing Guardian would probably still be way overpowered.

4. Switching between upgrading the castle and preparing to enter a dungeon was confusing the first time it happened.

5. Seeing items that can be put into lockers while preparing to enter a dungeon is very counterintuitive.

6. It's very annoying that I cannot see my item choices for a dungeon roll-out until I click on a specific building.

7. I wish I could see if a slot was magical, physical, or both even when an item was in it.


1. You mean you want to get MORE info out of enemies? What would you like to know?

2. Good point. We should probably make clicking the glyph again cancel it while the spell is active, or pop up a "cancel cast" button somewhere.

3. Fixed.

4. Granted, still not final UI.

5. It was worse before - you had a whole sell interaction stage with the kingdom. It was bad :(

6. Would you rather see all the options the same way all a building's classes are shown? Might have some space problems later, particularly the Witch.

7. Border colour isn't intuitive enough? Noted.
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Re: Random notes while playing the Beta so far (spoilers)

Postby dislekcia on Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:53 pm

Blunglin wrote:Hey this part of game dev is easy, complaining about the hard work of others!

The tutorial was hilarious! However, I wanted the ability to kill myself by attacking a monster after being warned, and start over... because it would have been even more hilarious.


I convinced Nandrew to put that in just before release after watching Jenova Chen gleefully die to the Meat Man over and over at E3. That sort of thing bruises the ego... Maybe we should make it a check-box so that you can go "I know what I'm doing" and then die like a boss.

Blunglin wrote:I sorely miss being able to move with the arrow keys, as I have repetitive stress injury and a hard luck story. Also, I'd like to be able to hit ENTER as an alternative to SPACE to confirm, as I dislike learning new things.


Enter is good. Arrow keys are trickier. We will probably put them in, but they're a serious headache for information display.

Blunglin wrote:SPACE does not trigger the “Exit” button in a post-dungeon score screen as expected. Since the Exit button has the same appearance as the previous buttons that accepted SPACE to confirm, I expect the Exit button to accept SPACE to confirm, even if I skip through my beloved score screen.


We felt that people might exit accidentally if space worked the same on exit panels, the alpha had huge problems with accidental quits (basically an accidental quit is way worse than a forced click). Eventually the button will be different to denote this. Probably another thing we could make a checkbox.

Blunglin wrote:It would be great if I could alt-tab out of full screen, then alt-tab back to it, instead of having the game revert to windowed.


Didn't know this happened, will see if we can make sure the state returns properly.

Blunglin wrote:The loading screen and menu buttons could use some love from an artist. Or, a big sticker that reads “FINAL ART”


Surely you mean "NOT FINAL ART" ;)

Blunglin wrote:It would be nice if the village screen was accompanied by some ambient sounds: birds, water flowing, hammers hitting anvils, drunken yelling, etc.


Will be happening later.

Blunglin wrote:I felt something sink in my stomach when I read my first QUEST COMPLETE. Am I in for another WoW or Puzzle Quest or whatever RPG grindfest? I don’t mind, as long as you don’t tell me with QUEST COMPLETE.


Purposely avoiding grindfest quests. What's so toxic about the words "quest complete"? You did just complete a quest after all...

Blunglin wrote:I converted a glyph when I had enough to go to the next conversion level, but I have no idea what I gained from this. It would be nice to see something light up or animate to clue me in.


Again, animations will happen here later.

Blunglin wrote:When I beat the level 5 goat in tutorial 4, the screen flashed white. This seemed like a very interesting visual idea, but was unfinished, and needed some effects to sell it.


There's a sound effect coming for boss kills. Did you not get particles as well, or is that not what you meant by effect?

Blunglin wrote:The blood pools and footprints on the ground in the dungeon look like they could use some additional love from an artist, maybe some additional shading?


Footprints have been changed. Blood pools and shading don't go together as they're actually constructed at random from lots of smaller blood decals.

Blunglin wrote:It would be nice if the black squares animated as they disappeared, or otherwise had some additional artist love. Since this is a central mechanic that really makes this game, I would love to see it be more appealing visually.


Yes, it would be ;) Again, coming later.
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Re: Random notes while playing the Beta so far (spoilers)

Postby dislekcia on Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:57 pm

MaxEd wrote:A few things that bug me:

1) On my big monitor, everything looks a bit small, and there is no way to scale it, like it was possible in Alpha. I understand that this is a limitation of Unity, but can't it be worked around somehow? I won't mind a little scaling artefacts, if only everything would be BIGGER!


You can go to fullscreen via the game menu (top right of game window, button). You can also scale everything in better browsers using browser zoom (CTRL + mousewheel in FF).

MaxEd wrote:2) Buttons placement and look on the main Kingdom screen reeks of amateur UI design :( It's just... Wrong, really. Especially when a new button appears. I really hope this isn't final, it can really use more polish.


Beta interface, not final in the slightest. Done so that we can change entire Kingdom without attachment, means better balance. Also allows us to build proper UI by tracking player activity on current one. No idea why more people don't do this in betas, probably because everyone complains about the shitty art ;)

MaxEd wrote:3) I had a small, but important problem with dungeon size: you can't gauge it at all! If this is intentional, this is a bad decision. If it is not - please, draw a border around dungeon, so player can see how many squares he has left until he hits the wall.


Understood. This has been something we've wanted to fix since the first demos at GDC, we'll get there.

MaxEd wrote:4) Where do I turn sound off?


Same menu that lets you fullscreen. Sorry that the volume option isn't a slider at the moment, sounds were late to the party. Will get better.

MaxEd wrote:These are things that irked me at the first glance, everything else seems not too bad so far. Although I must say that enabling new races/classes via special feats, like in Alpha, was more satisfying than buying them. You felt you really were getting awards for good performance, not just for persistence.


You'll still get certain classes via special quests. Alchemist isn't in yet ;)
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Re: Random notes while playing the Beta so far (spoilers)

Postby dislekcia on Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:00 am

Carl wrote:A puzzle editor would be awesome! That way users could create puzzle situations for other users, thereby generating infinite content :P

Another issue with puzzles is the toss-up between regen and randomness. By giving regen you are blocking out tiles that the player then doesn't know, creating possible randomness in exploration. To combat this I think that puzzles should be able to include regen by 'revealing' unexplored regen blocks (possibly as a slightly duller version of actuals). That way the playere can gain regen by revealing these blocks in the usual way while still knowing exactly how the map is laid out, if you know what I mean. The use of regen will definitely add a lot of complexity to the puzzles. (p.s. not sure if this is actually done in later puzzles, I've only completed the first puzzle pack).


We have a really bad editor in-house. It makes no sense... More ideas for puzzles aren't bad though. Maybe after final release, there's a ton of stuff to do before then (I'm sure you'll agree there).
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Re: Random notes while playing the Beta so far (spoilers)

Postby pjw on Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:11 am

dislekcia wrote:We have a really bad editor in-house. It makes no sense... More ideas for puzzles aren't bad though. Maybe after final release, there's a ton of stuff to do before then (I'm sure you'll agree there).
Just have to add another vote for this (while realizing that it's much lower priority than the rest of the game and probably won't happen for a while).

It's an incredible way to keep interest in a game fresh without having to do all the work yourself. ;) The "Trackmania" series of games is a good example; there are literally hundreds of thousands of user-made tracks...
Making games is like making hotdogs - its messy, scary, and not at all like enjoying the end product. -Sigma-X
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Re: Random notes while playing the Beta so far (spoilers)

Postby 232 on Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:04 am

This is more of a general note, but my internet connection apparently isn't the best, and at the end of some dungeons (it seems to be related to how long I've been in the dungeon) after the stats page it says it can't establish a connection to the server and doesn't save that dungeon. That means I still don't have the GG even after trying 5 times. I'm not sure how you'll handle saving in the final version, but I hope that this doesn't happen.

Side note: I'm not entirely sure what's wrong with my internet connection, as multiple downloads and other programs requiring internet access have never said I've got connection problems before, after or during the times I've been playing.
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Re: Random notes while playing the Beta so far (spoilers)

Postby Carl on Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:26 am

dislekcia wrote:
aguydude wrote:My own random notes:

7. I wish I could see if a slot was magical, physical, or both even when an item was in it.




7. Border colour isn't intuitive enough? Noted.


Totally agree! Border colour isn't nearly clear enough. I usually don't have any idea of my slot situation, often just picking up stuff and 'seeing if it will go in'. Maybe a MUCH clearer colouration or even some sort of separation of physical, magical and both.
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Re: Random notes while playing the Beta so far (spoilers)

Postby Zalminen on Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:47 pm

dislekcia wrote:
aguydude wrote:My own random notes:
1. This was mentioned during the last release, but it's kind of frustrating that there is no way (or not one that I could figure out) to mouse-over the enemy information. Maybe just have an extra row of tabs for any adjacent enemies?

1. You mean you want to get MORE info out of enemies? What would you like to know?


Well, the first time I wanted to do a mouse-over was to check what on earth does "Coward" actually mean.
Sure, it was pretty obvious after I attacked but there really should be some way of quickly checking stuff like that.
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